Debate With a Soldier - Very Pertinant To WikiLeaks Video

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posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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From a reader in LA comes this account at a debate of his debate with a soldier who claimed he was defending our freedoms.



To be brief, the debate was about the morality of having U.S. troops continue to be garrisoned in Iraq and Afghanistan. I took to the mic and pointed out that we should not have been there in the first place, and that the ONLY sane, legal, and moral thing to do was get out. A young soldier in the audience stood up to protest my position using the standard boilerplate sloganeering we’ve come to expect from the Cheney-O’Reilly-Hannity-Limbaugh-Beck crowd. At the end his tirade which included Neocon gems like “I fight for your freedom” and “we’re there so we won’t have to fight them here,” I offered the young warrior the chance to give me the name of the group who was trying to take my “freedom” away from me. He stumbled for a moment, then (almost shouting) stated “those people hate you and would as soon cut your throat as look at you.” I told him my question was “who was trying to take my freedom from me,” NOT “who was trying to cut my throat.” He then said “are you going to let them get away with 9-11″? I replied, “who is THEM, young man?” I told him, “if you are suggesting the Iraqis had anything to do with 9-11 then you are woefully misinformed.” After going back and forth trading salvos (actually, it was just about me debunking one boilerplate statement after another), he really got my ire by grabbing the collar of his shirt and stated “It’s people like you who disgrace MY uniform.”

At this point, I never had so much clarity descend upon me. It was like some power reached into my brain and told me what to say. Without even thinking, I said, ”Let me tell you something, SON! I know ALL about the service, even if I was never in it myself. My entire family on both sides has served in a military at one time or another. Both sides of my family fought for the Confederacy, my grandfather fought in France in WWI, My father was a decorated Marine, and my Uncle is a Bataan Death March survivor. So, I’m no stranger to the military. However, I can tell you this, you are ALL WET about WHOSE uniform that is and WHAT IT MEANS! My father, who was a peaceful and gentle man, came home from WWII with the Navy Cross and a revulsion of war — as did my uncle. They both became staunch advocates of non-interventionism and a belief that to defend your own shores is the highest calling. Anything else is simply premeditated warmongering. I learned many things from my father, but the most important thing he ever told me about being a soldier was this…,and I’m going to pass it along to you.


That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’


I did not enjoy putting this kid in his place, but I have seen this swaggering demand that “our” troops have for our unconditional and fawning deification of the military. I respect the military and those who serve to a point. After that, however, they must earn any additional respect. And, so far, “our boys” have lost mine

www.lewrockwell.com...



I think that this is a discussion that is very important to everyone and we all should realize what the uniform means.

That wikileaks video for example, those men in uniform in that gunship were representing YOU!

Just like when 9/11 happened everyone thought that muslims were all terroists.

What do you think the iraqis think of Americans after being more knowledgeable and seeing the wiki video?

That wiki video is probably one incident of perhaps hundreds, perhaps even thousands.

I think some serious, very serious, soul searching is needed!

Our entire set of beliefs need to change ASAP!

 

mod edit, spelling in title

[edit on Mon Apr 5 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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Yes!! I agree with you totally and emphatically.

I can't add any more to this. You've said it all in a nutshell.

Thankyou...

S7F For you.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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Excellent post with a great messge. That uniform does represent our views. If we allow individuals to misrepresent it as we have, we get the world rep that have. Problem is, how to enforce representation of our views on those ordering around the uniforms. Thanks for the post.


Ex

posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Starred and Flagged!
The truth will set us free!



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’



couldn't be more spot on,

i wish i could give this a hundred stars.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 




Very poignant and extremely valid.

Great thread MA.

Can't really add a lot to that can ya?

All I can say is I would love to have been there to listen to that guy.


You know it makes me laugh.... all those people who say we're out there to protect our citizens and if we weren't then we would have been attacked or invaded or whatever..... It's ridiculous.... there is no reason that we are out there other than money .

And maybe test out a few of our weapons... ya know.... a bit of practice.


+1 more 
posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’
*******************************************************
I can agree your post with one exception; the uniform may belong to you but it passes to you through the people that you, or we, elected to have the military do their, or our, bidding. The uniform has your name on it only in the form of the American flag. If your wishes are not being honored don't debate the soldier, debate your the representative. On every base and outpost in the world there is a chain of command posted on the wall in HQ. The top of the chain of command is not a picture of you but of the Commander in Chief that you/we/they elected.

Please don't debate with the person at the bottom of that chain of command while YELLING, as YOUR post SHOWS, but debate with the one at the top which you will probably find a little tougher that launching on the soldier doing the bidding of your President.

Peace...........yak055h



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by yak055h
If your wishes are not being honored don't debate the soldier, debate your the representative. On every base and outpost in the world there is a chain of command posted on the wall in HQ. The top of the chain of command is not a picture of you but of the Commander in Chief that you/we/they elected.

Please don't debate with the person at the bottom of that chain of command while YELLING, as YOUR post SHOWS, but debate with the one at the top which you will probably find a little tougher that launching on the soldier doing the bidding of your President.


I would agree with you in a perfect world
Unfortunately that's not where we live in

GIs refusing to continue an immoral war was one of the reasons for the end of the Vietnam War, among other reasons of course.
It definately helped.

If what you were saying made complete sense there would be no use for propoganda.

You have to approach the situation from all angles since focusing on only one angle, which you are suggesting, will be futile.

So I could not agree with you on that



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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These soldiers aren't representing me and don't hit me with that propaganda about wearing a uniform. Anyone who volunteered for the military any time in the past 10 or so years would have done so with a reasonable expectation of being deployed to Iraq, a war fought on entirely false pretences.

If there had been an actual threat I'd have put on the uniform. But there wasn't. Isn't. And never has been. This is an unjust war and the military and everyone in it that VOLTUNEERS to fight can just cop the blame.

They're the dupes that bought the propaganda and signed away their lives for New World Order.

I'm not going to support these kind of people. I'll probably end up fighting them.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


GIs refusing to continue an immoral war was one of the reasons for the end of the Vietnam War, among other reasons of course.
It definately helped.
***********************************

True but most of the GI's that refused to continue the war were draftees not volunteers. A big difference.

Peace...............yak055h



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by belial259
These soldiers aren't representing me


But don't you see they are representing you. What do you think Iraqis think when they see random American helicopters start shooting at them for no reason. They are mad at the American people as a "whole" for letting this war happen and for the killing of innocent lives.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull

Originally posted by belial259
These soldiers aren't representing me


But don't you see they are representing you.


I'm not American they aren't representing me. Quite frankly if I saw anyone wearing "the uniform" walking down my street I'd shoot first and ask questions later because I'd know they'd finally gone insane and come for us.

And anyone in the US with a brain would do the same thing. Posse Commitatus is there for a reason.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by belial259
They're the dupes that bought the propaganda and signed away their lives for New World Order.


Exactly! If they were too stupid to go out and fight this war because they felt it was justified then shame on them. None of this information was new and please, just once, can someone please explain to me what the hell Iraq having WMD's has to do with 9/11. Even if they did have WMD's, at that point in time shouldn't we have been solely going after those who were responsible. These 9/11 "conspiracies" (if that's what you want to call them because they're more fact than anything) were out right after 9/11. People aren't stupid. The smart ones caught on right away, the idiots are at war and expect us to bow down to them for doing the "right" thing. Sorry but I won't bow to some retard. I'm not afraid to say what others dont want to. Military is scum. Yes, I have buddies that joined the military and they weren't the brightest bunch. If I recall correctly, one of them was ecstatic when he found he was going to Afghanistan. As he put it, he just couldn't wait to go and "kill some ragheads."



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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Im not seeing the debate here. Were is the transcript of what the soldiers actual responses were in at least someone elses words other than the one claiming absolute victory over a young soldier?

Might want to retittle this thread "One sided pissing match with super smart and morally superior entity, Me"

I cant take this thread seriously.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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How is killing more than a million Iraqi civilians "defending our freedom"?

As Marine General Smedley Butler said, "War is a Racket".


[edit on 4/5/2010 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by Maddogkull

Originally posted by belial259
These soldiers aren't representing me


But don't you see they are representing you.


I'm not American they aren't representing me. Quite frankly if I saw anyone wearing "the uniform" walking down my street I'd shoot first and ask questions later because I'd know they'd finally gone insane and come for us.

And anyone in the US with a brain would do the same thing. Posse Commitatus is there for a reason.



Wow man your crazy you need to be locked up



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


One piece of propaganda that I cannot stand is the crap we hear that the "enemy" (insert any group in the quotes) are fighting because they are jealous of our freedoms.

That just pisses me off to no end.

We are losing our freedoms of choice, economics, etc etc etc for the lie of security. Yeah right, security. That is why our police are not required to save us. That is why our government has told people on the border of Mexico to arm themselves. Ad infinitum.

If no one gets it yet, our government does not protect our freedoms, you do!

And you are not doing a very good job right now.

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
If no one gets it yet, our government does not protect our freedoms, you do!

And you are not doing a very good job right now.


Yes you are absolutely correct!

Individuals protect the freedom of individuals!
I couldn't agree more
the govt. hates your freedoms more than anyone



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
From a reader in LA comes this account at a debate of his debate with a soldier who claimed he was defending our freedoms.





That uniform you wear is MINE! I ALLOW you to wear in on MY BEHALF. It belongs to ME and represents MY WISHES. If you DISHONOR IT, you dishonor ME! And if I SAY you DISHONOR it, then there is no question YOU HAVE. Every deed you do while in MY uniform reflects on ME, either GOOD or BAD. And, if you deny anything I just said, then you are NOT an ‘American Soldier!’


www.lewrockwell.com...




That's may sound good, but it's really not even a good argument. Let's focus on the phrase, "And, if you deny anything i just said, then you are NOT an 'American Soldier!'". Have we graduated from kindergarten yet?

The true part of this statement is that American Soldiers do represent the country and need to behave accordingly. They do not represent each individual person. That would be impossible. Like I said before, it sounds good; but, in reality there are just too many people. With that logic you could effectively say we have no American Soldiers.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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I can't help but offer the occam's razor theory to this thread. I mean, I hate to speculate on a subject with knowledge only derived from someone else's experience. In this case, I'm talking about the video depicting "insurgents" being blown up, accompanied by audio of American troops expressing their love for war.

I don't know if the story attached to the video is the truth, I don't know who or why we are killing. I don't "know" anything about this war, because I haven't been there or seen it with my own eyes. However, all things being equal, those poor people experienced the US strong arm in all it's glory? All things being equal, those people died in vein. All things being equal, any soldier willing to fight for a country so corrupt, has lost his/her moral compass.

Still though, I can't see the reason for debate. I don't understand why people are still trying to convince each other that only one of us can have a voice and an opinion. From where I stand, the world is changing at a rapid pace. From where I stand you, me, him and her have little to do or say about it until it's supposed to be said and done. It isn't about changing each others perception (because if we can't and won't do it on our own, it won't happen), it's about being left with those willing to and those who already have.

The greatest war in the history of this world is being setup. The greatest change in the history of this world will take place. With so many years of conditioning a nation like ours, the efforts made toward altering the mainstream mentality of our soldiers, citizens and would be backyard-patriots is simply in vein.

I think that regardless of our understanding of what immoral happenings are going on in the world, some will speak and others will watch and listen. In the end, change in inevitable. In the end, there will be no room for such egotistical, short-sighted individuals as are involved in our current wars.






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