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Wikileaks Video Released!!

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posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


I will respectfully, agree to disagree with you.

I will say this, though.

In no way, In no way, shape or form were the Soldeirs in the Aircraft in any Danger at any Time. This is plainly shown in the Video.

Even if the Guy was carrying an RPG, as you "Almost Wish He Was", Why would that even make it right for a bunch of hicks to shoot them down in cold blood?

Is it illegal in that country? or, should I say, Is it illegal for them, but, Legal for the Americans, who do not and I state "Do Not" own that Country?

If you look at it from my point of view, what the Americans did that day was Murder. Not only that but, it seemed like it was more like Sport for those Soldiers than anything else. You easily tell from their comments when and after the so called "Bongo Van" pulled up to help the injured and dying.

Can you explain why they were a threat to the American Soldiers in the Air?
The Comments about the Children were also chilling to say the least..


I'll say it again to clarify myself.

"At No Time were those Soldeirs under attack nor were they even threatened with Attack". "They were in no Danger".

Just Sayin'

Edit to change "Bong Van to Bongo van" LOL


[edit on 6-4-2010 by Damian-007]




posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by spy66
 


In that case the Americans can't have been fired on as they claim in the video?

Can they?

Or am I mistaken?


No they never did. I have tried to see if there is any engagement by the people on the ground towards the chopper, but i cant see any hostile aggression from them at all. They only know that the chopper is there, but they dont seam to know that they are a target of observation. That's why they are so relaxed.


It is NOT an assumption. As I stated in my post on this page, they would NOT have had to require authorization to proceed firing upon the men on the ground if they HAD fired upon the aircraft. As some have pointed out, we do not know what lead up to them focusing on this group. We have no idea if a call was put in to investigate suspicious activity. However, we can all agree that they were NOT fired upon in any way.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Kram09
That must also go for all the other people who come on ATS and bang on about how they were in Armed forces and did this and that.

Good post though.


I will take that barp in the spirit it was given as I have respected much of your posts and also as I freely admit to being one of those you describe but in taking that barb I take it with a nod, a kick up the backside and will say no more regarding my own experience which was unintentional and said out of pride rather than hubris.

Starred and no more OT from me!


[edit on 6-4-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
RELEASE No. 20070713-01
July 13, 2007

Firefight in New Baghdad; US, Iraqi forces kill 9 insurgents, detain 13
2nd IBCT, 2nd Inf. Div. Public Affairs

FORWARD OPERATING BASE LOYALTY, Iraq — Multi-National Division – Baghdad Soldiers, with their Iraqi Security Force counterparts, killed nine insurgents and detained 13 more after coming under fire July 12 in the New Baghdad District of eastern Baghdad.

Soldiers of 1st Battalion, 8th Cavalry Regiment, and the 2nd Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, both operating in eastern Baghdad under the 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, along with their Iraqi counterparts from the 1st Battalion, 4th Brigade, 1st Division National Police, were conducting a coordinated raid as part of a planned operation when they were attacked by small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. Coalition Forces returned fire and called in attack aviation reinforcement.

Nine insurgents were killed in the ensuing firefight. One insurgent was wounded and two civilians were killed during the firefight.

The two civilians were reported as employees for the Reuters news service.

“There is no question that Coalition Forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force,” said Lt. Col Scott Bleichwehl, spokesperson and public affairs officer for MND-B.

The command’s thoughts are with the families of the civilians who were killed during the combat action.

The incident is under investigation.


SOURCE

 


The principal point of the video is to show the COVER UP story released.

There were NO coalition forces being attacked by small fire arms and RPGs, at least, not from the crowd the Apache was shooting at. There were NO civilians killed during a firefight because there were NO firefight when the Apache oppened fire. The only survivor after the first engagement was one of the civilians, the photographer assistant and driver, hopefully he survived and yet when he was being helped by the REAL HEROES of that hell the gunner was begging to one last opportunity to finish the 'job'.

Anyone who try to find excuses to this MURDER COVER UP is not different from the killers itself, at least the mind looks to be the same old brainwashed and ignorant mind we ever see, the same scum, the same human garbage.

This war started based on LIES, the soliders who died there was not supposed to die, the civilians who died there was not supposed to die, the people who wanted to protect their land was not supposed to die...

How many DEATHS a single LIE can provide?


U.S. Troop Casualties - 4,386

Non-U.S. Troop Casualties - 316

Journalists killed - 140

Journalists killed by US Forces - 14

Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 9,411

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000

Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 569


SOURCE

 


I am really tired of this world we live on.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Damian-007
 


I'm not disagreeing with you. Read my posts here, you'll see that...

As for my "almost wishing"? Let me see if I can put my thoughts into the proper wording...

Had that been an RPG, rather than a camera, the guys in the chopper, depending upon how far away they were, could have been in danger of being shot at. So they'd have been ok to shoot. As for the follow up, no. That's not on... and I'm in no way excusing that, or attempting to. That's what I was trying to get across...

As it turns out? It wasn't an RPG, it was a camera.

Now is where the investigation must start. Accident, or no? We don't have all the evidence, just this video.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Damian-007
 



The Apache helicopter is armed with a 30mm cannon. The muzzle velocity of the round is 3,500 feet per second. In terms of energy, it has about 125,000 foot-pounds.

Those of you familiar with the mighty .50 BMG round would be interested to know that the 30mm cannon round has TEN TIMES the energy of the .50 bmg.

At 1,000 yards, the 30mm still has so much energy in it that it can penetrate 8 inches of steel.

This armament is meant for anti-material use... such as taking down buildings, blowing up armored vehicles, and tanks.

This is the weapon that was used on those people.

There seems to be about a 2 second delay between when you can hear the shots being fired and when you see them make impact. This would mean that the range to target was about 2,000 yards, or about 1.25 miles.

Do not forget that the bullets themselves are traveling about three times the speed of sound. The first thing the victims would know is that they were shot. Then about 4 seconds later, they would hear the faint sounds of gunfire in the distance.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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Soldiers are trained to kill. Thats what they did.
People walking around with weapons are the enemy. People helping the enemy are the enemy. So they will be shot to.

I am very very shure that if the gunman in the heli have seen the kids he would not have fired at the truck.

Now, the soldiers who came investigating the area saw the kids and helped them. I can tell you that there are lots of armies and soldiers in the world that would shot them also or left them to die.
Not these US soldiers.

So if the heli knew they where journalists do you think they would engage?
Ofcourse not. They are causalties of war.

Now who is to blaim here?
Its George Bush and his posse. And I would almost say the people who vote for him. But thats to easy, he fooled me to with his waepons of massdestruction fairytales.

Blaim it on the NWO if you wanna blaim somebody but these soldiers where doing they dirty job.

Peace for Godsake.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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I'm not sure how you can make anything clear from that, let alone say FOR SURE that he's carrying a tripod. The video is fuzzy, black and white, and not clear at all.

All I can tell is that he's carrying a log object. Now the shape at the end IS consistent with the shape of the rocket-piece of an RPG, but that doesn't make it an RPG.

But neither does it surely make it a tripod. This is clearly a case of you seeing what you want to see just like anyone who insists this must be an RPG is seeing what they want to see.


clearly a case of seeing what you want?
That goes both ways m8


I'm terribly sorry but.... The US military disagrees. From Salon:


According to U.S. officials, the pilots arrived at the scene to find a group of men approaching the fight with what looked to be AK-47s slung over their shoulders and at least one rocket-propelled grenade.

A military investigation later concluded that what was thought to be an RPG was really a long-range photography lens; likewise, the camera looked like an AK-47.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by One Step Beyond...
 



How many DEATHS a single LIE can provide?


That pretty much sums up the situation. That one lie has spawned how many more? How many more before the killing stops?

America, you know what you have to do. Now do it already.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by MajinRoshi
Yet, you have no idea what you're talking about. You call it a war crime based on what?


Based on article 3 of the 4th Geneva convention, which usurps the rules of engagement in any and all combat situations, and of which the United States of America is a signatory.

Of course, you being a soldier should know that.



But hey, you don't get stars around here by being rational. So go ahead and take the easy road.


No, you get stars for understanding international law - and for realising that shooting an unarmed man crawling away from a killing zone, and the people who came to offer him assistance without posing any kind of threat whatsoever is a war crime.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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This video leaves me very uneasy.

I have no problems with the first engagement. Sucks for the journalists but had I seen that zoom lens peaking around a corner I'd have lit the group up too. The van engagement OTH seems to go beyond acceptable use of force even in a war zone, possibly enough to warrant UCMJ action. The Pentagon's response and investigation are by no means acceptable.

A couple of things I noticed in the radio exchange. The apache asked for permission to fire from the ground element (Bushmaster 7). Unless call signs have changed since I've been in that would be a Bravo Company First Sergeant. I'm assuming that the air units were asking for permission to fire not because the ground unit had a better view of the situation, but because they needed to make sure no friendlies were danger close.

Also notice the difference between the ground and air elements. The air elements seem callous and cold through the entire engagement even after they find out they've just injured some kids, but at the same time you see the sense of urgency in the ground troops in evacuating and treating the kids once they find them. Also the immediate ground commander's decision is to transport the kids to a US hospital even though he is overruled by someone up the chain.

Video's like this need to come out more and definately deserve some real attention. There is lots of grey here, and I doubt you could convict the gunner beyond a reasonable doubt on any charge in any US court (including courts Martial).

Kudo's to wikileaks for what they do. Regardless of how you feel about the video it needs to be discussed.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Damian-007
 


I'm not disagreeing with you. Read my posts here, you'll see that...

As for my "almost wishing"? Let me see if I can put my thoughts into the proper wording...

Had that been an RPG, rather than a camera, the guys in the chopper, depending upon how far away they were, could have been in danger of being shot at. So they'd have been ok to shoot. As for the follow up, no. That's not on... and I'm in no way excusing that, or attempting to. That's what I was trying to get across...

As it turns out? It wasn't an RPG, it was a camera.

Now is where the investigation must start. Accident, or no? We don't have all the evidence, just this video.


I know you're not, in essence, disagreeing with me. I can understand where you are trying to come from, however I just like a good debate..
I don't want an arguing match between you and me. lol. You're a Moderator..


Ok, So, you're trying to say that If the guy was holding an RPG then the Soldiers were ok to shoot?

I get that, however, why would it be ok for the Soldiers to shoot even if that guy was holding an RPG? Is it illegal?

If I was walking down the street in, let's say New York. I am carrying a roll of Carpet and it just so happens that it looks like a Grenade Launcher. An Army Helicopter flies over head at 800 ft and a Soldier see me with that roll of carpet and says to himself "It's a Grenade Launcher". He tells his Commander that he see's a person carrying a Grenade Launcher, can I kill him". The Commander has no choice, I am, in the Commander eye's, carrying a Grenade Launcher. The Commander says Engage and I get Shot and Killed. I haven't been warned, I haven't been given any benifit of doubt. One Soldier ends my life because of what he thinks he saw.

What I'm trying to say, it doesn't matter what that Guy was holding. Those soldiers shoul've been truthfull and wait until they were sure that they were going to be in danger and then waited again until an aggressive move was made toward them.. You can't just go killing people because they're carrying something that looks like a threat, surely?

Anyhow, maybe the comparison of Me walking in New York and Iraq is a stupid way of comparing it. I'm just trying to show that no matter what, it should be made clear that I am an actual threat and not a journo carrying a camera or tripod.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Apologies if I took you out of context. My bad.

No. The whole of America is not to blame - you are certainly right in saying that and I would be remiss if I said anything else.

The people who are to blame, are the ones who pushed this, carried it out and tried to bury it. Sadly, in this case, they are Americans. Thats not to say that similar hasn't happened with other armed forces around the world.

However, in this case, the video is out there, and thats all we can comment on.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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This is simply just a game for them, it probably happens each month..
and you can see just how easy it is for them, the gunner asked several times, like he was begging his superior for some action.. "please let me engage please!"

Im glad this leaked out


Please don't even think for a second this just happens sometimes..

Peace



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Damian-007
 



You're a Moderator..


I hope you know that will not make a difference?

I love a good argument, too...



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by rizla
 



It's up to an investigation to decide whether or not it was an accidental shooting, or deliberate. One video, no matter how clear, doesn't prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything.



The investigation was done long time ago and guess what, they lied! the cover up story didn't fit the video.

They fabricated a cover-up story and was trying to hide the truth, and painted these men and Reuter reporters as insurgents to fit the incident and to save the behind of their own gung-ho maniacs.

I suggest you to go back in time to 2007 and read the earlier statement about this investigation and then compare it yourself with what you can read now - and with what you can clearly see in the video.

Earlier they denied everything and fabricated a coverup story and wrote their falsified rapport about a gang of armed insurgents who opened fire against Americans - now a spokesman for US Central Command say this:


He conceded that during the engagement the helicopter crew mistook a camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

It doesn't matter now anyway, sadly!

Regarding the obvious slaughter of the people and children in the black van - the cover-up story is not important!

We can now ALL with our own eyes see in the video the vile actions of these murdering gung-ho idiots!

Is it sad? yes! for all people involved, including the more 'good guys' in the US military and occupational forces.

Do I hold you personally accountable for these unfortunate incidents?

Of course not! that would be just ignorant of me, you seem to be quite informed of the fact that these crimes happen from time to time, but there are also many here who trying to justify and defend these kinds of vile actions - which is a really sad tragedy in all this mess.

But these incidents unfortunately also stain the reputation of all good Americans because this is sadly done in your good name!

That is why this is such an important topic to discuss among us here in a world community.

This warmongering madness must stop now!

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Chevalerous]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Please stop with the Youtube complaints. I can't tell you how many idiotic and almost verbatim repeated whines about the 'number of views is not changing.'

It has been very clearly announced earlier on in the thread (oh wait, but then those of you who do not actually read threads but rather just read the OP and maybe a page or two before ranting about the same... exact... thing... the previous 60+ pages have complained about and then continue to blab on about how upset you are about the amount of pages are in the thread.

JUST STOP.



Okay that rant is over...


Now, As far as people complaining about Youtube requiring an account....

No, this is not so the government can 'track you' because you watched this. Please, remove your tin foil hat and for just one second attempt to think rationally. Youtube is a website that is accessed by people of all ages. I sincerely hope the people that are complaining about having to have an account do not have children or nieces and nephews, because I know that I would not want any young child that I care deeply about to witness the same horrid video I saw. Hence the 'mature content' warning.

Is requiring an account going to prevent our children from seeing this and retain their innocence? No. Just like adult sites are required to have a waiver stating 18+ to enter the site that does not prevent all other incoming traffic. A question posed to the young adult male population of ATS (those in their mid teens to early adulthood): Can you honestly state that during your teenage years on the Internet you never once clicked 'Yes' on one of those before you were 18? If you can claim such, then you are one of the fewer minorities. Before the main point of this post gets derailed by anyone upset at what I am saying, the point is not to compare viewing porn and viewing people being killed. I am in no way trying to say that. What I am saying, however, is that both should and are viewed as adult content not suitable for children.

So please. Shut up about the number of Youtube hits. Shut up about having to log into an account. Shut up about Uncle Sam and the Government watching you through your computer because you either downloaded or watched this video and remove your tin hats.


Now that this has finally been addressed, back to the topic at hand...

/sigh


-Sliadon

Edit: spelling

[edit on 4/6/2010 by Sliadon]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by 30_seconds
reply to post by Damian-007
 



The Apache helicopter is armed with a 30mm cannon. The muzzle velocity of the round is 3,500 feet per second. In terms of energy, it has about 125,000 foot-pounds.

Those of you familiar with the mighty .50 BMG round would be interested to know that the 30mm cannon round has TEN TIMES the energy of the .50 bmg.

At 1,000 yards, the 30mm still has so much energy in it that it can penetrate 8 inches of steel.

This armament is meant for anti-material use... such as taking down buildings, blowing up armored vehicles, and tanks.

This is the weapon that was used on those people.

There seems to be about a 2 second delay between when you can hear the shots being fired and when you see them make impact. This would mean that the range to target was about 2,000 yards, or about 1.25 miles.

Do not forget that the bullets themselves are traveling about three times the speed of sound. The first thing the victims would know is that they were shot. Then about 4 seconds later, they would hear the faint sounds of gunfire in the distance.


So, in reality, those people on the ground had no warning and no hope, once those Soldiers had made up their minds. I bet they didn't even know it was the Chopper firing on them..

There was no way for those who got killed to know, that they were even being observed let alone being targeted.

You couldn't even use an Excuse of Sport for those Soldiers. The people that were killed were just sitting ducks.

Thanks for the info.. It's made me a little more sympathetic for those who were killed.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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i have never felt so physically sick in my life, so much carnage - makes me hate humanity even more.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Why is that every person that comes in here to defend the actions of those in the video, do so without punctuation or the simplest grammar, and can't even spell simple words?

They also accentuate their ragged sentences with "!!!!!!" and insults like, "yeah right buddy".

I think I know the answer to this, I'm pretty sure most of you need to see a therapist and then maybe read a book for once in your lives. You're all ignorant trash who think doing nothing means something. Being simple is one thing, as we are all simple in our own fashion, but supporting mindless slaughter and cold-hearted evil is another. Being both, is out of this world. It displays you for being the dumb trash that you are. I have no sympathy for any of you, you are simply out of sight, the kind of people no one wants to associate with, except for your most ignorant equals.

Reading all your responses makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

I'm also a veteran of Iraq, and it took me two tours before I became completely ashamed. The small amount of good will that I tried to pass on was always trumped by unbelievable apathy. In over 900 days of duty in Iraq, with all the teams I served with, not one did any unspeakable act or ever came close to it. We restrained ourselves and never had to be in a situation that would ever be remotely unspeakable. I've been up and down Iraq a hundred times, on the streets, on the sands, my blood runs with the dust of Iraq now.

From my perspective, these people are insane. If anyone on my team ever intentionally shot at children or unarmed civilians, I would have took out my knife and cut his throat where he stood or put a bullet in his head. I am not joking. I would not have risked another second with that man's boots on the ground anywhere near me.

Putting on a uniform and picking up a rifle requires a great sense of responsibility and restraint. It is not a license for genocide. If you can't do that, and all your are is afraid all the time and all you do is put innocent people, fellow soldiers and yourself at risk. Then it's high time you either take the uniform off, or end your own miserable existence before you cause abhorrent suffering on other human beings.



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