A fundamentalist Christians view on Masonry

Originally posted by Saurus
Premise 1: All Masons believe that God is the creator.
Premise 2: All Masons worship only God.
Premise 3: Satan is not the creator.
Conclusion: Therefore Masons do not worship Satan.

You forgot Premise 2.5: All Masons must call Jesus God.

Originally posted by liveandletlive
Where is the evidence that Masons are evil minions of the devil? I have been looking into them and have been unable to find any actual evidence that they are an evil organization. There are plenty of rumors but no hard evidence that I can find. What seems apparent to me though is that they are hated and targeted by a wide variety of Christian groups. Maybe someone can show why they are evil. Thanks in advance.

Anything anyone has would be nice. I want to make sure I’m not selling my soul to the devil if I choose to join. I hear Christian leaders say they are evil but why? Is it because the Catholics said so? Is it because its members may have been behind the original tea party and the founding of a representative republic which supported an individual’s right to freedom from tyranny? I’m not interested in theories, where is the evidence? Either your beliefs and hatred are based on fact or you’re a hypocrite who preaches what someone else tells you to like a good little puppet. Put up or shut up!

Edit to add: Oh and to keep with the spirit of the thread my comments are meant with all due respect.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by liveandletlive]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Could be the devil : the odds plus karma, and wrongly used by the faith people to scary their followers ?

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


Hey Gary is that a hard on ??? heh heh heh

I mean your avatar

[edit on 15-4-2010 by ShadowKnight322]

Originally posted by ShadowKnight322
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

Hey Gary is that a hard on ??? heh heh heh
I mean your avatar

So this is where it hits rock bottom. Um, are you a dude? ...heterosexual?

Originally posted by ShadowKnight322

heh heh heh

'Cuz dude... that's a strange thing to notice if you are.

On the other hand, I do understand. You just couldn’t help but to continue looking at my avatar.

An' you was lookin' REAL HARD too wernt’ cha?!? …I mean, dang dude…! ...all up in a brotha's pants…?

What can a playa’ say?
Maybe all you saw was what you really wanted to see.
That’s you, I guess.

I understand the need to scrutinize my avatar due to its pleasing aesthetic, design and visceral assault. Having it paid attention to was precisely what I was aiming for when I designed it. You are so into it because you are supposed to be so into it. Really just another hit. After all, I am the original Media Terrorist.

I know. I know... you cain't help but recognize.

You were lookin' so hard 'cuz that avatar is one of the coldest you've ever seen. But that's to be expected. Media's my thaaang. Freakin' it, is one of my abilities, all glory be to His name; one a my God-given, SUPER POWERS, if you will.

But if you wanna fantasize about me, understandable as that may be also,

do me and everyone else here trying to elevate themselves a favor by doing it on your own time and somewhere else so we don't have to read it. If finding erections is your idea of a great time, I got a newsflash for ya': There's plenty 'a sites that will satisfy whatever twisted fixations you may have better than this one. That's the closest you'll ever get to me or my erection.

So go get to 'em boy. ...and leave the thinking to the men.

And as long as YOU brought up my avatar, allow me to break it down 'fa 'ya in the next post. Since I am a teacher ' an all...

G7 Out.

Oh, and maybe. Like I said, I was blessed.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Reply to ShadowKnight322
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


The look and feel of the avatar was intended to visually symbolize the global and spiritual, NOW. A rainless, furious, storm of conflict. This climax ends with the end of this age and world.

This conflict, at its heart, is a struggle between good and evil... The Creator and His creation wage war on each other. Caught in the middle- or more precisely- because of us- this war does and must play out.

Those who have found the true path… not what they want it to be or think it is, but who have found the 1 true path to God will bask in His glory for eternity. Those who think they have will burn.

Sides are chosen and parts are played. Sacrifices, some of the highest sort, are all done to show the world and God Himself, who you are and what you REALLY believe. No matter when, no matter where and no matter who may disagree.

Yea. The avatar invites appreciation from all types I suppose. All glory to God again for everything good in me and especially for my media skills, because this is how I bring light to the darkness of the world. While I defend anyone's right to believe anything they choose, I likewise defend my charge from God, to spread His Word and expose darkness with "true light"--

…born only with reverent fear of He who is the eternal Almighty.

And if-- in this age of true darkness-- not only of the world, but worse, in the hearts of men-- should I scan this blasted land to find that it is only I who stand... Yet shall I stand. Yea, and alone- for now- if need be. But I have no fear of truly being alone. For I know my God is with me. As long as I keep the faith and stray not from the path, there shall He remain… but there are also those the bible calls chosen… they stand in the places God has chosen for them. And though I may not see them, nor they me, We know we are there.

“And though my people may not be many
we are ready for the storm to come-
and though my people may not be many
we are ready to push on as one.” – Fat Freddy’s Drop

I am in the midst of this storm, the same as are all reading. This is our our window to each other. Our eye contact.

Some of you felt there was a storm but couldn’t see it clearly, for dark, it rages. Thus, you have joined ATS. Others like me, have known about it for years and watched it grow worse and worse. Such is the reason I joined.Now if any be they- who choose to challenge God's Word, then I shall champion the Lord's cause and defend His honor, just as His archangel Michael did, in time infinitely past.

...but my weapons don't shed blood. Only tears, fears & rancid idears.

Now once again... For those who still haven't gotten that my slant on this is only in agreement with what the Word teaches from cover to cover about God...
Jesus is God! Not Mohammed or Baal or Lucifer or The Universe Itself or Casper The Friendly Ghost. Now there may be other "gods", but these are not the true creator, nor ever could be. God is called by no other names than those He gave Himself. And all of those are listed in the bible. Check and see if your idea of God is on the list my God has many names.

Lucifer decided he needed to be God at some point. This is key. I mentioned the symbolism of Masonry has too many symbols in common with Luciferians and their philosophy for it to be mere coincidence. Sure, admittedly, anyone can steal any symbol and pollute its meaning but come now gentlemen...
Is it really possible AND moreover, really PROBABLE- that every demonic Masonic symbol not only existed before the Lucifirians used it, but also did NOT serve as a veiled reference to Lucifer himself, his enlightenment of man or his light bringing, philosophy? I see no evidence of this. just as ya’ll haven’t seen any to the contrary.
No proof at all yet.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Now once again... For those who still haven't gotten that my slant on this is only in agreement with what the Word teaches from cover to cover about God...
Jesus is God! Not Mohammed or Baal or Lucifer or The Universe Itself or Casper The Friendly Ghost. Now there may be other "gods", but these are not the true creator, nor ever could be. God is called by no other names than those He gave Himself. And all of those are listed in the bible. Check and see if your idea of God is on the list my God has many names.

Lucifer decided he needed to be God at some point. This is key. I mentioned the symbolism of Masonry has too many symbols it common with Luciferians and their philosophy for it to be mere coincidence. Sure, admittedly, anyone can steal any symbol and pollute its meaning but come now gentlemen...
Is it really possible AND moreover, really PROBABLE- that every demonic Masonic symbol not only existed before the Lucifirians used it, but also did NOT serve as a veiled reference to Lucifer himself, his enlightenment of man or his light bringing, philosophy? I see no evidence of this. just as ya’ll haven’t seen any to the contrary.
No proof at all yet.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

You just provided all the proof that is needed to diffuse this argument. Masonry used the symbols long before any group claiming to be Devil worshipers adopted them. And if they were adopted purely because they were masonic, then all masonic symbols should have been adopted, not just the cool looking ones. I could go out and get a cool hat like yours, and dance naked in the street. that wouldn't make anyone who wore a hat like that a nut, just me. See the logic there?

I want to know when these secrets of who I really worship will be revealed to me. Because right now, I talk to God the Father, the same God the Father you talk to.

And just to be clear, God never gave himself those names, We did. Jesus did when he came to earth. God was God long before that thought. Look into "Old Testament" for clarification. If God would have wrote the Bible, it would have been consistent. It's not.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Reply to ShadowKnight322
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

The look and feel of the avatar was intended to visually symbolize the global and spiritual, NOW. A rainless, furious, storm of conflict. This climax ends with the end of this age and world.

This conflict, at its heart, is a struggle between good and evil... The Creator and His creation wage war on each other. Caught in the middle- or more precisely- because of us- this war does and must play out.

The shortcoming of this viewpoint is that it presumes that the Almighty would create an equal with the potential outcome that He might be overthrown and....and what? Be negated? Doesn't make sense. Why would the Omnipotent create an equal?

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Those who have found the true path… not what they want it to be or think it is, but who have found the 1 true path to God will bask in His glory for eternity. Those who think they have will burn.

And here's where we part ways. I (as an Anglican, I might add) don't see a return to the Old Testament angry, vengeful God as making sense from the perspective of Christianity. It's at odds with the New Testament. The various and sundry major religions have, at their core, a similarity of central message of conduct that it seems just a little unlikely that the Almighty is going to damn all who've arrived at the same destination but haven't taken "the 1 true path". If the destination is the same, what matters the route?

And let's not even try to parse the anger and backbiting that goes on between the various and sundry Christian sects as to who Dad likes best. The shortcoming of organised religion on this plane is that every one of them suffers from an exclusionary 'we have the only route to the Almighty and everyone else is a pretender' mindset. That's humanity imposing onto the Almighty its own childish perspective.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
And if-- in this age of true darkness- not only of the world, but worse, in the hearts of men...

Trouble is, Gary, the world's been through countless 'ages of true darkness' (at least if one takes seriously the constant pronouncement through the ages by those with an agenda of greater personal power in this world).

Yet here we are.

Still.

Not through our own good graces granted but because the present messengers of doom are no more correct than their previous brethren. We collectively as humans are no better nor worse than our predecessors. The past never was as righteous as we pretend anymore than the 1950's were as squeaky-clean and sexless as the media and Profits of Doom© would have us believe.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
-- should I scan this blasted land to find that it is only I who stand...

Aye! There's the rub! The very self-centred mindset that undermines the good intentions of religion.

Me. I'm the only one who knows. Only I (and my carefully selected band of adherents) will avoid the lake of brimstone.

Childish in its simple-mindedness, really.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Yet shall I stand. Yea, and alone- for now- if need be. But I have no fear of truly being alone. For I know my God is with me. As long as I keep the faith and stray not from the path, there shall He remain… but there are also those the bible calls chosen… they stand in the places God has chosen for them. And though I may not see them, nor they me, We know we are there.

Again, there's the rub insofar as Masonry is concerned. There are others as good and holy as we who are elsewhere, whom we know not. But they're nonetheless good and holy and likewise chosen; who are we to judge and appraise their goodness and holiness because they are other? Why would we not work together in this sphere against the forces that would have us at each other's throats?

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Jesus is God! Not Mohammed or Baal or Lucifer or The Universe Itself or Casper The Friendly Ghost. Now there may be other "gods", but these are not the true creator, nor ever could be. God is called by no other names than those He gave Himself. And all of those are listed in the bible. Check and see if your idea of God is on the list my God has many names.

And again, we see intolerance trotting out 'my way or the highway'. That's a human construct, Gary. Look to the message rather than the name. If the message is ostensibly the same, does it not stand to reason that the originator of the message is the same?

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Lucifer decided he needed to be God at some point. This is key. I mentioned the symbolism of Masonry has too many symbols it common with Luciferians and their philosophy for it to be mere coincidence. Sure, admittedly, anyone can steal any symbol and pollute its meaning but come now gentlemen...

For example (on the symbol front that is)?

And precisely what is the commonality of "philosophy" between Masonry and Luciferism? Tolerance? Social mindedness? Adherence to the word of God? What?

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Is it really possible AND moreover, really PROBABLE- that every demonic Masonic symbol not only existed before the Lucifirians used it, but also did NOT serve as a veiled reference to Lucifer himself, his enlightenment of man or his light bringing, philosophy? I see no evidence of this. just as ya’ll haven’t seen any to the contrary.
No proof at all yet.

None so blind......

Unfortunately, we seem to have been magically transported back 300 years and such myopic intolerance as is being ably and amply demonstrated here was the norm instead of the exception. The chief difference is that annihilation on a worldwide level is now possible if a religious simpleton is on the button. And there's a peculiar small subset of Christians who hate so much as to want that.

The argument you make Gary is one that argues FOR Masonry and its message of unity of men of good will rather than the words of intolerance you cast into ether. I, as a Mason, await the judgment of the Almighty in the next world; I don't propose that by the means of whatever religious madman, we should propel it and visit it onto this one.

I'm not so consumed with hatred that that should seem preferable.

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


every problem we face is because of one thing. Greed.

In the beginning........God spoke to us. He gave us his message. He didn't give a different one to Moses and then a different one to Mohamed. He gave the same message. Then we, as imperfect mortals, took that message and adjusted it. Then got followers. Then started "the church" then somebody go jealous. And wanted a piece of the pie. So they adjusted God's original message and stated a new Church. Got new followers. Got power. And it keeps happening. Who is the one with the true word of God? Not Network dude, and not Gary7mediaterrorist. Not even Agustusmasonicus. Nope, only God. And we won't know how pleased he is with us until we croak. But in order to find the path to his door, he left clues. Things that transcend organized religion. He gave us a brain. He gave us reason. He showed us evil and good and lets us choose. make no mistake, right is right, and wrong is definitely wrong. He know that Gary7mediaterrorist didn't live as a saint from birth to death, and he knows that Network dude may have fractured a few laws along the way. But he also knows what is in your heart. Only two people know that information. Him and you. So I stand by my statement that any person who worships the great creator, whatever they call him, has just as much right to do so, and have a chance to buy a ticket, as you or I.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

and what? Be negated? Doesn't make sense. Why would the Omnipotent create an equal?

That's the primary reason I don't practice Christianity anymore.. I view things through pure logic, and there is a massive logical fallacy embedded in the religion. I can understand respecting duality (of which I follow such ideologies) but to have one aspect the creator, creating the other aspect of the duality while giving it the same power, or intentionally making it weaker for the sake of destroying it or punishing it.. makes no sense. But like I said a few pages back, if God created "evil" and gave it equal power, is it not by default, as part of its creation, God it's self and worthy of respect?

Oh geeze.. now I really am a Satanist.

It's at odds with the New Testament.

Not only that, but Islam (second largest Monotheistic religion in the World) is the same God as the New and Old Testaments.. but his actions are nothing like the New Testament, and somewhat like the Old. Islam being the newest version of God (the same God, "people of the book" as Muslims would call the monotheist) perhaps they got the right idea. Or maybe religions are actually formed by cultures, and cultures are not formed by religion? Judaism is very much Semitic, Christianity very European, Islam very Arabic.. not just racially or ethnically, culturally.. Christianity for example adopted a huge portion of Pagan beliefs. Judaism is very tribal, and Islam is impregnated with the pagan cultures of Arabia.

But all the same God, and in fact, same Prophets. Hell, Mary, Mother of God, is mentioned more in the Quran than the Bible.

It is interesting to study though.

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


hah hah
Hey friend I'm a Male, and I will never show an avatar like that, you know why ? Guess not.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by ShadowKnight322]

Originally posted by ShadowKnight322
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

hah hah
Hey friend I'm a Male, and I will never show an avatar like that, you know why ? Guess not.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by ShadowKnight322]

This is how you treat friends? If so, consider me a NON-friend. You know why? Guess so.
hah hah.
G7 Out.

I don't actually intend to argue with you Gary, but reading through this last page, I thought of a few questions.

In the Bible, Hell is the word used to cover three other words, all referencing different places. It is my understanding that this was a problem that was born through translation.
Without trying to sound witty, I want to ask you which hell you think Masons would go to if they worshiped the devil?

I ask this because you say everything you know about God comes from between the two covers of the book, and this being the case, and you claiming to be a prophet, you must have an advanced knowledge of what is being conveyed when they use Hell as an umbrella term for the three various location.

Also, you mention Lucifer wanting to be better than God (I admit I am too lazy to go back and quote you word for word, but you get the point), but I am fairly certain it is an accepted idea that what is written about Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12-17 is not a reference to Satan.
(www.crivoice.org...)

What is your view on this? I think that if you are to accuse Masons of worshiping something, a clear definition of what it is their worshiping would be helpful.

I think it's starting to bother me that you are using terms loosely while claiming to be a prophet. If you were/are a prophet, you should have a somewhat advanced understanding of whats between the covers of the Bible, right?

I don't mind you being tight with God, the more people the better, and I personally don't care how you found him or what path you took, and I encourage you to keep doing what you've done to find him. But to claim to be a prophet is a bit of a stretch. I know that nobody would believe Jesus was the son of God if he was to show up now rather than in his time, but honestly... If you are a prophet, what is your God given mission? Surely you aren't simply touched by God as any Pastor is and just want to preach his word? Because I would not consider that to be a prophet.

Sorry for the possible incoherency of my writing, it's not my chosen method of communication by any means

Again, I am not so much looking for an argument or challenging you as I am trying to clarify my perception of you.

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


The word "lucifer" was a mistranslation in the Bible. It is not the name of Satan.

It was inserted into the Latin Vulgate Bible by Jerome, when Pope Damascus ordered him to make a Latin translation.

God is the Father of all humanity. All of humanity is one family.

God loves us and would never cause harm to befall us. The only way we will be destroyed is by our own free will and volition.

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


Who are the Luciferians?

Did you just make that part up?


In my opinion Jesus Christ was the great Light and Teacher. He gave humanity one overriding commandment, to love one another.

How do you reconcile the fact, accepted by Fundamentalism, that Jesus died so that we may be forgiven of our sins and receive salvation and at the same time say that everyone who isn't a Fundamentalist Christian is not included in that group?

I don't begrudge your beliefs, but God is for everyone. Immortality is for everyone. Salvation is for everyone.

That Gift will never, ever be taken away. God loved you before you were born. God is full of grace and will never condemn you.

There is only one way to avoid immortality and that is to consciously and firmly refuse it. It's not the other way around.

That is the type of brainwashing the Church has used for centuries to scare people into subordination. The ability to know God is inherent in every person. You don't need a church, a preacher, a pope or a priest to receive God's grace.

Finally --

And I apologize for getting overly worked up, but what is the "Word" you base your beliefs on?

If it's the Bible, then what translation?

Where in the Bible does it say that people who think they've found the true path will burn?

Which Bible author is right when they say things that conflict with each other?

What about the other books that were cut from the Bible because they didn't agree with Emperor Constantine's power trip at Nicea?

How do you know that this fire rising up in you to condemn others is the spirit of God and not your own human ego, seeking to be superior and destroy those who disagree?

reply to post by Taskism


The simple idea of GOD being ALMIGHTY knowing even the amount of hair one have contradicts what is told about lucifer, how can GOD make a wrong decision when chosing lucifer and then have to expel lucifer because he (GOD) was wrong ???
To me lucifer is the whip of GOD , punishing all the ones who lie betray and decieve .

A quote by Phillips Brooks that I find quite profound...

"The Bible is like a telescope. If a man looks through his telescope, then he sees worlds beyond; but if he looks at his telescope, then he does not see anything but that. The bible is a thing to look through, to see that which is beyond; but most people only look at it; and so they see only the dead letter." -Phillips Brooks

Originally posted by ShadowKnight322
reply to post by Taskism

 

The simple idea of GOD being ALMIGHTY knowing even the amount of hair one have contradicts what is told about lucifer, how can GOD make a wrong decision when chosing lucifer and then have to expel lucifer because he (GOD) was wrong ???
To me lucifer is the whip of GOD , punishing all the ones who lie betray and decieve .

Because the ultimate gift God gave to his creations was free will. Any creature can decide at any time to turn away from God.

Satan (not lucifer, see above posts) was an angel. When he figured out that he could use all the things he had seen and been given he decided to use those gifts to try and rule the world.

If intelligent creatures were not given free will there would be no point in choosing a path.

Also, God does not punish people. All the suffering and pain on this world are due to one of two reasons. They are either accidents of nature or acts of man.

God doesn't cause suffering. He loves us.

There is an interesting account of the "Lucifer Rebellion" in the Urantia Book. Whether or not you believe this account, it is a very good read.

Paper 53 describes why the rebellion occurred and why "Lucifer" was removed from power. He apparently created a manifesto because he was disgruntled.

To paraphrase the manifesto:

1 - God didn't exist, but was a myth created by other supernatural beings to keep people oppressed so they could rule them.

2 - That each planet or system should govern itself and not be under the control of these other beings, sort of like ambassadors.

3 - That too much time and energy was being spent on teaching mortals how to ascend to their final destiny. He thought the rules were too strict, that heaven was a myth and that people should just pretty much do whatever they want.


Because God is forgiving and truly wants his creation to have free will He put up with this for a few thousand years. Lucifer recruited about ten percent of the angels, but was unable to ensnare a single human.

I think Michael (the Christ) finally got fed up when it got to the point that the survival of human souls was in danger. According to some accounts He came here as Jesus to finally remove Satan from power and return mankind to the promise of salvation and immortality.

Who knows? I think it's a very interesting account though.