More Deceptions To Hide Consequenses of Tax Cuts, page 1
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reply posted on 3-6-2004 @ 09:20 PM by gmcnulty
Republicans Ponder Not Adopting a Budget This Year
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS Published: June 3, 2004
WASHINGTON, June 2 - They have tried sweet-talk and dire warnings, insults and bluffing tactics. None of it has worked, which is why a growing number of Republicans are beginning to despair about agreeing on a budget plan for next year.
Embarrassing as that would be for the party that controls both houses of Congress; many Republicans are concluding they would be better off with no budget plan than with one that would require them to pay the cost of permanently extending last year's tax cuts.
Senate Republican leaders, back from their Memorial Day recess, showed little sign on Wednesday of persuading a small band of rebels within their own party to drop their insistence on "pay as you go" rules.
The four Republican dissenters, joined by most Democrats, are demanding rules that would force Congress to pay the cost of any new tax cuts either with spending cuts or tax increases in other areas. The impasse has already undermined President Bush's top domestic goal, which is to make the tax cuts permanent, and it will apparently postpone major budget decisions until after the elections. It has also exposed a rift over Republican priorities: Is it more important to cut taxes or to prevent the budget deficit from expanding beyond its current level of about $400 billion?
The White House and House Republicans have staunchly opposed any such restrictions, because permanently extending Mr. Bush's tax cuts would cost about $1.7 trillion over the next 10 years.
On Tuesday, Senate Republican staff members floated a possible compromise: If the Republican hold-outs would accept a budget framework negotiated with the House, the Republican leaders would support a separate pay-as-you-go rule that would only apply to the Senate. But that idea vanished before Republican leaders had even proposed it, apparently because some Senate Republicans viewed it as a capitulation to opponents of the tax cuts.” I’m still working on a couple of ideas," said Senator Don Nickles, the Oklahoma Republican who is the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. "I'm going to invest some more time in this - but not a lot."And while some of the Republican holdouts said they were open to compromise, they were far from certain that one would be possible. “It’s closing the barn door after the cows are gone," said Senator John McCain of Arizona, one of the most vocal holdouts, dismissing the proposed budget resolution with a thumbs-down sign.
In addition to Mr. McCain, the major Republican Senate holdouts are Senators Olympia J. Snowe and Susan Collins, both of Maine, and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island.
"I hope we can come up with a compromise," Ms. Collins said. "But I feel very strongly that there needs to be real budget enforcement. “On Wednesday, two liberal policy research groups released a study estimating that the ultimate cost of the tax cuts would fall overwhelmingly on middle- and lower-income families.
According to the study, by the Tax Policy Center and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, more than three-quarters of all households would end up net losers if the government actually paid for the tax cuts by either spending cuts or other tax increases.
But the wealthiest one-fifth of families, who are by far the biggest beneficiaries of the tax cuts, would end up big winners. “We should think of tax cuts as loans, not as grants, and in particular as loans that are not paid back by the same people who get them," said William G. Gale, a senior economist at the Tax Policy Center. One Republican official said Congress could muddle through without a budget agreement. Democrats have already made it clear they will vote to extend at least temporarily three major tax cuts - an expansion of the child tax credit, a reduction in the so-called "marriage penalty" for two-income families and an expansion of the 10-percent tax bracket to cover more middle-income taxpayers.
Failing to adopt a budget resolution would make it harder to prevent lawmakers from adding pet spending projects. It would also mean that any tax-cut extensions would fall under the Senate's normal debating rules, which require at least 60 votes before debate can be ended. But the biggest issue for Republicans may simply be the embarrassment of not being able to pass a basic budget plan even though they control both chambers of Congress and the White House. “It’s optics," said one Republican aide. "The issue is, can the Republicans do the most basic of things, which is to pass a budget?"
With elections just five months away, neither Democrats nor Republicans want to vote in favor of either tax increases or big budget cuts. But Democrats want to put obstacles in the way of future tax cuts while most Republicans simply want to leave the issue open until next year. “It’s true it would defer the decisions for a year, but at least it would get us through the year that we're in," said Senator Arlen Specter, a moderate Republican from Pennsylvania.



reply posted on 3-6-2004 @ 09:30 PM by Seekerof
Not that I don't trust your 'copy-n-paste' job here, but a link to your source would be prudent?
Republicans Ponder Not Adopting a Budget This Year

Also gmcnulty,
It would be greatly appreciated if you would edit the ALL CAPS use in your thread title.



seekerof

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Seekerof]


reply posted on 4-6-2004 @ 01:47 PM by Phoenix
Even excepting the NY Times reputation of late for strictly partisan editorial staff and its reporters habit of making up stories out of thin air, this article is so full of half truths, inuendo and outright misleading conclusions that even reasonable liberals should be embarassed by the obvious lack of journalistic objectivity presented. The article really should have a disclaimer added saying its an unpaid political advertisment.

NY Times = DU dressed as mainstream.

First off the article quotes four RINO's that constantly use the 60 vote super-majority rule to get back door pork deals and other advantages for their states at the expense of the country - thats all this is, just another "whats in it for me ploy" by some senators that realize the advantage of using the polarized politics of the senate for their own political advancement, you'll see the fix go in after public scutiny go away.

Qouting from the article,
"On Wednesday, two liberal policy research groups released a study estimating that the ultimate cost of the tax cuts would fall overwhelmingly on middle- and lower-income families"

"According to the study, by the Tax Policy Center and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, more than three-quarters of all households would end up net losers if the government actually paid for the tax cuts by either spending cuts or other tax increases"

Well of course LIBERAL policy research groups are going to get results that are favorable to their agenda, thats not exactly intellectually honest reporting by the NY Times now is it - why could they not have resaerched results from a non-partisan think tank? - because it does'nt fit their editorial agenda thats why!

The second paragraph is fiction based on something that is unlikely to occur unless of course Kerry is actually elected as president, heres why I say that.

"Latest data from the Internal Revenue Service demonstrate that the wealthy are bearing an increasingly disproportionate share of the tax burden.

Moreover, it doesn't take a fabulous income for Americans to land in the upper reaches of the tax brackets:
* All one had to earn to qualify among the top 25 percent of filers in 1999 was a modest $52,965.
* Persons in that heady income class paid 83.5 percent of all taxes.
* To be among the top 50 percent, a person had to earn only $26,415 a year.
The 27 percent marginal tax rate kicks in for single taxpayers at only $27,050 of income.

Source: Editorial, "A Rich Tax Debate," Wall Street Journal, January 22, 2002."
A Dose of Reality Concerning Taxes

$52,965 is all it takes to be near or in the group that is called "big winners" Now when I go to the convenience store that has a big poster saying "New Managers Needed" we pay starting salary of $53,700, I'll now have to look upon the store manager as one of those evil rich bastards thats not paying his fair share. Does that sound as crazy to you as it does to me?

The liberal tax policy groups are just using the worn out old class warfare propaganda put out by democrats that never has held any water, again you will get no truth here from NY Times.

What are the alternatives then that could have been reported on by the Times? - Theres this solution from Cato a libertarian think tank affiliated with neither the democratic party nor the republican party.

"In recent years, mismanagement scandals have occurred in many federal agencies, including the Army Corps of Engineers, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Department of Energy, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Even the National Zoo in Washington has recently been shaken by scandal. The $2.3 trillion federal government has simply become too big for Congress to oversee."

"The good news is that Americans do not need such a big government. Most federal programs are unconstitutional, unnecessary, actively damaging, or properly the responsibility of state governments or the private sector. This study analyzes programs that could be cut to create annual budget savings of $300 billion. If these cuts were phased in over five years, the budget would be balanced by fiscal year 2009 with all of President Bush's tax cuts in place."

"Some reform ideas should be applied throughout the government. Business subsidies should be terminated, and commercial activities should be privatized. Also, federal grants to the states should be scaled back. Currently, a complex array of 716 grant programs disgorges more than $400 billion annually to state and local governments, which become strangled in federal regulations."

Cato Institute on Downsizing Federal Government

I dont see anything in that analysis that indicates downsizing is going to force the government to steal candy out of your babies hands, its a very reasonable explanation of the problem facing Americans today in regards to government and taxes.

Some of you will invariably allude to the horrors that will occur when the states will have to fund their own programs, yes the horror is paying high federal and state taxes combined . Let me point out that local control of taxation, regulation and budgeting ultimately provides much more empowerment of the taxpayer to control government abuse of tax funds.

Basically the truth of the matter is we have a two party system where politicians on both sides introduce new spending initiatives in the guise of helping helping people out, but what they are really doing is gaining more power through the use of your money - it amounts to a giant vote buying scheme.

Back to the tax issue for a moment, you may have noticed that the income figure of $26,415 puts someone in the top 50% of income earners, the NCPA study said that people earning less than $26,415 paid 4% of the tax revenue collected in 1999 according to IRS records (less now under the Bush tax cuts)

On the other hand the top 50% of income earners (remember this starts at $26,415) paid 96% of tax revenues collected. All one had to earn to qualify among the top 25 percent of filers in 1999 was a modest $52,965, persons in that heady income class paid 83.5 percent of all taxes. That means that persons earning from $26,415 up to $52,965 paid a relatively small 12.5% of total tax revenue. Whats the point of all these figures that you've probably heard before you might ask?

The point is that with clear minds and eyes wide open one of our national political parties has a goal to give so called but finely targeted tax cuts to the middle class while at the same time increasing revenues from the so called rich in a planned attempt to usurp democracy by ensuring that more than 50% of the voting public receives largesse from a minority of income earners no longer having the voting power to effect change.

Democrats are saying whats wrong with that, sounds good to me?

May people remind themselves to look back and read some history concerning countries that fell under the power of one monolithic political authority when asking that question, there is example after example of aristocracy's and dictatorships born of supposedly benign one party systems - is that what you want? - would you put your welfare in the hands of a government that has no natural checks and balances? - even if it started out benign how long would that really last once the politicians got a taste of REAL power?

I ask again is this what you really want?

When you see a narrowly divided senate that bickers over such things as tax and budget policy its a good thing for all of us in the long run. My fear is that due to tinkering of the tax system as desired by democrats this system will become unbalanced and out of control forever.

Changing the tax system in order to gain votes is very risky and things may not turn out to be the utopia that some might hope for, reminds me of the old saying when one receives an unexpected gift after asking to many times,
"Ask and ye shall receive"


reply posted on 4-6-2004 @ 10:24 PM by gmcnulty
You say:
“NY Times reputation of late for strictly partisan editorial staff and its reporters habit of making up stories out of thin air, this article is so full of half truths, (sic)inuendo and outright misleading conclusions..”


You must not read the Times to say” strictly partisan editorial staff”, you should learn to form your own opinion from first had knowledge. And if you’re referring to the recent Judith Miller flap, rather then state a distorted personal conclusion of the event, I suggest a personal re-examination of the case first.

“NY Times = DU dressed as mainstream. “


I have no idea of what that means.

I see you quote from the “liberal” Tax Policy Center and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities,………

I must assume liberal to mean ‘anything, one who holds a differing views’ then you.

I would suggest you seek out the primary source and see if the portrayal of your ‘authority’ is an accurate portrayal.

You sure post lots of irrelevant material with I bet you hope gives you the appearance of knowing of what you speak – I does not.

I posted a report of budget manipulation – a form of dishonesty – now being practiced by the Republicans on the American people.

If you choose to be the champion for and defender of – DISHONESTY – be my guest.

The question, unstated, by begging and answer………….Just who and how do we expect to pay for the expenses of government and when?

Please don’t give me the sorrya$$ distractions of “waste and abuse”, cut worthless government programs” and the other many distractions from the issue at hand………….

We have bills now needed to be paid and someone must pay for them………….as implied by Republicans it’s going to be my/our grandchildren.

THEIR AIN’T NO FREE LUNCH…………THE BILLS MUST BE PAID.

AND THE ‘PUBES BEST STOP BUYING THEIR WAY TO POWER BY YELLING ‘LESS TAXES; SMALLER GOVERNMENT’ and then doing just the opposite.


reply posted on 10-6-2004 @ 09:35 AM by RANT
Originally posted by FreeMason
However, if we continue following Kynesian economics, our debt will one-day out-grow our ability to inflate our economy, and then we will fall.


I agree. It's the spending part that puts the voodoo in Reagenomics, and what makes GWB spending precisely everything his dad cautioned Reagen against.

But the model needs to be expanded. In principle there's a caveat that cancels some of this out by growing the empire. Which (without saying so, and promising he wouldn't) Bush is trying to do.

Uber capitalism (like communism) works well for those on top of the pyramid as long as there's a continuously growing base of support... China, India, etc. (Iraq?)

It's not so much that we beat the Soviets on spending as we halted their expansion. And an immobile sleeping shark eventually dies.

The US is no different. We've got to keep eating up the world and it's resources with our socio-political influence to maintain this economic model. In hindsight, we had a good run. On the forefront, we'll still be on top of the food chain for centuries. But I think at some point change is inevitable now. In many respects the US needed the counterbalance of the Soviets. It sure took a lot of the heat off us. But alas, be careful what you wish for.

And then there was one. This is where we get into the New World Order discussion. When there's basically one government, and the world is split into the three branches of consumers, retailers and producers...

Unless we're well into some aggressive space exploration, colonization and even other world 'domination" by then, I think the most workable economics model will have to be a form of socialism. The Star Trek model.

I'm not saying switch now. I'd just like to see a bit more flexibility in our economics. More realism, less dogma.

I know it doesn't seem 'realistic' to be discussing the required economic principles of the year 3000, but I'm pretty sure we're not as enlightened as we think we are. And are currently revelling in what will one day be called a dark, dark age.
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