Debate With a Soldier - Very Pertinant To WikiLeaks Video

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posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by cyberspacekaiser
 


You realize that you are speaking english, and not german, because of soldiers, right?

You realize that war is not a thing invented by the Bush administration, that humanity itself is based on war, right? This "devil" thing is starting to wear off.



Oh, and by the way, the orders I choose to follow, I know about them.

You, on the other hand, keep eating orders without even realizing it.

Just because I use a uniform, doesn't mean that you are more free than me. Much the opposite in this case.

reply to post by Stewie
 


Don't judge what you don't know.

You don't know me, don't judge me. It's simple.

My anger? It was a little rant against ignorance and stupidity. Clearly stated on the last paragraphs.

I'm not psychologically disturbed or anything that guys like you keep throwing in, like *thinking* knowing how a soldier feels or thinks.


Do not blame others for the decisions you make. Your reality, and the consequences of YOUR decisions will ultimately rest on YOUR conscience alone. Of course, others may die as a result of your actions.


It's easier to blame the soldiers than to take the responsibility for being so ignorant when voting people to control the soldiers, isn't it?


Please do not imagine that I NEED your protection. I DO NOT.


Yes, you do. I'm not imagining it. I know it. Me, and other operatives have stopped it, more than once.

Just feel free to float around in your dream cloud that everything is fine with the world.

You're in for a great surprise.


I DO ask that you never point your rifle towards ME for not understanding your pain. Because I think I do. I wish I could help YOU.


Pain? What pain?

You don't get it, do you? I don't have any problem, it just pisses me off that people can be so stupid, and so blind, and yet, claim to have any reason on their side.

But it doesn't affect me personally. I don't have any problems with it.

I get up, I do my job, and I know what I did and why.

You don't. So don't try and analyze me or judge me, because you can't.


Your anger belies your feelings of guilt. Find your way out of the darkness.


Guilt? Guilt of what? Keep world free of the weapons that I destroy? Grow up, please. Not every soldier is a cliché.

reply to post by slank
 


"newsflash honey", who do you think leaked out that information? A super-uber-duber-reporter?

Are you really that ignorant to think that information like that leaks out without any control? You are way out of your league of comprehension.

You are trying to throw in my face information that the place you accuse of being liar, actually gave to you.

If you weren't taking this so seriously, I would think it was a joke.


You aren't killing terrorists,
you are creating them in every greater numbers,
which makes YOU the terrorist.


No, I'm not killing terrorist. I'm a sniper, and I use .50 cal rounds to take down military gear. My targets aren't human.

I am killing your ignorant, twisted logic though.

And it as beautiful head-shot to see people arguing and using the same principles of the people that they criticize so much.

I guess it's a love-hate thingy.



...and by the way "honey", what creates more terrorists, are people like you who refuse to think before VOTING FOR OBAMA! YES!!! YES WE CAN!!!.....




[edit on 5/4/10 by Tifozi]




posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Tifozi
 


I am a combat experienced veteran that fought on the front lines of the blitzkrieg to Baghdad from Kuwait. I/we killed people and people killed and wounded us (but not me). Green Beret and CIA (Delta Force) was attached to my unit once we got to Baghdad. I know about combat as I/we were in one of the biggest firefights of the invasion.

I am here to tell you that I was ignorant when I joined the Marine Corps, I was ignorant of this and I am sure that you are too:



This video is so true. The Federal Reserve makes money off of wars, guess what the Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank, owned in part by the Rockefellers. We never did find terrorist tunnel networks in Afghanistan like Rumsfeld told us we would find (but we are running pipelines). Iraq didnt have WMD's (I was ignorant about David Kelly too, and the irony of no fingerprints on the knife he supposedly killed himself with).

"By having this war on terror you can never win it (because it was false flag that started it)." [I know its going to take a while for some people to understand this dynamic]

"How are you going to convince everybody this war is real?"
"By the media, the media can convince everybody its real by you keep talking about things, saying them over and over and over (throughout all of the news agencies) and eventually people will believe it." How many times have you heard about Bilderberg on Prime Time? It wont happen because Bilderberg owns the news, and the Rockefellers are lifetime Bilderberg members.

Now we are going to go into Iran. Believe it. However don't bash the soldiers so hard, that sickens me. They, like me, were conditioned since the cradle. They grew up pledging allegiance to the flag... grew up thinking Oswald killed Kennedy... anyways... Iran is next. Who is ignorant now?

[edit on 5-4-2010 by WarloriousCreed]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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*applause* Wow, this is just amazing. Imagine this one person saying these words infront of others. Even if it got to just one person, or even if it started a seed of change in one human mind, then it would have all been worth it.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by WarloriousCreed
 


No, I'm not ignorant about it.

I'm not american, so I have a very abroad perspective of how the US handles things, without being emotionally attached to the subjects.

Another thing that I stated is that I don't enjoy clichés, and I don't enjoy being answered back with post-formatted answers.

I am not the everyday war supporter.

I don't support this wars. I don't support the Obama administration, I never did support the Bush administration.

The fact that people are continually ignoring this bit is just further proof of their blindness for reality, and how they can only see one very twitchy scenario, the one fed by the media and the internet propaganda.

You, my friend, should be able to recognize the line that I draw on the floor, between respect for the soldiers that actually fight to keep our world a better place, and the situation that is in our current world, where we have two major BS(in case everyone missed it and thinks BS is military talk, BS MEANS BULL-#) wars.

Furthermore, I'm talking about a minority of soldiers, not the whole pack.

But sadly, because of discussions like this, people don't know about the small operations in the world, to keep peace and restore a little more safety.

They only know about crappy arguments and thematic youtube videos.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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Tifozi:

...and by the way "honey", what creates more terrorists, are people like you who refuse to think before VOTING FOR OBAMA!


you are f-ed up.

btw i did think about voting for Obama, before he broke his own promise on FISA, afterwhich i voted for Nader.

Let me guess you voted for irrational McCain & the ditzy psychobabbler Palin?

yes?


too rich, you are a cliche'.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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If i were speaking German right now it would be because of soldiers,

German soldiers.

So your point is What?



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by slank
 



If i were speaking German it would be BECAUSE of soldiers, German soldiers.

So your point is WHAT?


My point is that it's up to the citizens to choose wisely who they put in power.

THAT'S the difference between saving the World from the Nazi, or being the Nazi.

Get it? The soldiers are just pawns.

Ignorant insults against soldiers is nothing but pathetic.


It isn't the uniform that matters it is what or who chooses or doesn't to wear it.


You contradict yourself.

So soldiers are a bad thing. But then, it's up to the individual to choose what to wear, and if to wear the uniform, to make it matter and have honor.

...so, why do you keep trashing the people that wear it with honor?


You think that a US military uniform is somehow magic?


I don't know. I've never tried to fly in one.


Germans under Hitler were aggressors, baseless aggressors making excuses.

Like um, WMDs in Iraq perhaps?


I'm sorry, but this doesn't even make sense.

So you want to compare a nation that was humiliated in WWI by the rest of Europe, causing it to want to attack the whole world (and take over it) and not even hiding their objective, with a country that disguises his purposes with proxy wars and bogus wars?

You really want to compare a ideological war versus a business war? Really?

Because, if so, you're just showing how much you understand of worlds politics and history..........nothing.

Maybe they should make a youtube video explaining real history, so you could understand it.


Never ending nation building in Afghanistan?


Well, you see, if you haven't ignored my previous posts, and only absorbed the part in which I say I'm in the military (and ignore the whole part that I'm not even american, or that I don't support this wars, and so on), you would have realized that there is not only that going on in Afghanistan.

YEs, there are illegal deals being done there. But, sadly, the good work being done is completely eclipsed by this bs war.


Look in the mirror & see yourself for what you are,

a fraud,

a uninformed, uniformed fraud.


I'm always ignorant, that's why I enjoy learning.

But trust me, it's not from you.

[edit on 5/4/10 by Tifozi]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by slank
Tifozi:

...and by the way "honey", what creates more terrorists, are people like you who refuse to think before VOTING FOR OBAMA!


you are f-ed up.

btw i did think about voting for Obama, before he broke his own promise on FISA, afterwhich i voted for Nader.

Let me guess you voted for irrational McCain & the ditzy psychobabbler Palin?

yes?


too rich, you are a cliche'.
Have you read one thing this guy has said? Hes not even American......



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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If you are being attacked by the snake which part of the snake do you ignore as not being the 'snake' part of the snake?

I am sure many German NAZIs thought they were highly honorable.

They looked so good, so sharp in their uniforms.

AND when 'support the troops' is a phrase used to cover up a bad, obscene or war criminal policy,

One does what one needs to do,

that is the ADULT way.

If a US troop stands between me & his criminal commander then i will go around him or straight through him if he stands in the way.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by SiKFury
Have you read one thing this guy has said? Hes not even American......


And because he's not American he doesn't matter right? He's inferior and so is his opinion?

Gimme a break.

Let me ask you this. Given that Americans are foreigners to me shouldn't I feel the same?

Shouldn't we all have felt the same when our countries sent our soldiers to your war.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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I am not going to direct this toward anyone, I am going to just say it out loud like I am speaking to myself.

We all know evil and just exists in the world. Even if we are spiritual or non spiritual.

Yes, defense is a fine endeavor, do not get me wrong, I myself will kill in the face of evil.

There is a thing called CONTROL that will never change the manner of man. Does anyone think that the US became as great as it has because that we were a controlled society? Only when the controls have been applied have we begun to diminish in our true calling.

Freedom is just a word, just as control is. Let me ask you a question, has prohibition of any activity worked? Has negative reinforcement ever worked except in laboratories involving rats in a maze?

Humans are sentient beings. Any force to try and create an outcome is a false outcome. Force to inhibit any characteristic in the human condition has always failed. Force of any human attribute has always recoiled to the inherent outcome-backlash.

The more you try to control chaos, the more chaos unfoils. Yes, certain things need to be stopped. Certain things need to be actually destroyed. One is pure evil. I have seen it, 95% of people in the LEO field has seen it. 50% of people in the military field have seen it. Sometimes in their own ranks.

You cannot control that kind of evil. Some would say that as the most powerful nation on Earth it is our destiny to try and show the world what freedom can inspire.

Let me ask you a question. Have you personally ever, EVER, learned a lesson by someone showing you something without doing it yourselves?

You cannot teach Freedom, it can only be earned.




posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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If you aren't a person before you are a soldier then all the uniforms in the world won't make you a good soldier.

It should be about people, & the tag or title soldier should be perfunctory.

Would you follow an unlawful order? In the military you are required to follow orders.

Either a soldier is a human being or he/she turns quickly into a monster.

Generals & commanders don't care if they have monsters filling their ranks.
That is why it is essential that militaries be under civilian control,
& that civilian populations not be spun by Pentagon type propaganda which is i believe illegal in this nation.

As for my concerns with the Afghan & Iraq wars, they are costing my treasury, disgracing my country & killing hundreds of thousands of innocent foreigners & creating rather than reducing terrorism.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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Seriously? A completely one siding verbal beating, conveyed by someone to someone else has you all mesmorized and enlightened?

Everything said by the man to the soldier sounds just to scripted. You're all fawning over a phantom.

We all know soldiers represent us when they wear the american unifrom. Soldiers know this. They are the face of our foriegn policy. Perhaps they shouldn't be, but that's not the case.

Seems to me like a pompous windbag telling a whopper when he really caught a minnow.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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This is just wrong. That soldier was just a head strong over confident fool who spoke up without know what the hell is going on. And the man's response, saying even though he's never served he knows ALL about the service, he's wrong. Even if you've grown up around a full military family, you can never ever know ALL about the service we do. I know this from experience of being in a military family and serving myself.

This country is too soft. Everyone runs to the nearest blog to complain about this or that. Everyone claims to have the inside information, to know just what the hell is going on without ever being there. You're soft, and weak. You're feeding in to the fear and paranoia they want you to feel.

reply to post by Tifozi
 


You're definitely one of the smarter, if not smartest, people here. Well, logically speaking. One of the only logical and rational people who speak what is and what has been. Thanks.

[edit on 1046 by Echo3Foxtrot]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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I'm just curious as to what particular freedoms of *mine* are being defended in regards to the goings on in that video. From what I can see, my freedoms aren't being defended at all. JMHO.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by Asherah
 


Of course your freedoms are not being protected. Imagine this, 4000 miles away they are enforcing some kind of law. We do not know what the law is, since we never hear # about what is going on over there.

We do hear about the Idol tournament though.

I am sorry, I am just getting sick and tired of continuous war. We have been at war since frelling Korea.

God Bless and Peace.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Tifozi
 



I caNNOT believe this thread has received this much attention

Maybe, the mods should open a new category called Benedict Arnold Anonymous

It would be great family fun, a bunch of people bashing their country, despite the notion that their country gave them the freedom to voice their opinion, sans middle of the night kidnapping and subsequent torture.

Isnt that IRONIC? You COMPLAIN and whine about the very same great nation, and young men, that fight to maintain your ability to whine and complain.

On a further note, what exactly gives you the notion that you are so important that you deem yourself a higher authority than our great military leaders, and even the POTUS himself?! You think that you deserve to deem which military skirmishes are worth your approval? Even when you cannot possibly know all the facts, only what your precious MSNBC tells you each morning. There is nothing wrong with doing independent research and coming to your own hypothetical conclusions. What irks me, is this sudden attitude I have noticed on ATS that can only be described as condescending criticism.If you really consider yourself a fellow countryman, and have problems with the way this country handles its foreign policy, why not put your money where your mouth is? Go run for office, prove to people that your opinions and ideas are so grand that they warrant societies votes in order for you to fulfill them. If you are only voicing the general consensus in your opinions, then surely you will be heard in a positive light, and as long as you can provide your original birth certificate, you should be well on your way into the world of politics!

It is definitely not constructive for either side of the aisle to write each other off. At this stage of the game, we need new faces in our government system to come up with new ideas.

I truly understand your concerns and I can see how being a liberal, you're a little detached from reality on matters of national security. That is forgivable, such as you cannot blame a child for being innocent on matters that are beyond his comprehension. You think just because your family served in the armed forces, you somehow have some insiders look into what needs to take place?

Why are you not a cabinet member of Obama? Or maybe you are?

In a perfect world, you and I would be friends, agreeing on the aspect of peace and understanding, even forgiving your fellow man for misdeeds and breaches of trust.

Yet, this is 2010, and we are human beings, basically glorified animals, running wild with loaded guns. Is it not our duty to put down the dangerous animals that continue to kill, rape, and maim the innocent? Is it our fault if we try to do the right thing, and somehow, despite our careful planning, training, and execution, we still from time to time have accidents?

Is it not worth it to attempt to do a good thing, and in the process kill a hundred good men, just to save a thousand?

Personally, I dont know all the answers and definitely will NEVER claim to.

I will do my best to not pass judgment on those who think as a polar opposite to my own beliefs

But, when people go around acting like its their way or no way at all, unwilling to even attempt to see where others are coming from, seeing themselves as someone who is so important, he can decide whether its a good reason for young men to die in the name of their country or not, to me is just plain narcissism.

I bid you good day sir



[edit on 6-4-2010 by WhiteDevil013]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


this is horrible and an outright lie where do you get this number from and who killed them the us military really you are a sad misinformed individual how about the ruler of that nation for more than 20 years how many did he kill now for the rest of you i dont want our young men and women there at all anywhere in that region we are there for isreal and i am not sure that is in our best interest anymore the isrealis have always had and have a problem due to religeous differences we need to get our people out lets all get on the same page and stop with the 911 conspiricy(sp) talk and get after the people who make our young men and women face this danger the represenatives of our states congress house senate make your voice heard outside of ats get off you azz and vote write letters emails protest do what is necessary lets get our young men and women home do something and stop bickering on a website that only a few visit



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by slank
 


Read this, over and over again:


Originally posted by SiKFury
Have you read one thing this guy has said? Hes not even American......



This is what we call in my country (he read what I said... He read that I'm not american) a slap with a silk white glove.


AND when 'support the troops' is a phrase used to cover up a bad, obscene or war criminal policy, One does what one needs to do, that is the ADULT way.


The adult way? The adult way is using reason, logic and good sense.

Bashing the troops, just because you disagree with your government, is as childish as can be. You think too high of yourself.


If a US troop stands between me & his criminal commander then i will go around him or straight through him if he stands in the way.


Criminal commander? You mean the one you elected?

Keep going. I'm loving to see you finding excuses and people to point the finger at, instead of assuming your own responsibility as a citizen.


If you aren't a person before you are a soldier then all the uniforms in the world won't make you a good soldier.


You can see the light. And you can actually present some good points. But it's sad how you're submerged under anti-war propaganda.


Would you follow an unlawful order? In the military you are required to follow orders.


Wrong.

A soldier is only obligated to follow LEGAL orders.

You see, this is how I can pick up people who are "mentally fat" by eating anti-war propaganda. You know why? Because this is a clear sign that your opinion is based in those youtube videos where "real soldiers" speak against war.

I'm not against soldiers having an opinion, but I've a problem with soldiers that do their job and keep quiet, following illegal orders, and then come out to release books and go to press conferences crying "I did this, I did that, but I was following orders...snif snif".

Well, like you said earlier "newsflash honey"... A soldier doesn't have to follow illegal orders, nor commuting crimes.

Only very special units do that kind of job, and most of them are undercover.

People who follow orders that they know are wrong, are as guilty as the people who gave those orders.

Court Martial isn't a execution. It's a trial, a trial where truth is found, and responsible are brought up to justice.

I was in court martial twice, for not following orders that I knew were illegal and were against my moral standards, and the moral standards of the society I represent/defend.

Since I know what is right, and follow that path, I was considered innocent on both occasions and the officers that gave the orders where..."punished". But I kept my medals, but I kept my job. Because I acted upon my conscience and moral standards.


Either a soldier is a human being or he/she turns quickly into a monster.


You know why so many soldiers loose their minds and "turn" upside-down? Because of people like you, who keep attacking the easy target, the average soldier. Most of them fall into the illusion of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, and instead of having support from their very own people, trying to get them out of there, supporting them and attacking the people who sent them, you choose to attack the soldiers them-self's.

So, now a soldier knows that he is in a false war, that he is being used to immoral purposes, but when he faces his own people, in order to gain support, he is insulted in so many different ways.

And people even wonder why soldiers start to behave like they do... Abandoned by their government in a false war, and by their own people who fail to see the real responsible powers. Must be a "good" feeling!


That is why it is essential that militaries be under civilian control,
& that civilian populations not be spun by Pentagon type propaganda which is i believe illegal in this nation.


That's why it's important to vote for the right people to be in power, so the President in power knows how to apply his military.

Which, clearly, isn't the case.





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