Debate With a Soldier - Very Pertinant To WikiLeaks Video

No ones ever going to get a chance to debate the president in a public setting. As eloquent as Obama is it wouldn't be hard to make him stumble up on the immorality and illegality of this war.

Then again that's asuming he cares about people when there is much evidence to the contrary.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I for one am glad to see anyone advocating war brought back to reality. Its sad how little real human progress we've made over the millennium.

I am a veteran. I was in the Army during Desert Storm and I was stationed in Germany. All the young officers and troops in my unit were gung ho to go. One night in the rec room there were some guys and a young officer, and myself playing pool. Each one in turn talked about how they were ready to go and kick some Iraqi butt. I remained silent and finally the young officer asked me if I was ready to go. I told them that if ordered to go that I would go and do my duty but, that it was about oil, and that was the only reason we were there. The young officer got a little upset with me. I called him by name and said "Sir, if you want to go over there and be a hero...go. But when your child ask your wife why did daddy die in the war? She can tell him, so that we can gas at $2 a gallon instead of $6. My name was mud after that conversation. My unit was shipped out a few months later as a peace keeping mission, but I was sent on a temporary duty assignment.
I am so tired of our men and women being world police. We need to tend to our own business and protect our own borders. We have everything we need in this country to be self sufficient, but we insist on sticking our noses in every oil pit we can find.
Oil is the key. If it is not involved, we are not involved. Just follow the oil trail.
Seeashrink

Great post academia...

the ignorance is not limited to blind Americans on american soil. it bleeds out into the military... fighting for false beliefs.

i am glad that marine was put in his place, maybe he learned something!

War is sad,when someone dies in service, their army mates are affected,the loss is felt by their parents,spouse,children, siblings,cousins,aunts and uncles,grandparents and friends.
A lot of people mourn for every one person that dies.
Maybe you are lucky and none of your army friends get killed, BUT then again ,maybe one of the enemy gets shot, and he loses family,like was mentioned above.but if it was you that killed the enemy,you will be thinking of the mans family, how would they support themselves (there may not be a social security system and so have to work many hours while supporting children.)
We are so ignorant when we are young, then as we age we mature and see the truth behind war ,like vast fortunes that are made,or extra power that has gained, but others spout off the propaganda that has brainwashed them.
At the end of the day we are all here having this journey of life,we never asked for it,if we can enjoy it as much as possible,to help rather than hurt others then our own pain should be less.
If both sides refused to fight ,then there is NO war, but then again ,NO extra money is made.
The money saved on weapons that are never used could pay for better schooling, hospitals,farming equipment to feed the poor.
Whats the difference between a rich man and a poor man ????
money,only money.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I agree a lot needs to be changed, S&F thanks for sharing.

The thing here is though, is that nothing is going to change, it's sad... I stated in the wikileak video thread something just like this... I don't want to give up hope, but hope seems lost at this point. Are only chance is to unbrainwash the masses and allow them to see things from their point of view, not the point of view that is instilled into them by the MSM.

If we can get through to people, we can make a change. Until then, all the videos in the world can be shown about the killings of innocent people, the rapes, and the torture from the war but it will not change anyones (or not many) minds on much because of what they are TOLD to feel, and because of what they are TOLD the think.

THINK for yourself. ACT for yourself. DEFEND yourself!

Originally posted by seeashrink
I am so tired of our men and women being world police. We need to tend to our own business and protect our own borders. We have everything we need in this country to be self sufficient, but we insist on sticking our noses in every oil pit we can find.

Thanks for standing up for the truth, but I take exception to the notion that we're the "world police".

More like the global mafia.

The people who defend American freedoms are American citizens,

not some psycho wearing a US military uniform committing atrocities.

If you support your civil rights & American freedoms you have to stand up & defend them verbally, politically & if necessary with your 2nd amendment right.

These Pentagon & military psychos are trying to take away your constitutional rights at every turn.

They are like mafia thugs selling you 'protection',
'protection' from the violence they will be inflicting on YOU.

If you haven't put in the requirement of human standards of decency under all but the very worst circumstances, then you have no business putting on a US military uniform.

There is a lot of treasonous sh;t parading around in US military uniforms,
most notably the top Pentagon brass & all their revolving door corruption.

reply to post by slank


Are you suggesting that we would be the country we are now without uniformed services? Would we be sitting at our PC's right now typing slogans and rhetoric if we had no uniformed services from 1811 to now? Would we be calling mom mum?

Peace...............yak055h

Originally posted by seeashrink
I am a veteran. I was in the Army during Desert Storm and I was stationed in Germany. All the young officers and troops in my unit were gung ho to go. One night in the rec room there were some guys and a young officer, and myself playing pool. Each one in turn talked about how they were ready to go and kick some Iraqi butt. I remained silent and finally the young officer asked me if I was ready to go. I told them that if ordered to go that I would go and do my duty but, that it was about oil, and that was the only reason we were there. The young officer got a little upset with me. I called him by name and said "Sir, if you want to go over there and be a hero...go. But when your child ask your wife why did daddy die in the war? She can tell him, so that we can gas at $2 a gallon instead of $6.

Man, your a hero in my book buddy!
I just added you as a friend
Starred post!

Thank You on behalf of humanity for being a man of integrity!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


What's a solider?

Originally posted by andrewh7
What's a solider?

Who are you asking?
me or war profiteers?
There's dictionary definition and reality!

Kissinger said that "soldiers are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy"

Dictionary would say someone who serves the commander and chief.

I say the answer is somewhere in between.

What are you asking, reality or dictionary definition?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


He was making fun of your spelling. you said solider you meant soldier.

It wasnt some deep question.

I'm sorry, I really am, but I'm also sick and tired of your ignorance.


I know how it feels to have a soldier dying in my hands, and/or while trying to rescue them. YOU DON'T.

I know how things are there because I was shot at, insulted, chased and attacked. YOU DON'T.

I know how american (since I'm european) soldiers really feel about this, when they do see how things really are. YOU DON'T.

Everyone, even my kid who is 5, knows the BS war in Iraq and Afghanistan. EVERYONE CAN SEE THAT, okay? You're not a genius, you're not enlighten by your "research" in Google (who is censured by the way).

But ANY, ALL, of you who come here and open your mouths about anti-war crap, don't know ANYTHING about anything.

STOP being fools who follow what other people say!

You come here, behind your laptops, talking and judging the people who wear a uniform, calling them all sorts of stuff, judging everything along the way. Their intellectual capabilities, their knowledge about the world... you name it, for every soldier out there, there is a comment to be added.

And you know what? You're simply, and completely ignorant!

Go ahead, "debate" all you want, say whatever you want. But don't forget to ad to your post, in the end: "P.S.: I'm a ignorant person who doesn't have a slight idea of what's REALLY going on".

I'm tired of ignorants who claim to know it all about these wars, and "that people over there", how things work, who is innocent and who is guilty, and this ignorant folks make me even laugh, because they are even MORE ignorant by not even realizing that they are answering to "the other side of the story" using arguments, figures, situations provided by THE SAME SIDE THEY ATTACK.

I don't want to rock your world, but the data that you so happily use AGAINST the military, is....guess what...given BY THE MILITARY and/or the U.S. Government.

Explain me, PLEASE I DARE YOU, that you explain to me how the hell you can get the real picture, what is really going on, how can you possibly figure out who is who and what is what, with data that is corrupted on it's own source.

Because, what you fail to see, is that the good and the bad is given by the same source. MEDIA. Media, which, is controlled by the government. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SAY THE THINGS YOU DO WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?!

It's like throwing at the governments the stones that they gave you in the first place.

Never heard of "there is no such thing as bad publicity"? I've trained and orientated young recruits who enlisted after "enlighten debates" like the crap posted in here.

You want to hear the true side of the story? AIM HIGH! Search and interview spec ops soldiers who actually hunt down REAL terrorists all around the world, for example. People, like the average soldiers, who are not making the cleaning jobs that you see on the news.

I was in operations where I KNOW that were good intended. Where I know we did good, when we prevent some bad doings in the world, or even in US itself. And I have to take people trashing the very few good we make, just because nobody can separate BS from truth?

You think that there aren't terrorists out there? You are so BLIND by the media concept of terrorist (the one you even say that doesn't exist), that you completely overlook the real threat!

The guy with a towel in the head that screams "death to america. Ala may have mercy on Bin Laden" doesn't exist? OF COURSE NOT.

That was a character, the same as "japs" were in WWII, to motivate and move people in the direction they wanted: fighting the WWII.

The "terrorists" and the "japs" are very alike. Because BOTH were created under a image that was supposed to motivate people to act.

BUT does it mean that there wasn't a Japanese threat? No. The war was real, the attacks and aggressive intentions were real.

BUT does it mean that there aren't ANY terrorists in the world threating civilian and innocent lives? No. There are terrorists, there are threats, there are even attacks, attempted attacks and so on, and THANK GOD that you don't hear about them in the news, because if this crappy propaganda putted out by the media gets you moving like this, I can't even imagine what people would say if they realized HALF the stuff that really goes down.


Please, by all means, continue, ENFORCE, promote knowledge and investigation of the conspiracies to star wars like Iraq, Afghanistan (the democracy excuse) and so on. Do so! Your country and the world needs it!

But do it the right #ing way!

Debate how things got out of control, how politics are messed up, what you can do to change it and change the world. It doesn't matter to us (soldiers in the field) if the problem was created by the US government itself years ago by giving weapons and money to "terrorist organizations".

IT DOESN'T MATTER! Doesn't matter because NOW there are actually people who bought that crap, ON BOTH SIDES, and people actually enlist and go after this organizations!

People from your own very country (YES, USA) leave the country and go to this countries (or similar) to enlist in terrorist movements! Because for 1000 people who is against all this crap, there is 1 who buys into the propaganda of the "other side", and actually tries to do damage to YOU, who has a peaceful way of live.

WAKE UP!

Stop trashing the soldiers that die and fight OVER YOU. You can cry, roll on the floor, laugh and yell all you want. The fact that you can speak up whatever you want in this boards, is because the soldiers you spit on are doing their job making a safe wall around your country.


Before thinking this:

The soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are cleaning up the mess and profit of people like Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

Think of this:

The soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan that die and fight over there, are part of the real situation. A situation where are guys like Spec Ops and other operatives doing real job in keeping the real world safe.

Soldiers, that are over there, DYING and FIGHTING, LOOSING THEIR MINDS, are really over there, because I (inserted yourself in here, regarding your position on this subject) was a MORON and can't vote in the right people to be in power.

OBAMA said on his early campaing that he was going to remove troops from Iraq to reinforce the troops in Afghanistan.

Now geniuses of anti-war, tell me, who won the elections?

YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE IT! YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO END IT!

What did you say? "Yes we can".

But you still let young boys die.



I'm sorry for the pseudo-rant, and the frontality, but bare in mind that I'm sick of people following movements like sheep. I'm tired of people who just yell "NO WAR" and don't understand what is really going on, treat the REAL problems. Don't make the mistake of believing that you are safe, just because you think a part is made-up. YES, it is. It is all bull-#, IT IS for OIL. But there are REAL PROBLEMS that are solved, but never get to the news. THOSE people who risk their lifes to make YOU safe (dangers, consequence of this BS wars, yes, it is true) do it even knowing that they are in a BS war.

RESPECT THEM!

But mostly, it saddens me to see the american people attacking their own soldiers, just because people don't understand who is really responsible.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Shouldn't you be a lot more careful with who you quote?

You realize that you just used Kissinger as a defense of your "peace" stand, yet Kissinger himself is responsible for most of the acts you feel so comfortable in criticizing, right?


If you are aware of who Kissinger really is, I can't understand why you even use his quotes so much (yes, I know it's not the first time you use it).

If you are not aware, that only shows how people are so easily manipulated into talking crap about soldiers, without even checking what they are saying.

[edit on 5/4/10 by Tifozi]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Thank you, that really touched me. No one has ever said that to me before. I can't really express what that means to me. Thank you so much.
Seeashrink

In 1776 they didn't need prissy assed uniforms,

they had a MISSION,

a RIGHTEOUS, THOUGHTFUL mission based on REAL experience of living under tyranny.

If the mission of decency, humanity respect for the constitution doesn't go in the prospective soldier long before [s]he is even recruited, then the uniform should NEVER be put on.

Some REQUIRED civics classes would be well in order, starting in grade school.

People don't even have to agree with it, but they are required to understand how it works.

I am sick of all the treason, betrayal & looting of America by scum hiding behind US military uniforms, waving flags & swinging bibles or economic treachery.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by slank]

Originally posted by Tifozi
I'm sorry, I really am, but I'm also sick and tired of your ignorance.


I know how it feels to have a soldier dying in my hands, and/or while trying to rescue them. YOU DON'T.

I know how things are there because I was shot at, insulted, chased and attacked. YOU DON'T.

I know how american (since I'm european) soldiers really feel about this, when they do see how things really are. YOU DON'T.

Everyone, even my kid who is 5, knows the BS war in Iraq and Afghanistan. EVERYONE CAN SEE THAT, okay? You're not a genius, you're not enlighten by your "research" in Google (who is censured by the way).

But ANY, ALL, of you who come here and open your mouths about anti-war crap, don't know ANYTHING about anything.

STOP being fools who follow what other people say!

You come here, behind your laptops, talking and judging the people who wear a uniform, calling them all sorts of stuff, judging everything along the way. Their intellectual capabilities, their knowledge about the world... you name it, for every soldier out there, there is a comment to be added.

And you know what? You're simply, and completely ignorant!

Go ahead, "debate" all you want, say whatever you want. But don't forget to ad to your post, in the end: "P.S.: I'm a ignorant person who doesn't have a slight idea of what's REALLY going on".

I'm tired of ignorants who claim to know it all about these wars, and "that people over there", how things work, who is innocent and who is guilty, and this ignorant folks make me even laugh, because they are even MORE ignorant by not even realizing that they are answering to "the other side of the story" using arguments, figures, situations provided by THE SAME SIDE THEY ATTACK.

I don't want to rock your world, but the data that you so happily use AGAINST the military, is....guess what...given BY THE MILITARY and/or the U.S. Government.

Explain me, PLEASE I DARE YOU, that you explain to me how the hell you can get the real picture, what is really going on, how can you possibly figure out who is who and what is what, with data that is corrupted on it's own source.

Because, what you fail to see, is that the good and the bad is given by the same source. MEDIA. Media, which, is controlled by the government. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SAY THE THINGS YOU DO WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?!

It's like throwing at the governments the stones that they gave you in the first place.

Never heard of "there is no such thing as bad publicity"? I've trained and orientated young recruits who enlisted after "enlighten debates" like the crap posted in here.

You want to hear the true side of the story? AIM HIGH! Search and interview spec ops soldiers who actually hunt down REAL terrorists all around the world, for example. People, like the average soldiers, who are not making the cleaning jobs that you see on the news.

I was in operations where I KNOW that were good intended. Where I know we did good, when we prevent some bad doings in the world, or even in US itself. And I have to take people trashing the very few good we make, just because nobody can separate BS from truth?

You think that there aren't terrorists out there? You are so BLIND by the media concept of terrorist (the one you even say that doesn't exist), that you completely overlook the real threat!

The guy with a towel in the head that screams "death to america. Ala may have mercy on Bin Laden" doesn't exist? OF COURSE NOT.

That was a character, the same as "japs" were in WWII, to motivate and move people in the direction they wanted: fighting the WWII.

The "terrorists" and the "japs" are very alike. Because BOTH were created under a image that was supposed to motivate people to act.

BUT does it mean that there wasn't a Japanese threat? No. The war was real, the attacks and aggressive intentions were real.

BUT does it mean that there aren't ANY terrorists in the world threating civilian and innocent lives? No. There are terrorists, there are threats, there are even attacks, attempted attacks and so on, and THANK GOD that you don't hear about them in the news, because if this crappy propaganda putted out by the media gets you moving like this, I can't even imagine what people would say if they realized HALF the stuff that really goes down.


Please, by all means, continue, ENFORCE, promote knowledge and investigation of the conspiracies to star wars like Iraq, Afghanistan (the democracy excuse) and so on. Do so! Your country and the world needs it!

But do it the right #ing way!

Debate how things got out of control, how politics are messed up, what you can do to change it and change the world. It doesn't matter to us (soldiers in the field) if the problem was created by the US government itself years ago by giving weapons and money to "terrorist organizations".

IT DOESN'T MATTER! Doesn't matter because NOW there are actually people who bought that crap, ON BOTH SIDES, and people actually enlist and go after this organizations!

People from your own very country (YES, USA) leave the country and go to this countries (or similar) to enlist in terrorist movements! Because for 1000 people who is against all this crap, there is 1 who buys into the propaganda of the "other side", and actually tries to do damage to YOU, who has a peaceful way of live.

WAKE UP!

Stop trashing the soldiers that die and fight OVER YOU. You can cry, roll on the floor, laugh and yell all you want. The fact that you can speak up whatever you want in this boards, is because the soldiers you spit on are doing their job making a safe wall around your country.


Before thinking this:

The soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are cleaning up the mess and profit of people like Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

Think of this:

The soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan that die and fight over there, are part of the real situation. A situation where are guys like Spec Ops and other operatives doing real job in keeping the real world safe.

Soldiers, that are over there, DYING and FIGHTING, LOOSING THEIR MINDS, are really over there, because I (inserted yourself in here, regarding your position on this subject) was a MORON and can't vote in the right people to be in power.

OBAMA said on his early campaing that he was going to remove troops from Iraq to reinforce the troops in Afghanistan.

Now geniuses of anti-war, tell me, who won the elections?

YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE IT! YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO END IT!

What did you say? "Yes we can".

But you still let young boys die.



I'm sorry for the pseudo-rant, and the frontality, but bare in mind that I'm sick of people following movements like sheep. I'm tired of people who just yell "NO WAR" and don't understand what is really going on, treat the REAL problems. Don't make the mistake of believing that you are safe, just because you think a part is made-up. YES, it is. It is all bull-#, IT IS for OIL. But there are REAL PROBLEMS that are solved, but never get to the news. THOSE people who risk their lifes to make YOU safe (dangers, consequence of this BS wars, yes, it is true) do it even knowing that they are in a BS war.

RESPECT THEM!

But mostly, it saddens me to see the american people attacking their own soldiers, just because people don't understand who is really responsible.

Respect? What respect have they actually earned? Soldiers ... police ... ultimate sheeple, they love taking orders and then bullying them along. Respect ... earn some. It feels good.

I'm sick and tired of 'mercas' odd love affair with making everyone in any kind of uniform a 'hero', instant. Not worth that much like that however. The former soviet union loved itself it's 'Heros' too.

The truth is free, it's staring you in the face. Your shouting know it all attitude sheds no light.

Sheeple love orders.
peace
c

reply to post by Tifozi

Your anger is misdirected. You should recognize the real enemy of your own humanity.
Do not blame others for the decisions you make. Your reality, and the consequences of YOUR decisions will ultimately rest on YOUR conscience alone. Of course, others may die as a result of your actions.
Please do not imagine that I NEED your protection. I DO NOT. I DO ask that you never point your rifle towards ME for not understanding your pain. Because I think I do. I wish I could help YOU.
We should all join the side of humanity. Against evil.
Don't become evil, and then question humanity.
Your anger belies your feelings of guilt. Find your way out of the darkness.

Newsflash honey.

Osama was [is?] on the CIA payroll.

Just like:

Saddam Hussein,
Noriega,
Karzai's drug lord brother,
Eric [Blackwater psycho] Prince.

The Pentagon LIES about everything.

WMDs,
Marjah,
Abu Ghraib [where the filmed rapes of boys & girls is still being covered up by a complicit congress],
Haditha,
Gitmo.

Treason, Pentagon is thy name.

You aren't killing terrorists,
you are creating them in every greater numbers,
which makes YOU the terrorist.