Self Defense in the book of Revelations

Well revelations says that

" the saints will be overcome "

" Some of them will be put to death "

and you see, it doesn't matter. because it reinforces this passage.


" Fear noone who kills the body but not the soul "

sinners in this world who hate God have a second death after death. So we are not supposed to make a gigantic deal about staying alive by force as long as we are prepared spiritually.


So while worldy people fight back with force it causes a ripple affect and violence heaps on top of violence until we are at WW3 and revoltuions everywhere.


which god predicted would take place.


So I would advise like one poster in here said. It's a spiritual warfare in which force and violence will get you nowhere.


peace.,

[edit on 8-4-2010 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I do agree with your overall statement and I agree God is against violence in such a way it corrupts people. However, I am not afraid to die, I do not hate or fear God. However, the ones that "may put the saints to death" may not just simply put a bullet in their heads. They may suffer before that and THAT is where i feel FORCE needs to come into play to prevent unnecessary suffering. I am aware the odds of fighting and winning against an overall majority and authority are slim, but I believe that still qualifies as a martyr and defending your family till the end is honorable to me. I cannot imagine watching my daughter in horror as her family is easily and mercilessly put to death in front of her and her father doing nothing to prevent it. I will not have it and I feel God would be disgusted with me if I stood idle while such an atrocity occurred. No matter what twist Christian pacifists put on scripture, I refuse to believe God is THAT cruel.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

No god isn't that cruel, but humans are.

What good does violence do? They knock on your door and say. accept the microchip as our new id card or go to jail.


you take the lives of someone who isn't prepared to die, they go to hell. You continue living for how long? What if you die in a car crash the next hour.

The bottom line is OP. Is that god gives special graces and strengths for people to handle torture. Jesus had to undergo immense torture, but, he didn't avoid it but he offered it up for souls.

suffering brings much good for people. And to be honest some saints shared in his suffering with similar deaths and pains but they didn't avoid it.


I myself am too weak to go through before hand suffering that you mention. I understand that. But, I do remember the story in the Old testament about how Gods servants were in literal flames and didn't feal a thing.

Maybee God looks to see who will have faith to accept death at any cost and reward it through supernatural strengths.


The preparing you should do, don't arm yourself. Find a good hiding place if you fear something and hide out until this age has ended.


Force isn't going to do anything. Once marshall law happens, and the USA enconomy collapses, and that brings in the global currency, than most governements of the world will be on their side. You can't fight that with normal arms.

They will overpower you easily.


But again. You got free will. You can do what you feal needs to be done.

peace op.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by JesusisTruth]

To be worthy of the name of Jesus, one must confront evil and point out the truth, even if it means risking you life.
Only knowing the truth gets you nowhere.
We live by the broken body and spilt blood of Jesus, and he told his disciples to take it as food, meaning to live by that principle, that death is preferable to living a lie.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


1 Timothy 5:8 tells us "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse that an unbeliever."

God gives us strength to protect ourselves and provide. We cannot expect him to provide everything and that includes providing safety for your family including food and shelter. And safety, if need be, by the use of force.

Exodus 22:2-3 tells us "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

The scripture is quite self explanatory. God has stated to be all knowing and never changing. So His stance in Exodus I doubt has changed since the New Testament. So, all the pacifist twists on Jesus’ teachings would be contradicting to God’s original stance.

"Who trains my hand for war and my fingers for battle" (Psalm 144:1). The doctrine of Scripture is that we prepare and work, but we trust the outcome to God.

This meaning trust God’s strength in us and the outcome to be in His and our favor.

Consider Israel under Saul: The first book of Samuel tells of the turning away of Israel from God. The people did not want to be governed by God; they wanted to be ruled by a king like the pagan, God-hating nations around them. Samuel warned the people what they were getting into and the curses that would be upon them; if they persisted in raising up a king over themselves, their families against God. Included in those curses was the raising up of a standing, professional army which would take their sons and their daughters for their aggressive wars (I Samuel 8:11).
This would apply to the US today. Kings or (Presidents) working against God and his word which would result in a standing army against tyranny (Godless law) And God would not condemn this army.
In Proverbs 25:26 we read that "A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well."

Certainly we would be faltering before the wicked if we chose to be unarmed and unable to resist an assailant who might be threatening our life.

Bottom line: God is not against justified use of force. God would be cruel and an unjust God to persecute or condemn a Christian for avoiding unnecessary death or suffering through the use of force (violence). The God I know, the God I trust, and the true Christ and God, is not a true pacifist.

Read scripture, the truth is there. Those who are false witnesses will be judged and condemned.

No wonder so many atheists despise Christianity and think it’s merely mind control for the masses. So many pacifists spreading false testimony seems to be viral.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

" no wonder so many atheist think it's mind control for the masses "

YET

" read the bible the truth is there "

Ok so if the truth is there, how does it give athesit that conclusion? Some atheist think that because many don't want God to be real.


Now as for those passeges. Good work. I forgot those.

All I know is that this is the new testament era, and prayer and suffering is supposed to be done for souls even those who harm us because of them being led to the new sacrafice and sanctifying grace.


I don't think God would punish us for defending ourselves, But I do think it's pointless considering their number and that God is going to wipe them out supernaturally if we endure through to the end.

God also said. Blessed be the man who gives his life for my names sake.

so again. Interpret any way you want OP. Don't get me wrong. defending yourself is not a sin by God.



peace.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by JesusisTruth]

Ok so if the truth is there, how does it give athesit that conclusion? Some atheist think that because many don't want God to be real.

Yes, agreed but what i mean is that by presenting God and Jesus and a strict pacifist, to where violence is to not be tolerated in any way, whether in war, self defense, honor, or to avoid suffering is along the lines of insanity. I was getting an impression by many Christians, including my pastor, that justified force (violence) is wrong and will be condemned. This will appear to be madness to non believers and seen as an ancient method to keep populations under control to give them the idea that resistance is futile, self defense is a sin, you are to do as your told no matter what, and live and die like lemming. This is not Christianity and I wanted to make that clear.

All I know is that this is the new testament era

Yes, but some of my scriptures were from the new testament and ALOT of the old testament still applies today. Thou shalt not murder. That is old testament. Should that not apply? Of course, it still applies as many others scriptures do.

I don't think God would punish us for defending ourselves, But I do think it's pointless considering their number and that God is going to wipe them out supernaturally if we endure through to the end.

If I save my wife and daughter from just alittle suffering, my battle, was not in vain. I will make my stand, not for my selfish ways or out of fear of death, but for my family. My loved ones. Even if I may die in the process or them as well. I STILL will defend them to the end.

God also said. Blessed be the man who gives his life for my names sake.

whether its suffering or death, I will not denounce God. I do not fear death nor do I fear suffering. If I can help it, I will do everything within my power to keep my family from enduring it. Even if its at the cost of my own life. So YES I will HAPPILY give my life for His name sake.