I think I read somewhere that the Bakken field is "oil in shale" and can be extracted as a light crude oil, without the need to be broken down by
heat treatments, if that helps.
You Better Sit Down For This, page 4
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reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 02:17 PM by Rook1545
reply to post by Aeons
The BC shale I am not familiar with to be honest. The shale I saw was from the US, and it had a ridiculous amount of wax in it. The problem was getting rid of the wax without burning off the petroleum, or gumming up the pumps and other machinery. It is possible to do it, just not feasible.
The BC shale I am not familiar with to be honest. The shale I saw was from the US, and it had a ridiculous amount of wax in it. The problem was getting rid of the wax without burning off the petroleum, or gumming up the pumps and other machinery. It is possible to do it, just not feasible.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:01 PM by bigyin
Originally posted by jazz10
reply to post by Aggie Man
I agree with your post, but the thing is india and russia are way ahead of this game. Alternative energy. possibly free and clean energy. I also think that the reason that it aint been used before now is also the fault lines. You empty an underground resevoir of oil and you will have a nice hole to fall into?
See when this oil/carbon is burned and the exhaust warms the atmosphere and this melts the ice caps and the sea rises ........ do you think these holes wud take up the extra water and save us all from drowning ?
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:04 PM by thomas_
reply to post by Aggie Man
This is a bit of a retarded way to think me thinks. So they are counting on the inability of men in general to come up with other sources of renewable energy?
Do you really think that in 2048 years from now we will still be using fossil based fuel to make our cars work?
I know crude oil is used in a whole bunch of different things but I doubt it's something that can't be completely replaced or have it's uses and applications diminished to a bare minimum with time.
This is a bit of a retarded way to think me thinks. So they are counting on the inability of men in general to come up with other sources of renewable energy?
Do you really think that in 2048 years from now we will still be using fossil based fuel to make our cars work?
I know crude oil is used in a whole bunch of different things but I doubt it's something that can't be completely replaced or have it's uses and applications diminished to a bare minimum with time.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:22 PM by Aeons
Are you unaware of the sheer number of things in your life that use petroleum products?
If every car in North America stopped using gas tomorrow - there would still be a vast market for petroleum.
If every car in North America stopped using gas tomorrow - there would still be a vast market for petroleum.
Originally posted by thomas_
reply to post by Aggie Man
This is a bit of a retarded way to think me thinks. So they are counting on the inability of men in general to come up with other sources of renewable energy?
Do you really think that in 2048 years from now we will still be using fossil based fuel to make our cars work?
I know crude oil is used in a whole bunch of different things but I doubt it's something that can't be completely replaced or have it's uses and applications diminished to a bare minimum with time.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:29 PM by austra
Hate to break it to you all but this is a bit of hype...
More recent estimates put the Bakken shale at 4 billion recoverable barrels. Quite a difference from 500 billion.... The Bakken is also being tapped already. Obviously it could be producing more, but there are companies there and producing already...
The other reserve in the Rocky Mountains is actually close to 2 Trillion barrels with 800 billion recoverable. Again, nothing to scoff at, but its not going to supply our oil for 2000 years. It's also at least 20 years from being tapped though since it is so far beneath the surface.
The bigger conspiracy than environmentalists blocking oil reserves in the US, is the Myth of Fossil Fuels.... Oil is renewable and not in limited supply...
Links:
Snoopes - Bakken Oil
Thomas Gold - Abiogenic Fossil Fuel
Modern Russian Theory of Deep, Abiotic Petroleum Origins
[edit on 6-4-2010 by austra]
More recent estimates put the Bakken shale at 4 billion recoverable barrels. Quite a difference from 500 billion.... The Bakken is also being tapped already. Obviously it could be producing more, but there are companies there and producing already...
The other reserve in the Rocky Mountains is actually close to 2 Trillion barrels with 800 billion recoverable. Again, nothing to scoff at, but its not going to supply our oil for 2000 years. It's also at least 20 years from being tapped though since it is so far beneath the surface.
The bigger conspiracy than environmentalists blocking oil reserves in the US, is the Myth of Fossil Fuels.... Oil is renewable and not in limited supply...
Links:
Snoopes - Bakken Oil
Thomas Gold - Abiogenic Fossil Fuel
Modern Russian Theory of Deep, Abiotic Petroleum Origins
[edit on 6-4-2010 by austra]
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:31 PM by spikey
reply to post by KrazyJethro
Hmm..baskets and eggs come to mind.
Putting a population through crippling taxation through fuel, while sitting on probably one of the worlds largest reserves, is not logical, even economically.
They envision they have valuable reserves, allowing them to dictate terms to the rest of the world for them to be setting prices and being an economic superpower for centuries to come?
Nope, i don't think so.
They think they can set whatever price for oil they want, and the world will come begging bowl in hand?
Nope again.
The world wouldn't do it.
We are moving along with alternative energy technologies at such a pace, oil as an energy source will more than likely be phased out quite soon, and something cleaner, much more efficient and cheap or close to free will be what the world will be using for energy, not oil.
Then they'll kick themselves when nobody wants to buy it, even at cost wouldn't they?
I think they know this is the case, so better to screw every last penny out of the public now using the cover of 'expensive, dwindling foreign oil, than to introduce a vastly cheaper domestic oil for $16 a barrel, and make nothing on it when they know that (despite efforts to suppress it) alternative engineering and development could replace their dreams of a 'future goldmine' and economic security, with simply, 'lakes of worthless oily sludge, overnight', they'd practically have to give away to shift it for plastics and other areas.
Hmm..baskets and eggs come to mind.
Putting a population through crippling taxation through fuel, while sitting on probably one of the worlds largest reserves, is not logical, even economically.
They envision they have valuable reserves, allowing them to dictate terms to the rest of the world for them to be setting prices and being an economic superpower for centuries to come?
Nope, i don't think so.
They think they can set whatever price for oil they want, and the world will come begging bowl in hand?
Nope again.
The world wouldn't do it.
We are moving along with alternative energy technologies at such a pace, oil as an energy source will more than likely be phased out quite soon, and something cleaner, much more efficient and cheap or close to free will be what the world will be using for energy, not oil.
Then they'll kick themselves when nobody wants to buy it, even at cost wouldn't they?
I think they know this is the case, so better to screw every last penny out of the public now using the cover of 'expensive, dwindling foreign oil, than to introduce a vastly cheaper domestic oil for $16 a barrel, and make nothing on it when they know that (despite efforts to suppress it) alternative engineering and development could replace their dreams of a 'future goldmine' and economic security, with simply, 'lakes of worthless oily sludge, overnight', they'd practically have to give away to shift it for plastics and other areas.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:33 PM by butcherguy
reply to post by Aeons
Very good.
Almost ALL of our food has some sort of plastic packaging today, then there are the drinks we consume, even motor oil is sold in plastic bottles!
A lot more of the parts on our cars are made of plastic today.
Furniture, clothing, bedding........ the list is seemingly endless.
Very good.
Almost ALL of our food has some sort of plastic packaging today, then there are the drinks we consume, even motor oil is sold in plastic bottles!
A lot more of the parts on our cars are made of plastic today.
Furniture, clothing, bedding........ the list is seemingly endless.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 03:48 PM by mintyformula
This item about untapped oil reserves in the Bakken formation (which lies within portions of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana) appears to have
been taken from a tout sheet intended to sell subscriptions to an investment newsletter. It is vaguely true in the sense that geologists have
estimated there is a good deal of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in that area, and as the price of crude oil increases and the technology
for extracting resources from formations like Bakken improves, that area becomes more and more economically viable as a source of oil for the U.S.
However, the estimate of over 500 billion barrels of oil to be recovered from the Bakken formation is an overly optimistic one based on incomplete,
outdated information.
A November 2006 report from the Energy Information Administration (EIA) stated that:
With new horizontal drilling and completion technology taken into account, the technically recoverable resource base for the entire Bakken Formation is potentially much larger. A draft study by the late organic geochemist Leigh Price provides estimates ranging from 271 to 503 billion barrels (mean of 413 billion) of potential resources in place. The study represents Dr. Price's work as it stood at the time of his death in August 2000. It was conducted while he was working for the USGS, but it did not receive a complete scientific peer review by the USGS and was not published as a USGS product. A new assessment of the entire basin, due out in about a year, will provide an updated USGS estimate of the technically recoverable oil resources in the Bakken Formation.
The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) released its assessment of undiscovered oil resources in the Bakken formation in April 2008, and although it reported a 25-fold increase in the amount of oil that could be recovered from that area compared to its 1995 estimate, the 2008 USGS estimate was still far short of the 503 billion barrel volume cited above:
North Dakota and Montana have an estimated 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in an area known as the Bakken Formation.
A U.S. Geological Survey assessment, released April 10, shows a 25-fold increase in the amount of oil that can be recovered compared to the agency's 1995 estimate of 151 million barrels of oil.
New geologic models applied to the Bakken Formation, advances in drilling and production technologies, and recent oil discoveries have resulted in these substantially larger technically recoverable oil volumes. About 105 million barrels of oil were produced from the Bakken Formation by the end of 2007.
The USGS estimate of 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of technically recoverable oil has a mean value of 3.65 billion barrels. Scientists conducted detailed studies in stratigraphy and structural geology and the modeling of petroleum geochemistry. They also combined their findings with historical exploration and production analyses to determine the undiscovered, technically recoverable oil estimates.
Certainly 3.65 billion barrels of recoverable oil is nothing to sneeze at, but a little perspective is in order. The U.S. currently imports an average of about 10 million barrels of oil per day (for a total of about 3.65 billion barrels of oil per year), so even if all the estimated undiscovered oil in the Bakken formation were extracted today, it would only be enough to wean the U.S. off of crude oil imports for one year. That's still a good thing, but it's not nearly "enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight" as claimed above.
read more here:
www.snopes.com...
A November 2006 report from the Energy Information Administration (EIA) stated that:
With new horizontal drilling and completion technology taken into account, the technically recoverable resource base for the entire Bakken Formation is potentially much larger. A draft study by the late organic geochemist Leigh Price provides estimates ranging from 271 to 503 billion barrels (mean of 413 billion) of potential resources in place. The study represents Dr. Price's work as it stood at the time of his death in August 2000. It was conducted while he was working for the USGS, but it did not receive a complete scientific peer review by the USGS and was not published as a USGS product. A new assessment of the entire basin, due out in about a year, will provide an updated USGS estimate of the technically recoverable oil resources in the Bakken Formation.
The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) released its assessment of undiscovered oil resources in the Bakken formation in April 2008, and although it reported a 25-fold increase in the amount of oil that could be recovered from that area compared to its 1995 estimate, the 2008 USGS estimate was still far short of the 503 billion barrel volume cited above:
North Dakota and Montana have an estimated 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in an area known as the Bakken Formation.
A U.S. Geological Survey assessment, released April 10, shows a 25-fold increase in the amount of oil that can be recovered compared to the agency's 1995 estimate of 151 million barrels of oil.
New geologic models applied to the Bakken Formation, advances in drilling and production technologies, and recent oil discoveries have resulted in these substantially larger technically recoverable oil volumes. About 105 million barrels of oil were produced from the Bakken Formation by the end of 2007.
The USGS estimate of 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of technically recoverable oil has a mean value of 3.65 billion barrels. Scientists conducted detailed studies in stratigraphy and structural geology and the modeling of petroleum geochemistry. They also combined their findings with historical exploration and production analyses to determine the undiscovered, technically recoverable oil estimates.
Certainly 3.65 billion barrels of recoverable oil is nothing to sneeze at, but a little perspective is in order. The U.S. currently imports an average of about 10 million barrels of oil per day (for a total of about 3.65 billion barrels of oil per year), so even if all the estimated undiscovered oil in the Bakken formation were extracted today, it would only be enough to wean the U.S. off of crude oil imports for one year. That's still a good thing, but it's not nearly "enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight" as claimed above.
read more here:
www.snopes.com...
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 04:12 PM by dthwraith
Same thread here. Abovetopsecret Posted by myself. Also debunked by myself as this is
fake.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 04:13 PM by unityemissions
reply to post by austra
Even if this turns out to be true there's several things to consider.
1. What purpose does oil have to the earth?
2. How much as a percentage can we extract before critical damage is done to the earth?
3. At what rate does this get produced?
4. How long does it take to reach these large depths, how economical and technically feasible is this?
5. How long are we until this can be reproduced in a lab with minimal resources?
I don't doubt that eventually we'll be off oil. What I doubt is that we'll not reach a major oil crisis before these new techniques are available for mass production. As the energy crisis sets in, modern civilization as we know it will cease to function. From this, our ability to further our tech, and make these options viable will be less and less as the days roll on. It's a race between technological progress and energy resources. I think it'll most likely get way worse, before it gets better. Most experts agree. We've got anywhere from a few good years, to a few good decades most likely. Personally, I think less than a decade before the jig is up, and serious collapses start becoming a reality.
Oh, and of course the other thing to consider is climate change anyways. We're already at 387ppm of carbon in the atmosphere. Depending on the expert, we're either passed the tipping point, about to pass it, or will within a generation or so. The tipping point being an estimated 2 degrees C rise in temperature.
Eventually (hopefully real soon) we'll be forced to go off of carbon all together. It seems the world is just waiting for the next genius to come along and stumble on a new way of providing our energy needs. The current alternatives don't even come close to filling the gap. We'll use all of them, and should, but it doesn't come close to what we're currently using with oil.
[edit on 6-4-2010 by unityemissions]
Even if this turns out to be true there's several things to consider.
1. What purpose does oil have to the earth?
2. How much as a percentage can we extract before critical damage is done to the earth?
3. At what rate does this get produced?
4. How long does it take to reach these large depths, how economical and technically feasible is this?
5. How long are we until this can be reproduced in a lab with minimal resources?
I don't doubt that eventually we'll be off oil. What I doubt is that we'll not reach a major oil crisis before these new techniques are available for mass production. As the energy crisis sets in, modern civilization as we know it will cease to function. From this, our ability to further our tech, and make these options viable will be less and less as the days roll on. It's a race between technological progress and energy resources. I think it'll most likely get way worse, before it gets better. Most experts agree. We've got anywhere from a few good years, to a few good decades most likely. Personally, I think less than a decade before the jig is up, and serious collapses start becoming a reality.
Oh, and of course the other thing to consider is climate change anyways. We're already at 387ppm of carbon in the atmosphere. Depending on the expert, we're either passed the tipping point, about to pass it, or will within a generation or so. The tipping point being an estimated 2 degrees C rise in temperature.
Eventually (hopefully real soon) we'll be forced to go off of carbon all together. It seems the world is just waiting for the next genius to come along and stumble on a new way of providing our energy needs. The current alternatives don't even come close to filling the gap. We'll use all of them, and should, but it doesn't come close to what we're currently using with oil.
[edit on 6-4-2010 by unityemissions]
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 04:28 PM by Americanist
Originally posted by Aggie Man
Originally posted by Socristotle
This is an interesting story that I had forwarded to my email account about the a huge amount of natural crude oil discovered in the Western United States in 2005. Why aren't we tapping into this untouched gold mine yet to take some stress off of the tax payers pockets?... Well That's exactly why I'm posting this.
www.usgs.gov
(visit the link for the full news article)
My theory on this is that the US will use up the oil resources around the world, saving the US oil for last. At that point, we can charge out the wazoo for it; thus, returning the US the economic super power status.
Never use your own resources when you can get them somewhere else. Reserves are crucial for our longevity...and some day the US will literally "make the world go around"...what will the middle east be selling? Sand?
I'm used to this philosophy... In fact, it makes complete sense. However, by the time our neighbors run low on oil we'll simply be using it for manufacturing. Oil will essentially be a non-factor, so all we've done in that region is fuel their lifestyles and wage conflict with wars. Take a look at what has been released as current technology then imagine a decade out.
Try to debate with me, and I'll cite a whole slew of energy sources. Enough to provide a substantial amount of redundancy as well.
reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 04:36 PM by zzombie
Sorry to rain on the parade, but it makes no difference even if bakken was the largest oil deposit in the world.
Supply and demand of oil are manipulated by the hand full of companies who control 90% of the market.
The largest oil reserve on the planet was drilled tapped and sealed under an act of national security in about 1976 in prudhoe bay alaska.
The Non-Energy Crisis
Environmental groups like the Sierra club are funded by the oil companies to keep competitors out of the market.
According to Dr. Steven Greer the so called "energy mafia" has warehouses full of suppressed energy inventions that could have freed us from oil decades ago. (at the moment I cant find the video where he said he briefed a senator on this)
www.theorionproject.org...
oops forgot a couple of quotes whale were on the subject:
"Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people." -Henry Kissinger 1970
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. ....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
[edit on 6-4-2010 by zzombie]
Supply and demand of oil are manipulated by the hand full of companies who control 90% of the market.
The largest oil reserve on the planet was drilled tapped and sealed under an act of national security in about 1976 in prudhoe bay alaska.
The Non-Energy Crisis
Google Video Link |
Environmental groups like the Sierra club are funded by the oil companies to keep competitors out of the market.
According to Dr. Steven Greer the so called "energy mafia" has warehouses full of suppressed energy inventions that could have freed us from oil decades ago. (at the moment I cant find the video where he said he briefed a senator on this)
www.theorionproject.org...
oops forgot a couple of quotes whale were on the subject:
"Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people." -Henry Kissinger 1970
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. ....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
[edit on 6-4-2010 by zzombie]
Wall Street has gamed the system to keep oil prices high despite increased domestic production.
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