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Water powered cars do not break law of thermodynamics

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posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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Before i begin, lets take a look at this
www.youtube.com...
There seems to be quite a few videos on youtube about these water powered cars. Some of it is a fraud, no doubt. But, is it really that hard to believe?
Here is a nice biased article on wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org...
Taken from the article
"The process of electrolysis, discussed below, would split water into hydrogen and oxygen, but it takes as much energy to take apart a water molecule as was released when the hydrogen was oxidized to form water. In fact, some energy would be lost in converting water to hydrogen and then burning the hydrogen because some heat would always be produced in the conversions. Releasing chemical energy from water would therefore violate the first and/or second laws of thermodynamics."
This is very important to understand, as this is the whole counter-argument to the water powered car. The question is, how can you say that it costs more energy to take apart a water molecule than it is to make one? Water is a naturally occurring phenomena. The energy required to make a water molecule is very miniscule. Electrolysis is a chemical reaction. Majority of the "energy" required is done so using a chemical reaction. There is no law of thermodynamics being broken here, its just a law thats misunderstood.

where are our water powered cars?

[edit on 6-4-2010 by demonseed]




posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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Youtube isn't working for me right now but I'm assuming this car uses uses the hydrogen split from water through electrolysis to burn as fuel? In which case the amount of energy needed to split the water is greater than that which is gained as fuel. Thus, the law is not violated.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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At long last, a do-it-yourself hydrogen fuel-cell kit
by Jim Mateja
Hydrogen fuel-cell cars eventually will eliminate U.S. dependence on foreign oil.
With a fuel cell, hydrogen produces electricity to propel vehicles.
No gasoline, no emissions.
But automakers say it could be 10 years or more before they can produce hydrogen-powered vehicles for the masses.A company called United Nuclear says it can speed the process. It sent an e-mail stating that it will produce hydrogen conversion kits for "individual owners to adapt their gasoline internal combustion engine vehicles to burn hydrogen."
Of course, converting your gas engine car to run on hydrogen is one thing ... finding a station that pumps hydrogen to fill it is quite another.
Relax.
United Nuclear said each kit "will include a device for making hydrogen at home."

www.energybulletin.net...


Bob Lazar's site: He was running a hydrogen powered car in the Nevada Desert near Las Vegas a number of years, check out his website.


unitednuclear.com...



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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But one does have to break faraday's laws of electrolysis to make the process worth your while. If you find a way to perform the electrolysis for less energy than faraday's 170 year old theories state then you have the breakthrough. Not just for cars but all energy generation would quickely get transfered if this was possible. Currently teams all around the world are finding ways to create catalysts to make the h2o split more feasable, but none has done it yet.

The other much more plausible method is to use energy from the environment (zpe) to aid the split. One just nudges the splitting into action and the energy drawn in from surroundings does most of the work. It has the illusion of over unity as one cant properly measure the zpe flux. It would appear to break the law of conservation because the energy into the system is not entirely understood by westurn physics.

Btw what is the law of thermo? I did thermo at uni and mate im pretty sure there are four of them, you should state which law you mean in your OP.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by polarwarrior]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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Physicist professor J.L. Finney's Institute of Royal Society article -- "what's so special about water?" explains that water is no longer H2O -- water is a "macroquantum molecule" and because water relies on tetrahedral molecular binding it is

negentropic

Meaning that as water expands when it freezes it does not lose information -- and this goes against the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

www.jstor.org...

rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org...



The HOH angle of its average geometry is, at ca. 104.5°, close to both the tetrahedral angle and the internal angle of a planar pentagon. This molecular geometry is, however, only an average—the molecule’s internal motions can be described by three normal modes of vibration, and the zero-point motion is significant.


As for the water powered car -- Stan Meyer relied on Dr. Andrija Puharich's patents -- which state that a special chamber using ultrasound creates a tetrahedral geometry of the water molecule. When the tetrahedron is formed then you get

cavitation -- a quantum splitting of the hydrogen and oxygen as fusion.

This occurs due to the ultrasound frequency resonance -- which is also the piezoelectric frequency. So the pressure creates piezonuclear fusion aka sonofusion.

Like Meyer, Puharich also had a water powered car. You can read his patents www.rexresearch.com...

So first of all you have to accept the principle which goes against standard physics -- and that's the biggest hurdle -- how people are brainwashed by standard physics. This is quantum frequency energy -- not classical thermodynamics.



The present invention involves a method by which a water molecule can be energized by electrical means so as to shift the bond angle from the 104°.degree. configuration to the 109°.degree.28' tetrahedral geometrical configuration. An electrical function generator (Component 1) is used to produce complex electrical wave form frequencies which are applied to, and match the complex resonant frequencies of the tetrahedral geometrical form of water. It is this complex electrical wave form applied to water which is contained in a special thermodynamic device (Component II) which shatters the water molecule by resonance into its component molecules --- hydrogen and oxygen.





Puharich refined system has a barrel-shaped cavity containing water. He introduces alternating current at 600 Hz. The cavity resonates with the impulses. Adding additional harmonics, cause the proton in the hydrogen atom to rotate, further forcing the hydrogen to split from the oxygen. Keely stated that water can be progressively dissociated at 620, 630 and 12,000 Hz (These are on the molecular, atomic and etheric levels respectively.) Puharich 600 cps is a harmonic of Keely's 12,000 Hz etheric level


[edit on 6-4-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 6-4-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 6-4-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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When you have a scaled up process, as the link says, it will not always be 100% efficient because there will be "side reactions." Let us say you are going to make hydrogen by zapping some water with electricity. Much of the electrical energy will be used to convert the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Some will be wasted as thermal energy.

The big thermodynamic argument is you need to get the energy from somewhere to create hydrogen fuel. Let us assume that tomorrow everybody's car runs on hydrogen. When the cars use the hydrogen, they "use up" (for lack of a better term) the energy in the hydrogen fuel. In order to refuel, the car needs more hydrogen fuel. In order to get more hydrogen fuel, energy has to come from somewhere to convert water to hydrogen and oxygen. It cannot come from hydrogen, because cars are using up the hydrogen fuel.



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