"Then God said, 'Let US make man in OUR image, and in OUR likeness'"

I pulled your last paragraph here for this balance reply with INTENT my Friend.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

The sumerians didn't invent these stories. They may have invented the languages they were written in, many of whose words we believe they worshipped as gods today. Did you know that in ancient Egyptian the word for the Sun is Ra. Just like children draw smiley faces on the sun in their drawings today, and artists make it even more beautiful than it is, and so on, the ancient Egyptians did so too. For the savages, their scientifically esoteric art was and is still seen as pagan sun worship, but when you look deeper, there has always been monotheistic referances in all ancient religions. Time only turnd words into gods and people forget what the symbols mean. When people come along claiming descendance from this God, the pantheons develop.

I follow your thought here, and tend to agree with exception to the last line. It has been my assertion all along, GOD and the Worship of GOD has always been. This is what I have been typing about now with you for a day or more. I call him GOD. I already noted how he refered to himself to Moses earlier.

These Pantheons you assert to misunderstanding and ignorance of the populace, are not originating from these sources. They are based upon a much earlier understanding of "LORE" passed down from their forefathers, and at somepoint where reflective of Truths apposed to what we now precieve as fables.

Thoth wrote about this kind of decay in his Apocalypse or Lament. And to make it even worse, the prophet Thoth is even refered to as a pagan god these days. We are more savage and pagan than the old Babylonians. We simply don't understand.

And in this WE BOTH AGREE.

Strange though, your disregard the following remarks about what we can learn from the Book of Enoch, yet we both accept his teachings as they applied to the Egyptians.

The Enochian tradition dates back to a few hundred years BC. Good try. Enoch lived about 5000+ years ago, but he didn't write those books........In other words, not very old compared with the Vedas, Gilgamesh or for that matter the Enuma Elisj.

Actually, if my DEAR friend Byrd was to partake in this conversation, the terms "Channeled" and "MYSTIC" may well also enter the discussion.

You are aware of who Enoch is/was are you not? Thoth & Hermes = Enoch

Sorry to say, the Bible is a rather modern compilation of much older traditional religious epics and dramas, works of science and history and so on...... Biblical arcaeology and so on before you post what you will later in life recognice as nonsense. I mean no harm, it's a good advise, and I speak from quite a bit of experience.

In closing I have a few things to express.

1st, I am no Lady.
2nd, You have more than a bit of experience, and seem well versed in many texts, and it is for these reasons I have pressed a conversation to look at some "Out of the Box" thoughts which tend not to be considered, simply due to the "Evidence" you bring forth.
3rd, If I await a "Later in Life" period of reflection to ponder such things, I would have wasted the first 50 some odd years aquiring, reading and reviewing Articles, Reviews, Texts, and Writings, that led me to have these things to ponder.

Actually I am perfectly fine if I am the only person within ATS that may have such thoughts and views. It just goes with the subject matter, and frankly, what I should expect. I'll leave with a quote.

Ezekiel 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Looks to me that the only things we really disagree on, is the timetable. I agree that Enoch is probably identical with Thoth and Hermes, but the "Enochian tradition" isn't really that old, it started a few hundred year BC and the books, belong to the Messianic tradition born at around the same time, it grew forth after the Babylonian captivity. According to Hebrew tradition Enoch (or Hermes if you like) was the first person on Earth to learn how to read and write, so instead of looking at books written a few centuries BC in a modern language written to honour Enoch who lived thousands of years earlier, we need to go further back, and search for the first forms of written language. Which brings us to the first civilisations, those of Egypt (Hieroglyphs), Sumer (Cuneiform) and Indus (Sanskrit). Cuneiform is not very well suited to write texts, it's more a language of calculation and simple math, adding and subtracting. The Egyptian glyphs together with their numbers works for both, but since the glyphs are very complicated, their systems of writing was very limited too, but their systems for calculating advanced math using specially designed tools (as found in Freemason lore) and works perfectly for calculation and especially geometry. Sanskrit, which I believe was the language of Cain and his descendants is the perfect language for writing texts with. Being one of the earliest forms of Indo-European written language I believe the language to be as old as the early Semitic and Hamitic, and the Sumerian languages, and I would also like to bring forth Tibetan which may predate them all. But I can only speak as a layman here, since I haven't yet started my Linguistic studies at university level, I'll have to wait another year until I get started with this. Anyway, I believe original religion was not based on worship, but rather a combination of philosophy and science. So the task would be to find out which languages would apply best to these things. In philosophy we'd need a language like Sanskrit or Tibetan. For math, the language of science we'd need a language which would allow the ancients to calculate and design formulas and geometry etc. Like ancient Hamitic. And still we are not with the source of language, pre-Flood language, but I believe Egyptian Hamitic and the Eastern Indo-European Tibetan and Sanskrit may be closer to the sources than Semitic for instance. Ancient Semitic were like runes, and probably the Norse runes were based on much the same system as ancient Hebrew and Arabic etc. Not very well suited for either tasks I have mentioned, but a golden middleway, somewhere in between, and compared to the others, rather simple to learn and use. But as I said the time table given varies from civilisation to civilisation, and the forrunners of all these languages may have been closer to how God would have written. And seeing how everything God has created is beautiful both in it's looks, functionality, rationality, veratility and so on, so we are probably looking at a system of writing closely resembling the ancient Tibetan and Sanskrit languages, though these languages possibly aren't as old as one would expect them to be. And I blieve that the geometric tools of the ancient Egyptians, predating Ham, the Brother of Sem and son of Noah. Anyway, this will be my quest in the future and perhaps for the rest of my miserable life

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Looks to me that the only things we really disagree on, is the timetable.

You see, we have TWO seperate points of view, that in reality are based upon the same foundations. This is what I had been striving to bring forth, and kudos to you.

As I noted earlier, there wasn't very much you presented that surprised or seemed new, in respects to this discussion.

YOUR views about what you presented where enlightening, and I will say it again.

YOU ARE WELL VERSED IN VARIOUS TEXTS MY FRIEND. Better than most within ATS.

I agree that Enoch is probably identical with Thoth and Hermes........... and search for the first forms of written language.

While I also share you views about Enoch as such, I also have some "Stranger" views you either overlooked or left out due to the "Nature" of these things.

Many get asked, "If you could go back in History and meet someone of History, who would you choose?"

My response would be Enoch.

Which brings us to the first civilisations, those of Egypt (Hieroglyphs), Sumer (Cuneiform) and Indus (Sanskrit). Cuneiform is not very well suited to write texts, it's more a language of calculation and simple math, adding and subtracting............ Sanskrit, which I believe was the language of Cain and his descendants is the perfect language for writing texts with. Being one of the earliest forms of Indo-European written language I believe the language to be as old as the early Semitic and Hamitic, and the Sumerian languages,

This is a surprising reply, and one of interest.

The Matter of Cain and his "Family" is one that I do appreciate, and like to research/review as time premits, and I am taken back a bit by your comment, though it also is temping to consider.

I am sure you know of my post and my personal view places these decendants of Cain within the regions we generally refer to as Thrace, The Black Sea, The Steppes, and Urals. The "PEOPLES" that Originated within this region, were always FAR SUPERIOR to all of their neighbours. Metalurgy, Metalsmithing, Herdsmanship, Horsemanship, Weapons Craft, and Weapons Use are some of the examples I have noted over time.

Now, I am not completely verse in the Sanskrit and have only a breif introduction to these texts. I KNOW of the Vedic Prophesies, and how today, they are expected to effect the United States and their African President. I also have reviewed some of the more Cosmic Teachings about celestial warfare of gods and deities, but aside from this, I should have no comment to express my views based on limited study of these.

But I noted, while reviewing one of the previous responses you offered about the Sanskrit and Vedic, and I recall reading the following.

Rigveda
Main article: Rigveda
The Rigveda Samhita is the oldest extant Indic text.[32] It is a collection of 1,028 Vedic Sanskrit hymns and 10,600 verses in all, organized into ten books (Sanskrit: mandalas).[33] ...........................deriving from the Proto-Indo-Iranian times, often associated with the Andronovo culture; the earliest horse-drawn chariots were found at Andronovo sites in the Sintashta-Petrovka cultural area near the Ural Mountains and date to ca. 2000 BCE.[36]

Wiki Link
Whether there is a connection or not, I found your comment insightful, and one which will provoke further study upon. Thanks for this.

And I blieve that the geometric tools of the ancient Egyptians, predating Ham, the Brother of Sem and son of Noah. Anyway, this will be my quest in the future and perhaps for the rest of my miserable life

Well GODspeed on the Quest set forth for you.

I would offer this for a consideration.

Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Remember, Egypt, as expressed by the Snake Hawass, and in general by Egyptologists, is nothing close to what they suggest. It has a far Richer and Higher origin than they could ever comprehend. GOD did give them Enoch afterall.

Well, I look forward to "DISCUSSING" things with you again in the future. Your thoughts and expressions of these, allow all the opportunity to learn, if they see fit to utilize study of what you are explaining. Something we should always be striving to do.

Have a Good Evening

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by silverstreak


The elohim created humankind, a council of gods led by Yahweh, not a singular almighty deity. They created us for purposes of slavery. Satan is the true savior of humankind, and by worshiping Him, our eyes are opened.

First off, thank you for all your kind and encurraging words *blushes*

Originally posted by Shane
While I also share you views about Enoch as such, I also have some "Stranger" views you either overlooked or left out due to the "Nature" of these things.

Well, I thought that instead of derailing this thread into a discussion over Enoch, I left it there. Though Enoch is an extremely interesting character, which fascinates me dearly, I couldn't see how it would be relevant to the subject of this thread. Nothing else. Feel free to u2u me or invite me to any thread you'd make on the subject, since I'd love to pick up Enoch again, since it's been a while since I looked into the material.

Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

And this is one of my favorite quotes from the Tanakh. The chapter it rests in is one of the most importing chapters in the whole Bible in my opinion, showing how God's plan involves more people and how God can be found in many different religious traditions under different names and such. I remember when I first learned about the Egyptian creator god Hu-Hu, and my initial thought was that this god was indeed one and the same as JHVH Elohim.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
I remember when I first learned about the Egyptian creator god Hu-Hu, and my initial thought was that this god was indeed one and the same as JHVH Elohim.

I think you are getting the actual subject matter in prespective my Friend.

Excellent.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Indeed, and the reason why there is a concept of majesty pluralis, may simply be that there is One God, but he is the god of all nations and tribes etc. carrying a vast amount of names relative to even more religions, so to Say God is only Jahveh, and not Hu, Ashur, Odin or God, simply isn't correct. For God has many names and is worshipped in many different ways, known by different people in a vast amount of different traditions and religious concepts. Hence his name is plural. Makes sense to me atleast..... God is what you make of him, a universal concept every religion could explain using different names and words, but at the bottom line, he is as impossible to discribe and comprehend as the concept of infinity and eternity. We can only trust what we have understood from the religious texts and traditions we have chosen to believe in. To a mathmatican he might be X the "unknown" who can be calculated using a formula. To a Christian Theologist, he would be simply the God of the Bible. To a Hinduist, he might be Brahma or Ganesha or Krsna depending on which god the believer identifies him with. To a linguist he might be the first Utterance or a simple Word putting all the other words in context, like the verb to be, since all sentances include this word either literally or in context (you can always rewrite any sentance where the verb is part of the sentance) and so on. The question remains: Why are we all even discussing these thngs?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


I understand what you are meaning, but caution, not all are GOD, (using my Reference/Name for just arguement sake).

But yes, at one time we would have followed a form of worship or praise or rites, (however one would wish to describe these), directed towards GOD, and it would have been basically a universal type of occurance.

What took place from there leaves us with the situation as we understand it today. A confusion of sectisms of deity and god/goddess worship of enities not truthfully entitled to the elevated as such.

Now, I am not suggesting that when one stood with his followers, there would not be reasons for those followers to believe they (the entities) where gods or goddesses or deities worthy of praise and such. They certainly are not of earth, and most definately are super-natural in presentation. It is just they where not created for this. They where to be as watchers, not minglers.

But I know, from my perspective that I would tend to agree with them in one respect. The Daughters of Man have tended to be quite a piece of work, and in some cases, works of Art that could make anything desirerous enough to leave his place of habitation.

So you ask, Why are we discussing this?

Well, this evolved from the basic question, and became an elaborated discussion with an aim, from my perspective. We need to understand GOD, (If you may allow me) has some very impressive Son's and in some cases, they too, became gods and deities in the past.

There is a collectiveness expressed with the Recreation Account of Genesis Chapter 1, and in other places from time to time. We have in some cases, Messengers of GOD, speaking as instructed by GOD, as GOD. Mary, Elizabeth, Lot, and Noah had such visitors for examples.

This is where the US, in let "US" create man in our Image, comes from.

Of course, from the prespective of the Hebrew, (not only the Jew) and later, the Christain, we have our understanding based within the Scriptural accounts, whereas our Cousins, (the descendants of Ishmael), have theirs based within the Koran.

In some cases, we can find this elsewhere, but yes, study of these teachings would be best, prior to assessing opinion one way or another.

Having spent periods of time considering the Babylonian, and Sumerian, I find way to many "gods" are involved, and that ultimately even these have some expressive remarks that point to a single father figure/entity that is responsible for "creation" or other feats as our Bible suggests. As is the case with Baal/Marduk. Both claim to be gods, but acknowledge another far superior Father Figure.

I have done a bit of researching/reviewing Greek and Roman teachings in respects to the Pantheon of Gods and again, there is direction offered that they have a Heavenly Father Figure far and above themselves.

To me, this suggests onething can be certain. Another Superior Figurehead exists and has abilities that exceed the possible of the Fallen.

Have a good day Neo

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Well, all of these religions I have mentioned originates to a few pretty remarkable stories written down and used as part of a ritual play at new year, in along the rivers of Mesopotamia maybe as ealy as 2700 BC. Written in Akkadian, or Assyro-Babylonian, it is an Afro-Asiatic Semittic language recorded in Cuneiform. The oldest known written religious text is found on the inner walls of a series of pyramids in Saqqarah, Egypt.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but check out this site:

www.chronicleproject.org

It seems that a group of Hebrew scholars and linguists have reconstructed the original form of the Hebrew language, which should have only 22 characters, and is totally self-correcting. They have begun translating the original books of the Torah, and the results are quite interesting. Might answer a few questions about the afore mentioned plurality!

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Katie
You can take a look at this site as they have a way of explaining some of your questions. Also remember the word dinosaur was a word invented by man.

When God said he created all creatures that meant all.

In your previous posts, you said that God killed all the animals that could talk. You also showed me in Josephus's writings that at one time ALL living creatures had the same language. Now, since god saved some animals, along with Noah, why don't the animals still talk?

Second, I responded to a post of yours where you asked me, "Where in the Bible does it talk about an ice age...." Then I turned the tables on you and said, "Where in the Bible does it say all animals talk?" What did you do? You said, "There are other books besides the Bible, the Bible was put together by man." Then you gave me a long quote from Josephus with tons of info that is found nowhere in the Bible. So where did he get that info?

Wtf? Then don't use the Bible as the only reference, ever, if you're going to say that there are other books besides the bible! Wow. If you had any credibility with me, it just went POOF.



[edit on 18-4-2010 by Hydroman]

You asked me questions and I gave you answers and provided links. You are to lazy to study history yourself, so you know nothing. Its very clear in your posts that you are not here to learn anything about God. All you do is poke fun at God. Do not ask me anymore questions. Can you comprehend that much? You get a RED FLAG from me.

reply to post by dontaskme


The link you posted is to a film production company

Originally posted by Katie

You asked me questions and I gave you answers and provided links. You are to lazy to study history yourself, so you know nothing. Its very clear in your posts that you are not here to learn anything about God. All you do is poke fun at God. Do not ask me anymore questions. Can you comprehend that much? You get a RED FLAG from me.

That's fine and dandy. All I did was point out how you told me that "such and such" was not in the bible, then when I asked you a question about an answer you gave me that was NOT in the bible, you said there are other books besides the bible and that the bible was put together by man (which I agree with). You then get mad because I pointed out the contradiction in your statements and give me a "red flag" because of it, and also insult my intelligence. That's too funny.

You also say that I don't come here to learn anything about your god. I learned enough about him the 25 years I was living for him.

Now, since you did claim that the bible was put together by man, why do you even trust it?




[edit on 25-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Originally posted by Katie
You are to lazy to study history yourself, so you know nothing. Its very clear in your posts that you are not here to learn anything about God.

Well, noone of my friends are really here to learn anything, we are here to share and find solutions. We already know the Bible, History and many of us have special knowledge enabling us to see the source material in a wider perspective. People like yourself who is here to learn, please do so in silence. Rome wasn't built in a day and no war ever came about without cause. Silencium! Que?

And since you started it....

[edit on 26/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Well, noone of my friends are really here to learn anything, we are here to share and find solutions.

I agree with you on that statement. We can agree to disagree nicely. But when someone comes back and edits their post and says something different oh well I'll let it go.

I agree 100 percent with the OP and how mankind definitely did not originate on this planet, well maybe were unique in this form, but we are descendents of an extremely old race.

The only question I find asking myself about Ancient Astronaut theory is even beings did come down and populate the earth who created them?

reply to post by Katie


I tend to edit my posts alot, but luckily for you when I'm finished there's a lot less typos, and what I intended the post to be about is more clear. If you disagre with the syntaxes or the new info, then I assure you, that if you have quoted any text in your reply, it will remain what you quoted. AND you will have a more steady debate. Simply adjust your reactions, maybe they were based on a mistake in the post you are responding to.

[edit on 27/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by primus2012
Seriously though, Hebrew plural nouns can be used to both describe the quantitative and qualitative. Example the Hebrew word for trees is etsiym and it is used to describe either more than one tree, or one great tree.
In that sense, elohiym can be translated as both many gods, or one great God.

Yes, which kind of ties it in with Hinduism, a belief in a supreme being of many forms and natures, and also by plural.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
I believe some very intelligent beings came to this world, created life in their image and likeness, and gave us a set of commandments to live by. These beings flew through the sky and ascended and descended the heavens in their chariots, pillars and clouds.

The only thing is, these crafty beings didn't hand out the same manual all over the world. Schooled in Adam Smith's capitalist theory, they created a competing market for various religions, sects and pop star gurus.

The Shirot `Olat ha-Shabbat (Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice), found among the dead sea scrolls and also in the Masada fortress:


30. By the instructor. Song of the sacrifice of the seventh
Sabbath on the sixteenth of the month. Praise the God of
the lofty heights, O you lofty ones among all the

31. elim of knowledge. Let the holiest of the godlike ones
sanctify the King of glory who sanctifies by holiness
all His holy ones. O you chiefs of the praises of

32. all the godlike beings, praise the splendidly
[pr]aiseworthy God. For in the splendor of praise
is the glory of His realm. From it (comes) the praises
of all

33. the godlike ones together with the splendor of all [His]
maj[esty. And] exalt his exaltedness to exalted heaven,
you most godlike ones of the lofty elim,
and (exalt) His glorious divinity above

34. all the lofty heights. For H[e is God of gods] of all
the chiefs of the heights of heaven and King
of ki[ngs] of all the eternal councils.
(by the intention of)

35. (His knowledge) At the words of His mouth come into
being [all the lofty angels]; at the utterance
of His lips all the eternal spirits; [by the in]tention
of His knowledge all His creatures

36. in their undertakings. Sing with joy, you who rejoice
[in His knowledge with] rejoicing among the wondrous
godlike beings. And chant His glory with the
tongue of all who chant with knowledge;
and (chant) His wonderful songs of joy

37. with the mouth of all who chant [of Him. For He is]
God of all who rejoice [in knowledge]
forever and Judge in His power of all the
spirits of understanding.


Seems to me that sometimes it's one and at other times plural, they'll take whatever comes.

In any case there are a number of 'Godlike creatures' to these people, like the 'lofty ones' who apparently come from and return to the sky.

People talk about fallen angels but it doesn't translate well, we're simply talking about beings descended from above.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Well, noone of my friends are really here to learn anything, we are here to share and find solutions....... People like yourself who is here to learn, please do so in silence.

Hey my friend. Is this the naughty Neo?

I wish to say this, and no offense intended.

I am here to learn.

I do not yet find myself in the position of claiming I know everthing there is to learn, nor do I ever expect this will occur, or could occur for that matter.

It would be very presumptive of me to suggest otherwise, and I expect maybe this was not exactly what you where attempting to infer.

I am also, in some cases, attempting to assist people to also learn of things both Ancient and Biblical, if I can.

I also like to "discuss" things inorder to offer various points of consideration that may or may not generally be associated to a perticular topic. Out of the Box, provides for much more interesting discussions than everyone agreeing Cheops/Kufu built the Great Pyramid for example. (Of course he didn't, but that's another post.)

Most of the time when searching/surfing the web, I am looking for things from Thrace, The Black Sea, The Steppes and Mid East, seeing that I have a Theory which I have been working on for some years which revolves around a Bloodline.

That doesn't mean I am ignoring other ports or topics that peak my interests, and I always enjoy finding some new information.

So, I do believe there are many more within ATS with a similiar outlook on things, and who are infact learning.

With this said, there is a Motto that goes along with this my friend.

IF YOU DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS, YOU NEVER LEARN ANYTHING.

Just my perspective, and I trust you understand my intent my friend.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Well, noone of my friends are really here to learn anything, we are here to share and find solutions....... People like yourself who is here to learn, please do so in silence.

Hey my friend. Is this the naughty Neo?

I wish to say this, and no offense intended.

I am here to learn.

Well that's because you're not a complete member of the posse yet , you are currently concidered a prospect, mind you. New Friends often show symptoms of learning, but the more hardcore Friends become the less they want to learn. Since we all know that there is nothing much to learn here, and most of it is so incredibly scary that if we took it in and started believing it and living by it (ie. learning), this world would have become such a terrible place that we would all just fade into our nearest psychiatric ward one by one.

[edit on 28/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]