Debate With a Soldier - Very Pertinant To WikiLeaks Video

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posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by earthdude
I too do not believe my freedom is being fought for, and I actually think our misguided troops are endangering my freedom. I stated this fact at work today during lunch. They are preparing a cross outside so they can nail me to it as punishment for my words. It takes a real man to stand up to an Army supported by warmongers. Stand up and be real, men.


Hi Earth,
I agree with you, and you have to ask just how misguided are the troops, when you see a video like Wiki's, you have to wonder exactly what kind of language troops are indoctrinated with when they join, or is the language specific to a particular war arena, and different somewhere else? and take the video again, part of the early transcript was like "that looks like a RPG, and that's a AK" when it came to a request to fire on the group, it was then "Five or six men carrying Ak's and RPG'S" You also have to ask was there noone at a higher level monitoring that particular guy's account for consistancy and so on. As another poster on the wiki thread pointed out, could the same thing happen on the streets of New York, say in a time of civil strife, or those stupid gang wars?




posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Really you dont know why? Let me paint you a picture. A war that was started for the profits of a few oil, weapon manufacturers, drugs, resources in ground like rare metals. A country back were this started, were many cant find jobs and there is/will be political strife. Now you want to bring back hundreds of thousand of soldiers back to that climate. I dont think so, all war is deception. The profit of a few will have to be turned in to the profit for many. The usa will be in the region for a while unless you can come up with something were every soldiers that returns will have a job. Who knows why obama is not bringing the troops back maiby he thought that if he becomes president he can wave a magic wand and fix everything-only i dont think he is as stupid as gw bush. None of the solutions will be simple. I respect any soldier that does his job well, war sittuations arent easy.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by diamount
The whole 'fighting for your freedom' was true in WW2 and heck even the Vietnam War.. but not anymore.

Poor naive fools.


Actually they are fighting for you economic well being fool. Saddam Hussein controlling oil is not a positive thing. Any intelligent person would realize Saddam had to go. He invaded kuwait if you remember and could have invaded saudi arabia controlling 1/4 of the world’s oil.

Now the WMDs was to get the ignorant public behind the war and honestly there was a decent chance saddam had WMDs. They actually recently found a buried warhead and they found yellow cake uranium.
Here is the fact. Saddam was an economic threat which is just as serious are nuclear weapons pointed at us. We have had a blockade on Iraq since 1991 and he routinely shot at our planes, which could be argued was justified. Saddam wanted to use a different currency instead of the US dollar with oil transactions. Now Bush wanted to deal with saddam now instead of twenty years from now when he regains his power. Having an enemy control your economies life line is not intelligent.
Soldier and Marines can fight over there because with all the pain and suffering they believe Afghanistan and Iraq will have a better future.
The selfishness on this board proves how self centered many Americans are.
The articles argument with the soldier is honestly horribly written and sounds pretty sophomoric. He doesn’t seem very intelligent at all. The guy in reality doesn’t know jack about the military nor war. My grandfather served, great most people’s grandfathers served moron. The fact is he never put on the uniform, not even in a support capacity.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by eikmun

Originally posted by diamount
The whole 'fighting for your freedom' was true in WW2 and heck even the Vietnam War.. but not anymore.

Poor naive fools.


Actually they are fighting for you economic well being fool. Saddam Hussein controlling oil is not a positive thing. Any intelligent person would realize Saddam had to go. He invaded kuwait if you remember and could have invaded saudi arabia controlling 1/4 of the world’s oil.

Now the WMDs was to get the ignorant public behind the war and honestly there was a decent chance saddam had WMDs. They actually recently found a buried warhead and they found yellow cake uranium.
Here is the fact. Saddam was an economic threat which is just as serious are nuclear weapons pointed at us. We have had a blockade on Iraq since 1991 and he routinely shot at our planes, which could be argued was justified. Saddam wanted to use a different currency instead of the US dollar with oil transactions. Now Bush wanted to deal with saddam now instead of twenty years from now when he regains his power. Having an enemy control your economies life line is not intelligent.
Soldier and Marines can fight over there because with all the pain and suffering they believe Afghanistan and Iraq will have a better future.
The selfishness on this board proves how self centered many Americans are.
The articles argument with the soldier is honestly horribly written and sounds pretty sophomoric. He doesn’t seem very intelligent at all. The guy in reality doesn’t know jack about the military nor war. My grandfather served, great most people’s grandfathers served moron. The fact is he never put on the uniform, not even in a support capacity.


You said a lot of things with not one verifiable source and not a from a 'he says she says' blog, until you've done that everything you say is completely your opinion based on second hand sources.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by banegame
 




All things being equal, any soldier willing to fight for a country so corrupt, has lost his/her moral compass.


I think the ire for the war turning on the soldiers is misplaced. There is a huge population of soldiers that have served in Iraq. A handful of videos from one group or another doing despicable things is expected in the video age. The vast majority of those that volunteered after 9/11 are doing so because they wanted to defend our country back when New Yorkers were running around cursing and vowing payback. It was a hyper-emotional time period. Whether you believe 9/11 was an inside job or not or whether Iraq was involved or not - I don't believe our anger should be on those that were willing to sacrifice their lives to defend the country.

The point is they thought they were defending the country and they did an honorable thing by signing up, just as those that ran to volunteer after Pearl. The final outcome - their trust was abused by TPTB.

I just don't agree with painting everyone serving in Iraq with a broad brush. They aren't all killers, they aren't all hungry for their next kill as the recent Iraq movies want us to believe. They are young men and women, brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers. This type of us versus them thing is the what TPTB want.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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I think it's important that everyone understands that yes the military is corrupt, there's zero doubt about that.

But also it's important to understand that every country needs a military for national defense. Unfortunately most troops are overseas in over 120 countries where they shouldn't be.

National defense is still important though, and it is difficult to defend that position when even national guardsmen are overseas now, I understand that. But just wanted to say that nonetheless because some are saying why join a corrupt military.

reality makes it a difficult stance to defend but it is true nonetheless.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by diamount

Originally posted by eikmun

Originally posted by diamount
The whole 'fighting for your freedom' was true in WW2 and heck even the Vietnam War.. but not anymore.

Poor naive fools.


Actually they are fighting for you economic well being fool. Saddam Hussein controlling oil is not a positive thing. Any intelligent person would realize Saddam had to go. He invaded kuwait if you remember and could have invaded saudi arabia controlling 1/4 of the world’s oil.

Now the WMDs was to get the ignorant public behind the war and honestly there was a decent chance saddam had WMDs. They actually recently found a buried warhead and they found yellow cake uranium.
Here is the fact. Saddam was an economic threat which is just as serious are nuclear weapons pointed at us. We have had a blockade on Iraq since 1991 and he routinely shot at our planes, which could be argued was justified. Saddam wanted to use a different currency instead of the US dollar with oil transactions. Now Bush wanted to deal with saddam now instead of twenty years from now when he regains his power. Having an enemy control your economies life line is not intelligent.
Soldier and Marines can fight over there because with all the pain and suffering they believe Afghanistan and Iraq will have a better future.
The selfishness on this board proves how self centered many Americans are.
The articles argument with the soldier is honestly horribly written and sounds pretty sophomoric. He doesn’t seem very intelligent at all. The guy in reality doesn’t know jack about the military nor war. My grandfather served, great most people’s grandfathers served moron. The fact is he never put on the uniform, not even in a support capacity.


You said a lot of things with not one verifiable source and not a from a 'he says she says' blog, until you've done that everything you say is completely your opinion based on second hand sources.



I've been to iraq many times and the chemical warhead thing was not correct actually, it was found around 2003 and was empty.

So ok just focus on the sources because i think you are avoiding my arguement. Iraq did not have WMDs like we were told, but Iraq should have had a regieme change.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by thotrong
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


this is horrible and an outright lie where do you get this number from and who killed them the us military really you are a sad misinformed individual

How am I a "sad misinformed individual" for stating a fact that many people already know and that was widely publicized in 2009?


TOP 25 CENSORED STORIES FOR 2009

#1. Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation


Sources: After Downing Street, July 6, 2007 
Title: “Is the United States Killing 10,000 Iraqis Every Month? Or Is It More?” 
Author: Michael Schwartz

AlterNet, September 17, 2007 
Title: “Iraq death toll rivals Rwanda genocide, Cambodian killing fields” 
Author: Joshua Holland

Reuters (via AlterNet), January 7, 2008 
Title: “Iraq conflict has killed a million, says survey” 
Author: Luke Baker

Inter Press Service, March 3, 2008 
Title: “Iraq: Not our country to Return to” 
Authors: Maki al-Nazzal and Dahr Jamail

Over one million Iraqis have met violent deaths as a result of the 2003 invasion, according to a study conducted by the prestigious British polling group, Opinion Research Business (ORB). These numbers suggest that the invasion and occupation of Iraq rivals the mass killings of the last century — the human toll exceeds the 800,000 to 900,000 believed killed in the Rwandan genocide in 1994, and is approaching the number (1.7 million) who died in Cambodia’s infamous “Killing Fields” during the Khmer Rouge era of the 1970s.

ORB’s research covered fifteen of Iraq’s eighteen provinces. Those not covered include two of Iraq’s more volatile regions — Kerbala and Anbar — and the northern province of Arbil, where local authorities refused them a permit to work. In face-to-face interviews with 2,414 adults, the poll found that more than one in five respondents had had at least one death in their household as a result of the conflict, as opposed to natural cause.

Authors Joshua Holland and Michael Schwartz point out that the dominant narrative on Iraq—that most of the violence against Iraqis is being perpetrated by Iraqis themselves and is not our responsibility—is ill conceived. Interviewers from the Lancet report of October 2006 (Censored 2006, #2) asked Iraqi respondents how their loved ones died. Of deaths for which families were certain of the perpetrator, 56 percent were attributable to US forces or their allies. Schwartz suggests that if a low pro rata share of half the unattributed deaths were caused by US forces, a total of approximately 80 percent of Iraqi deaths are directly US perpetrated...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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I support our military

I am proud to say I will be in the army by next year.

God bless America



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


"Put him in his place". Bullcrap. Once again, some putz saying, "I've never been in the military, but my family has, so I know it all."

He doesn't have Clue One, but that's no surprise.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by belial259
These soldiers aren't representing me and don't hit me with that propaganda about wearing a uniform. Anyone who volunteered for the military any time in the past 10 or so years would have done so with a reasonable expectation of being deployed to Iraq, a war fought on entirely false pretences.

If there had been an actual threat I'd have put on the uniform. But there wasn't. Isn't. And never has been. This is an unjust war and the military and everyone in it that VOLTUNEERS to fight can just cop the blame.

They're the dupes that bought the propaganda and signed away their lives for New World Order.

I'm not going to support these kind of people. I'll probably end up fighting them.
The majority of people who join the army don't join because of believing in propaganda but because they're destitute and really don't have many options in their financial matters. The poor fight a rich man's war.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by Chad_Thomas89
The majority of people who join the army don't join because of believing in propaganda but because they're destitute and really don't have many options in their financial matters. The poor fight a rich man's war.

African Americans sell drugs, steal cars, and play basketball.

Asians can't drive and have a lot of cameras.

If you're going to believe the stereotype of, "Everyone in the military was poor and had to join", you might as well believe them all.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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Picture this, it is the United States the year 2010, and Iraq is the super power who has the greatest military in the world. Iraq’s goals are to control the world’s energy and drug sources around the globe.

Iraq stages a false flag operation by blowing up their famous landmarks and fly their own commercial airliners into their tallest buildings killing everyone on board and in the buildings. The Iraq government televises the whole event, reporters and experts in the Iraq media make claims that terrorist in Canada did the whole operation.

Iraq could have sent in their own CIA into Canada and quietly taken out the terrorist, it would have been that easy. No, instead Iraq launches a full-scale war against the United States.
There is no evidence that the United States had any involvement in the attacks, yet the Iraqi people are convinces that the United States was behind the attacks, because they were lied to.

Now picture this, there is a black hawk helicopter flying in down town Atlanta GA, and CNN angora man Anderson Cooper and his camera crew are walking to their SUV and talking on their cell phones, probably talking to their wives or their bosses. Because of the war that has been going on for many years, no one really pays much attention to military helicopters that are “always” flying around day and night.

However, on this day a bunch of Iraqi men flying in these helicopters notices a bunch of men walking towards a SUV and they see something long on two of the men shoulders, not thinking of zooming in on these men with their own cameras to see if these men are carrying guns, no instead they “assume” these men were carrying guns.

The Iraqis gun down all of these innocent men killing all of them except for one who is crawling away with half of his leg blown off, then out of the blue your wife or mother who had “your” two kids in her van and was heading to the house and just happened to drive by and seen all the dead bodies on the road and she see the one surviving man crawling away bleeding to death in agony, pleading for her to help him, she knows she cannot just leave him there to die, she couldn’t live with herself if she did. She stop the van and runs and grabs the bleeding man and proceeds to drag his body into the van, meanwhile these trigger happy bloody thirsty soldiers commenced firing their weapons and blows your mother or wife head off her shoulders in front of her two kids “YOUR” kids and each of those kids took a bullet in the chest, because they happened to be there.

Then moments later an army tank comes around the corner running over Anderson Cooper body and the Iraqi soldiers are laughing their heads off.
Later on, these soldiers reviewed their recorded account that they had filmed and celebrated laughing about what they had accomplished poking fun at how the bodies fell. Just think you get to hear how delighted these MONSTERS were at killing YOUR mother or wife and innocent bystanders and shooting your children and their excuse for shooting these poor kids was, well mother shouldn’t had them with her!



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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The American people would start attacking back at some point; there would be many terrorists’ cells in America who would want revenge. The hatred would only grow towards the Iraqi people, and rightfully so.

In reality this is us, this is what we have done! We are to blame we sat back for nine years people, we did NOTHING! Absolutely NOTHING! We attack a country that had nothing to do with 911.

We the people know better we know these wars are based on lies their blood are on our hands and we will pay the prices when we die, when we are confronted with our life review. Most of us just sit in our comfortable homes, drive our gas guzzling heaps, and feed these oil barons who are behind these two illegal wars.

Young men who join the military are ignorant of the truth they “are told” they are fighting for our freedom; little do they know they are really fighting for oil rights and gaining control of the worlds drug crops.

Sorry folks, I am an American, I am disgusted with what we have done and the arrogance in our military and government is appalling, this is not the great country I grew up in. These soldiers are not the kind of Americans that represents this Nations, what they did was plain evil, sick twisted thinking, and a sick sense of humor. These soldiers need professional psychological help, God help us all.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 


Agreeing with you or not, I must salute and star both your posts for your approach to the subject.

It feels good to finally see someone taking the good steps in approaching the whole subject. With different perceptions, respect, and hope for best days.

Kind regards, my friend!



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


ModernAcademia many thanks for your outstanding post that says it all and there is nothing I can add to it but say job well done.

Starred and Flagged!

Thank you.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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"That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’ "

Thank you ModernAcademia for putting it in such a moving and eloquent way. I'm going to copy and paste that to the yahoo discussion about this story. I'm still amazed by all these so called Patriots that claim to hate terrorists but turn around and make comments like kill them all, nuke the whole middle east etc. They seem to just want to kill everybody not like them. Are they really the scared little bedwetters that they appear to be? A real man, a man of honor and integrity will own up to his mistakes, and take accountability for them. All is see from these neocon and hatebagger types is shifting of blame, disinfo, somehow trying to equate 9-11 with Iraq, and willful ignorance to any facts which contradict their preconceived prejudices. Is it any wonder so many no longer call themselves republican? The conservative movement has lost all credibilty because of these people. And from reading the comments on yahoo, they are still playing the same old games, using the same old arguments, still offering nothing constructive to help us get through the problems at hand. I think they are going to be the death of the conservative movement once and for all.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Chillidog1
"That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’ "


This is the quote that's pretty much BS. Yes, a Soldier that disgraces his uniform brings disgrace on the entire country, but this ass-hat saying, "If I say you dishonor it, then you did!", is crap. Unless he's been walking a mile in that troops boots, he doesn't know what's going on.

And please, give the, "My entire family has been in the military, so I know what's going on" comment a rest. Until you yourself has actually served, you don't have any idea what it's like.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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I can't speak for today's military, but when I was involved in hostilities it was never, for the most part, considered in defense of any particular person, administration or government entity, but in the defense of ideals, principles, and your own butt. If you look at the US Army's "This We'll Defend" emblem, you'll see symbols and colors that represent such as Duty, Honor, Courage, Country (no mention of Dems or Repubs, etc) and other ideals. No pictures of the Capitol, or White House, or even the Constitution (some may argue the presence of the flag implies constitution), although there is a reference to the War Department to recognize when the US Army adopted the emblem/seal. So, when a Soldier is called to engage in battle, they don't give a rats butt about the president, they don't care about the fatcat contractors making a bundle (they might grumble about it once in a while), but rather they're concerned about staying alive and keeping their buddies alive, and in doing so many do honorable things along the way - even if people back home can't understand honor.

Soldiers join the military for a plethora of reasons, but once deployed and in the sh*t, I assure you that in between the boredom, the firefights, and the latrine duty, that they're thinking mostly about going home. If you think a US soldier, for the majority, has the NWO and world domination on his mind, you're dead wrong.

As for the mental preparation for battle, I'm here to tell you point-blank that the average soldier will, and needs to, dehumanize the enemy. It's a part of the training process, and it's a necessary tool to convince anyone who is not a psychopath or sociopath to kill someone. As shocking as it may seem, the 1st Earth Battalion will not get it done in the trenches.



posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



thank you for this ModernAcademia!!!! i've been saying this for years, and guess who the only person to not tell me how communist or what kind of terrorist thinking is? my cousin who served in afghanistan.


he continued to tell me that "i hate when people just start kissing my ass and buying me drinks or paying for my bill at applebee's. they have been brainwashed into thinking they owe it to me. you're right in the fact that my uniform represents the people of the united states. all the citizens of afghanistan see of america is us (soldiers), who kick in doors and shoot up their families, drop missiles and tanks on and in their schools. the things we've done, if they did that to us, i'd want their country burned to the ground. we do these things, and the citizens think this is what the people of america wants, so you are hated for it."


that was a quote taken from a conversation i had with my cousin over instant messaging.

my heart goes out to the poor inocents who pay for the agendas of TPTB and to the soldiers who have to die for it.


[edit on 7-4-2010 by Hardstepah]






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