A fundamentalist Christians view on Masonry

reply to post by Saurus


very well put Saurus.

I feel that the lost tribe of pigmys in the hidden jungles whom have never seen another group of humans and worships Bulla Bulla, still has the creator in mind. And who knows, they might not kill each other to get their stuff, and may in fact have a better understanding of what God is all about than us.

So it's been awhile...but anyway lol

In my view I do agree that it is more in the same kind of "messed up" to say that the Christian religion is the true way and the best for it is a new religion by the means of other mainstream religions. I think it is also selfish for someone to say that someone else's beliefs are false and that they will suffer for eternity in damnation for their decision. Also i must add if this was Jesus's true meaning to say that the only way to heaven is through him is also selfish as well. If someone where to do what Jesus said and did today do you think that people would idolize and religiously follow him? Also to add that there are some common stories and characteristics of Jesus compared to Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, etc religious figures as well and that The Christian religion is a nuance mish-mash of older religious styles. To add to this theory, also the notion of the Noah's flood was taken from The Epic of Gilgamesh, from the city of Uruk. Of course i most honorably say that this is all IMHO.

A fundamental Catholic view. (32+ Masons) are dangerous.
Perhaps if we do something like suggested on other threads: NO Princeton, Harvard, Yale graduates in or representing any White House Office.

Decoy

reply to post by Decoy


why only 32+? aren't the 18th degree masons just a dangerous? What about the 3rd degree master masons?

If you don't mind sharing with us here, could you say in your own words, what it is that makes us such a danger? Please don't feel obligated to respond though. It would be great to have a civilized thread on this matter.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


If your U2U friend happens to show up here I would ask them; what about Masons who do not believe in the Devil/Satan?

I don't believe in the Devil. Or Satan. Or Hell for that matter.. not even Hades. I do believe in Duality.. but not the kind that burns you for eternity. And I always found it... peculiar... that Christians who boast a kind loving God would ignore the fact that he demands servitude or an eternity of ever last pain beyond reckoning. Seems Oxymoronish to me.

So I always find it surprising when I am informed I have for the past few years been accidentally worshiping Satan. Must be a tricky bugger, eh?

reply to post by Rockpuck


I still here. Just playing the background. Listening...

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


Sorry I don't quite follow your meaning?

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


I see the fundamentalist side as being intolerant. It's my way or the highway so to speak. And it seems as if "the church" has fed it's member all this information and pumped them full of boogyman beliefs, that without thought, the members will just go along with the idea that Mason must worship the devil because My church said so. I mean no disrespect, and I am sure not all are like this.

I have an aunt and uncle who are Fundamentalists. I tried to have a conversation about the Rosicrucians with them. My grandfather was one, and that was my Aunt's dad. They told me that the Rosicrucians tried to be Jesus Christ. Or at least strived to equal his powers. When I asked them which branch they were speaking of, neither one knew that there was more than one branch. So I feel that they have an uninformed opinion of a subject that should be close to home for them. They felt that way because that is what their church told them.

They also asked my what level I was when I told them I was a mason. that threw up a red flag that they had all the same info that comes from "the church". Since I told them we don't worship the devil, I must not he high enough in the ranks yet.

So Gary, who is God to you?

It's not so much the intolerance of fundamentalists that gets me - it's the lack of willingness to question their beliefs.

If I have a belief, it is only once I have questioned that belief, scrutinized it, ripped it to shreds, and then still believe it, that it can truly be called faith.

A belief that one is afraid to question is never truly faith.

Some Freemasons that I know, that have questioned all of their beliefs, and still believe in the Almighty; and now have deep, deep faiths in the Almighty, have miracles happen to them every day. People marvel at their "luck."

The bible says: "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

Funny though, when someone does have enough faith to perform miracles, fundamentalists call it magic, and say it must by from Satan.

If only they knew that it is, perhaps, only through rigorous exploration of their beliefs that they will find the faith that is mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps this is one of the secrets of Freemasonry?

[edit on 9/4/2010 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus
Hi Gary

I believe that this evil force also manifests in different ways - in Set to the Egyptians, in Satan to the Christians, in Hades to the ancient Greeks etc. I would never worship such a force, in any of its manifestations. So even though I may believe in a unified God, I don't worship Satan. I also don't know how you might reach this conclusion in my case (as Augustus Masonicus suggested above.).


[edit on 8/4/2010 by Saurus]

I have to draw issue with lumping Hades/Pluto and Set/Seth in with Satan/The Devil... Hades and Seth are/were not considered evil by the believers in these religions.

Hades himself has to be one of the most "agreeable" of the classical deities, with Zeus' misdeeds far outweighing those of Hades(In my opinion at least).

And Seth(although unpleasant) was/is the God of Storms and Chaos, not some evil corrupter figure. If he was Ra would not have tasked Seth with protecting to Boat of a Million Years from the true evil in Kemetic(Egyptian) faith: Apophis the force of entropy, and corruption in the universe.

Sorry to get off on a rant there, I have always had a love of ancient mythology and for a many years followed the Kemetic faith.

Originally posted by Saurus
It's not so much the intolerance of fundamentalists that gets me - it's the lack of willingness to question their beliefs.

If I have a belief, it is only once I have questioned that belief, scrutinized it, ripped it to shreds, and then still believe it, that it can truly be called faith.

A belief that one is afraid to question is never truly faith.

Some Freemasons that I know, that have questioned all of their beliefs, and still believe in the Almighty; and now have deep, deep faiths in the Almighty, have miracles happen to them every day. People marvel at their "luck."

The bible says: "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

Funny though, when someone does have enough faith to perform miracles, fundamentalists call it magic, and say it must by from Satan.

If only they knew that it is, perhaps, only through rigorous exploration of their beliefs that they will find the faith that is mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps this is one of the secrets of Freemasonry?

[edit on 9/4/2010 by Saurus]

I would take it on another level as well. I think that they really didn't have a choice. They were not brought up in a certain way to discuss or question their belief. To do so was terrible. I do not have any hatred or disgust for Fundamentalist but rather i have a feeling of remorse for they will never get to really see the other side and make a decision for them-self.

An explanation and understanding of all beliefs and religions should be necessary before making a final decision on which to "follow". Personally i am not religious at all and i do not consider myself under any denomination, religion, or following so to speak. I am very spiritual though and do believe in a God, energy, etc...

My understanding is just different from anyone else. I read the bible and think it is fascinating...as well as the: quran, torah, tripitaka, vedas, kojiki, etc.. i think that taking a pragmatic stance on religion is a better way to understand the questions of life rather than staying on a more dogmatic, one-set mind to any of the religions.

I think that the perception and translation of the bible that has been preached by the so many different sects and denominations has been distorted and manipulated to their liking. This goes with the religion of Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism (even though they are more of a philosophy rather than a religion) as well. I do not think that one single religion or school of thought, even Freemasonry in that matter, has all the answers to life's meanings. They are just tools to help you advance on your spiritual path and rather than kill someone in the name of your "God' (which i think is silly because all the religions believe in a God...they just call it/him/her a different name...a rose is a rose by any other name) is just selfish and cruel.

i am a believer that people should believe what they want as long as they keep it themselves and do not kill anyone in the name of their religion. Unfortunately, a lot of wars, battles, and lives have been lost for this exact reason.

reply to post by bushidomason


I have to say that I agree with you. For years I have studied many faiths and have come to find that there is good in most of them, but all of them have the potential for evil.

I have also learn that if you look for the Devil, you will find him everywhere and if you look for God you can also find him everywhere.

Greetings all. As it so turns out, time spread too thin demands I spend only a fraction of the time I should on this- but I do want to get to a few things now. To keep this short but wanting to speak to the things I’ve seen various members claim. But more on that later. Third things first...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

Sorry I don't quite follow your meaning?

I’ve let everyone speak. That’s what. I spoke my piece, rippled the waters, then stood back as I saw the patterns emerge. And I watched them closely before I disturbed them again. Additionally my attention has been fascinating-- and—dare I say it?
enlightening…
Humph… “enlightening…”
Able to follow the path now Rock?

As for some cases and points of said patterns:

Originally posted by Saurus
Hi Gary

I am a Freemason, and I would like you to consider my point of view in your argument as well...

I believe that, in order for God to be worshiped globally, by all people, he needs to present Himself in a way which each culture will understand - that fits into their way of thinking.

[edit on 8/4/2010 by Saurus]

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Saurus

 

very well put Saurus.

I feel that the lost tribe of pigmys in the hidden jungles whom have never seen another group of humans and worships Bulla Bulla, still has the creator in mind. And who knows, they might not kill each other to get their stuff, and may in fact have a better understanding of what God is all about than us.

Originally posted by lost in the midwest
reply to post by bushidomason

 

I have to say that I agree with you. For years I have studied many faiths and have come to find that there is good in most of them, but all of them have the potential for evil.

I have also learn that if you look for the Devil, you will find him everywhere and if you look for God you can also find him everywhere.

I see in more than one of the comments here a pattern. A kind of—unity. Many here, or almost all, think God is- or should be, some psychedelic, ‘come-as-you-are and change-only-as-much-as-you-want-to, mirrored amalgamation of anything anybody ever made up, that gives an excuse for their perceived reality. It takes all kinds.

An impersonal- (at least as far as his character, identity and perceivable persona) hall of mirrors-- reflecting any and all kinds of cosmic, spiritual stuff from here there and everywhere. No one can know.
But then again, hey-- we all do! …don’t we…?

When a person chooses to gaze into THAT, you see what you want to see. Not what is.

But really tho’ God ain’t schizophrenic. Now while some Christian-hunter might try to claim that He IS-- because He is triune, the fact is, while Schizophrenia amounts to an array of particular and various symptoms, no schools of professional thought doubt it is a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality.
If I need to, I can show how successfully applying such a notion is Jesus impossible.

and bushidomason, Christianity is not any kind of "mish-mash. Many faiths ARE though. In fact, most non-Christian (and even some so-called "Chrisitian" ones) will become a blur of various beliefs all the more so in coming days.

But THAT is a subject for another time and as always my time is short…

Furthermore He has a personality and He knows who He is. As “pure truth” would dictate, you can’t decide to make Him what you want Him to be because its cool or its politically correct or you don’t want to look like the odd ball or you don’t want to step on any toes or…

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

God is truth and while there may be many perspectives, there still, is only 1 truth and 1 God. A complex being to be sure My Lord is, but He is not subject to remaking Himself over and over to suit any and all cultures. Worried that the turban might not play well in Texas. Mindful that without just the right presentation He might not be accepted. He made us! It is not He who needs to be accepted when you really understand how this game works. …it is US ! God is gonna’ be who He is with or without our consent, cultural slants or politics.
He is the I AM and we gotta get with His program. His game. His rules.

Masons just love to point out that they worship “a creator”. Well put this in ya’ll’s pipes…
What is a creator if not an artist? And as one myself, I know they make what they want the way they want and here’s a newsflash but the art itself ain’t got NO SAY in it! The creator and he alone calls the friggin’ shots. If I’m drawing a picture and I decide to make one sketch poorly and another skillfully, the pictures themselves just gotta’ suck it up.

In a way then, you could consider me the omnipotent God of my work… So art is subjective in its form because it WAS made. One way of making it was elected then executed. What those who are non-Christian fundamentally either ignore or rail against is this simple, humbling fact.

And while I’m here— to anybody who thinks Christians fear challenging their beliefs--
I laugh. Really. Its clear you have just met me. I fear nothing but Jehovah Himself. And just so you know, I have challenged my beliefs from their start. This is the foundation of my trust in Him. I have stepped to the edge and dared to call out years ago. And my lord, knowing my sincerity and fear, answered. In fact, by virtue that I’m even having this conversation indicates I’m kinda’ challenging them now.
No problem here ladies.

and gents…

For the record, I am not Catholic. I stay as far away from that as East is from West. That’s all I have to say about that on this thread. The current flavor needs to be kept full.

Now back to God… and network dude’s question. What we think of God means nothing. At least nothing that has any bearings on what He is, or chooses to do. Just like my art can’t justifiably complain to me if it doesn’t care for the stroke of its eyes.

See network dude, My God has a name. Actually, many. But dig, while you guys are willing to call Him by any name anybody from "Adam" to the "Cat in the Hat" laid on Him, I only use the names He gave Himself. The key here is that all the names God gave Himself refer to one, particular, entity. Not our man-made crowd of candidates.

While I do in time, intend to expound on my statements hereafter, I’m getting a bit ahead of myself and my time is slipping. Yet I did want to let network dude and some of you others know what’s up with my God.

And just for the record His names are: Jehovah, Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. 3 in 1, 1 in 3. Many other names He has, but you know who I mean.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


Well yes a majority of the religions are a mixture of older myths,stories, and/or beliefs, but since we are talking in relation to Christianity i was focusing my discussion thusly to that one religion.Yes i agree that most of the religions are just copied or used over and over again. For instance, there are many stories and parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh that are too similar to the new and old testaments. The Epic of Gilgamesh was written long long long before the new and old testaments where evwn thought of. The only differmce is that Gilgamesh accepts that death is apart of living where as the Christian belief says that you will live in some sort of heaven or hell forever after you die.

I do enjoy reading your posts and find them interesting!

btw...spelling and/or grammar might be off due to my response on my iphone while at work in which i have come to despise this keyboard.

Hi Gary, good to meet you.

I think your analogy to the paintings is much like what was said about all Gods being different representations to different people.

God is the creator, respected by all religions. He is the artist that calls the shots. This is so in all religions that I know of.

We all agree in various faiths that God calls the shots and that it is not our place to challenge God.

This is where most of the conflict in history comes from. Everybody is solid in their faith and everything thinks that the version of God they dwelt on the most couldn't possibly be wrong.

That in my opinion is due in part to the fact that regardless of the path you choose, when you do find the light you're looking for, you KNOW that it is God. And if you found it through Christianity, you know that Christianity is the right path, right? Same goes for any other path to God.

So why is it that each religion has to claim they are right and that the light that was found on another path (which in my opinion is the same thing) is a false God?

I agree, that God doesn't have to bend to fit us, God never bent in my opinion to fit anyone. Man bent God because he found God in various ways and refused to accept that other ways were leading to the same thing.

To me, God is what most people believe, he is in everything, he is everywhere. But to me, we are essentially God's dream. All of us are personalities played out in his dream. Pieces of God, his thoughts. We are of God. This makes believing in the devil, in my opinion, a very inappropriate appraisal of my spiritual beliefs, or any ideas anyone may have come up with regarding the beliefs of Freemasonry, which, as Masons will tell you, has not set belief that it shares with it's members.

My path was through Christianity, and since then, I have explored a whole lot more and I wouldn't say Christian defines me any more, but it was how I came to know God.


I have more to say as well, but have a meeting to get to.

I will be back.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Taskism]

See, we can make this all complicated which seems to be the trend these day's. But, the truth is, it's really not that complicated at all.

Satan is the ruler of this world, and very powerful indeed. He got to be the ruler of this world because he is intelligent. However, that still doesn't change the fact that he is a liar and a thief among other things. Satan represents a big fat negative. Which would fully explain the current state our Planet Earth is in. Yes, it is because of Satan. Not God. Contrary to popular belief, Satan can only be at one place at a time. This is, and alway's has been a huge problem for him, especially these day's. It makes it very difficult to keep his people in line. And, yes, he also has little helpers too.

Our God that Christians believe in is a supreme being. There is no other above him. None, not one. Almighty God rules over all in the Universe. God rules over Satan also which as I stated before is the ruler of Planet Earth. The Almighty God represents a big fat positive. He represents good in all and everything. Planet Earth has been turned into a bad place to be because many have chosen to reject God. But rest assured, God is still present on Earth today. There is no making him go away. The Almighty God is here to stay. Contrary to popular belief, God is omni-present which as you probably all already know, means he can be many places at once. In fact he can be and is everywhere.

If you were to put a positive and a negative together. The positive will alway's be the dominant force. Just thought that I would throw that out there. A little Science never hurts.

It's as simple as right or left, up or down, or hot or cold. There is no in between. You cannot be luke warm.

It all comes down to this. Regardless what anyone thinks and regardless what religion one is. We either choose to follow the Almighty God that represents good, positivity, and is on the right of things.(I can go on and on here) Or, we choose to follow Satan the god of this world which represents bad, negativity, and is on the left of things.(I can go on and on here as well)

See, the choice is simple. The choice is between two different Gods. They are not the same. We all need to make a choice when it comes down to it.

There is no choice as far as I am concerned. I have and alway's will follow the Almighty God. His power is un-matched.

One must choose between the two.

Like everyone is is saying, time is of the essence.
Choose wisely.

Of course, these are just my beliefs and in no way am I forcing my beliefs on anyone else. Like I said, it's a choice. It's free will. One of the greatest gifts that we ALL have been given from our creator God Almighty, the King of Kings, Lord of Lords.


~ Zeus




[edit on 10-4-2010 by Zeus2573]

Originally posted by Zeus2573
Hey, Network Dude, pehap's your thread title should have been:

A Fundamentalist Masonic view on Christianity.

This thread is turning out just like I thought it would.

~ Zeus

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Zeus2573]

Well yea man. But any good blade cuts both ways. And the fact is if we look at Masonry as Christians or God as Masons we still kinda' are going to touch the same bases. Its all part of the subject. Makes no diff to me. What I want to try to get out is that God is God and gonna always be. He don't sway or have secret identities. And since He is a single entity- granted of three parts- there can only be one way to come to Him.
If this is false, why did God accept Abel's slain lamb sacrifice but not Cain's offering of foods of earth and vine? Caine came to God the way Caine wanted to instead of the way God wants to be approached. This is the essence of our problem. Many of you think any kind of way is gonna get you there, but I'm here to tell ya'll who'll listen- don't bet your soul on it! You'd better be sure when it comes to eternity!
I mean look at all the good coming your way to God did for Caine! There is a reason this tale is in the Bible and it ain't necessarily historical.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by bushidomason
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

I do enjoy reading your posts and find them interesting!

btw...spelling and/or grammar might be off due to my response on my iphone while at work in which i have come to despise this keyboard.

Thank you for the kind words. And never sweat spelling. I like it when posts are misspelled! It let's me know a real person is the author! I pay close attention to your posts and will continue to do so. So let us know what you are thinking more ok?

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by Zeus2573
Hey, Network Dude, pehap's your thread title should have been:

A Fundamentalist Masonic view on Christianity.

This thread is turning out just like I thought it would.

~ Zeus

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Zeus2573]

Well yea man. But any good blade cuts both ways. And the fact is if we look at Masonry as Christians or God as Masons we still kinda' are going to touch the same bases. Its all part of the subject. Makes no diff to me. What I want to try to get out is that God is God and gonna always be. He don't sway or have secret identities..

Yes. That was the whole point of my post. This Christian here knows all about God Almighty. IF your intentions with this post, although I'm not sure, is to teach me a thing or two about God, then you just might find yourself winding up being the student. Don't forget why/how you ended up on this thread in the first place my friend. It was because of your views on Masons, not mine. Remember? So, now in this we have a Christian trying to tell a Christian how it is and more than likely receiving stars from Masons for doing so. The very same Masons you yourself have made perfectly clear that you are in opposition with. Not me, you.

I just knew somehow way back in my sub-conscience, I was hearing a little voice saying "don't comment on this thread your going to regret it".

Well, I should have listened.

I was here for your support. And this is the thanks I get?

You say " any good blade cuts both way's", yes true, but it still is going to come down to who has the "sharpest" blade in the end. It is of my opinion that is precisely what these Masons here would like to determine. Just who does have the sharpest blade? I guess we'll see eh?

I'm staying out of this one from now on.

Go get em' friend.

Freinds alway's and forever,

~ Zeus


[edit on 10-4-2010 by Zeus2573]