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Wikileaks Video Released!!

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posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 



Its about a war crime on video.


Yet, you have no idea what you're talking about. You call it a war crime based on what? A propaganda video that CLEARLY has an agenda? You guys crack me up. Deny ignorance, unless it conflicts with your pre-conceived notions.

But hey, you don't get stars around here by being rational. So go ahead and take the easy road.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by MajinRoshi]




posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by antonia
Concerning the men holding AK-47's. My husband actually has been in the area 3 times. He says AK's are common and you can carry one if you get a permit. Simply having an AK-47 doesn't make someone an insurgent.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by antonia]

Very valid point. One thing the Christians on here did not learn from Easter: you cannot fight the powerful oppressor or you will end up crucified. No one will be punished for this horrible act and those that stand up for rightiousness will be shot down. Martyrs will become dust before the truth is exposed.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


I see you are new here. Perhaps you haven't had a chance to read this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

tired old #5



And in respect to denying ignorance...here ya go!

rawstory.com...

[edit on 6-4-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Oouthere

Originally posted by Jimmy1880

Originally posted by Oouthere
Just my guess, but most of you that have posted against what was seen have not been trained in war or have never been in combat. I'm not going to discuss my combat, but this was simply an unfortunate accident which incidently is not what was happening when the terrorists were beheading thoseon past videos.

When conducting war you don't make nice nor have hours to make decisions....sometimes you make decisions very quickly that immediately effects hundreds of lives. Call me an animal, but I'm probably one of the guys that you'd want between you and the enemy.

Rich


And you my friend have ABSOLUTELY no idea about reality.

Rich

F YOU YOU F ING RETARD. This was not an accident this was bored soldiers brassing up civvies. I bet the most combat you have seen is on your xbox. You disgust me and for your information one of the important aspects of a soldiers personality is compassion.



So that post that got flagged for T&C violation is acceptable as a quote? It's also now acceptable to state all members of the American military are SOBs? As I understand it there are quite a few active and ex military members on this site. I'd like to see us remain civil but apparently that is not in the cards.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


Shooting someone who is injured and poses no threat is a war crime. There is no refuting war crimes were committed.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:27 AM
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www.youtube.com...


Here is a well put together piece that deserves a viewing.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


My friend, I'm about as unleft as it gets around here...but neither am I blind. The military, in this case, screwed up. Plain and simple. Then they compounded the issue by attempting, so far as is known, to cover it up... Accidents happen. But you don't cover it up.

We're the good guys, supposedly. You can not fight fire with fire. Shooting into a group of men, some armed some not, from a helicopter/gunship is asinine. To my mind, the guys in the air observe and bring in the guys on the ground to sort it out.

No, the insurgents don't play by the Geneva conventions. Never have. Does that mean that we shouldn't, too? Two wrongs will never equate to a right.

Accident? How do you rectify that? Don't see how...

Deliberate? Everyone involved, from top to bottom should hang.

Course I've said this before.

We're the good guys, it's time to start acting like it. Not just most of the time, but all the time...

Yeah, that's hard to do. But it's the way it's got to be.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Raustin
 



Shooting someone who is injured and poses no threat is a war crime. There is no refuting war crimes were committed.


Not true. Again showing that most of you have no idea what you're talking about. Like saying its normal for Iraqis to walk around with AKs. You're full of it if you beleive that. The ROE states that if you come across an Iraq brandishing a weapon, you're cleared to engage. They are allowed to own them yes, but not walk around with them!

The fact is, they asked permission for engagement and got it, but besides that:

Under the laws of Land Warfare you can shoot at someone running away even unarmed. References are :

FM27-10 (The Law of Land Warfare.)
TC 27-10-1 (Selected Problems in the Law of Land Warfare)
DA Pam 27-1(TREATIES GOVERNING LAND WARFARE. ), P. 12 (HR art 23 (c))

The original story reeks of BS. The language used (murdered? - professional journalists would say "killed"), tall tales of the State Dept following people and a complete lack of named sources means it's got all the credibility of a story I could whip up over a bowl of cornflakes.

This is nowhere near as cut and dry as you anti-soldier folks want it to be. Most of you are talking out of your asses and don't know the first thing about this subject. You're just jumping on the popular, ignorance ATS bandwagon.

reply to post by seagull
 



My friend, I'm about as unleft as it gets around here...but neither am I blind. The military, in this case, screwed up. Plain and simple. Then they compounded the issue by attempting, so far as is known, to cover it up... Accidents happen. But you don't cover it up.


Could you outline where you get your knowledge of the ROE from and how you KNOW for a fact that "the military messed up"?


No, the insurgents don't play by the Geneva conventions. Never have. Does that mean that we shouldn't, too? Two wrongs will never equate to a right.


Thats a nice excuse for your completely inconsistent reactions.



[edit on 6-4-2010 by MajinRoshi]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 



EDIT

It just isn't worth it.

But some people still have a rather strong "my country right or wrong" patriotism, that defies common sense.

I thought ATS would have less of those types of people, this thread proves otherwise.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


Wow man, I am really not at all jumping on the ATS bandwagon, and I am most definitely not anti soldier. I'm very irritated with all the anti soldier sentiment. If you actually read any of my posts you would see that. I'll even go as far as saying I wouldn't judge the boys in that chopper for engaging initially, but when they shoot a man crawling on the ground it is a war crime.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Raustin
 



but when they shoot a man crawling on the ground it is a war crime.


No, it isn't. You're just making # up that sounds good. Otherwise, prove it. I gave a list of documents that say it is ok when given permission. Wat have you provided other than your totally uneducated guess?



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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I'm ashamed and really disgusted that some people are trying to defend what this video shows or try to make excuses for it.

They need to have a good long look at themselves, and ask why they find it acceptable.

Also for those saying that it's war and that's what happens. That doesn't excuse the actions of those troops. If someone you know was knocked down by a car, you wouldn't say, oh well that's crossing roads for you, that's what happens. Whether it was an accident or not.

In this case, the murder (because that's exactly what it was) of those people was no accident. The transcript makes that perfectly clear.

I get the impression some of them actually ENJOYED murdering that group of people.

The fact that it was covered up and lied about makes it even more reprehensible.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by MajinRoshi



Not true. Again showing that most of you have no idea what you're talking about.


And why should we believe that you know what you are talking about.

Reading a few issues of "Soldier of Fortune" makes no one an expert.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by MajinRoshi
reply to post by Raustin
 



but when they shoot a man crawling on the ground it is a war crime.


No, it isn't. You're just making # up that sounds good. Otherwise, prove it. I gave a list of documents that say it is ok when given permission. Wat have you provided other than your totally uneducated guess?


Seeing as you like to quote your precious ROE so much, here is a direct quote that seems to fit the tune of this video rather nicely

"Excessively loose ROE can facilitate the escalation of a conflict which, while being tactically effective, negates the political objectives that the use of force was meant to achieve. This is a Type II error or "escalatory" error. A common contemporary Type II error would be the use of excessive force, such as air-strikes, in an area with high numbers of noncombatants where such force would result in unintended collateral damage. Such action would most likely negate the trust of a local indigenous population who would then support the escalation of an insurgent force through protection, harboring of weapons, and recruitment."

emphasis by me

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


At times the ROE aren't the be all, end all... It's called your own best judgement. And my opinion is, best judgment wasn't used. It's become obvious that you don't agree...fine. My opinion is as stated. They should have backed off, not fired, let the ground troops check it out. We've become much too reliant on the fancy high tech., and less on brains on the ground.

In a war, perception is also a weapon...tell me, what would your reaction have been if that had been a Russian gunship shooting some Chechins? Some armed, some not...?

Hearts and minds will win this. Actions such as this don't help, at all.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by Kram09
 



I'm ashamed and really disgusted that some people are trying to get the facts, instead of lashing out emotionally half cocked


there I fixed it for you. Stop acting like you're in command of all the facts, or that you know the first thing about the ROE in Iraq. You and many others here clearly don't.



[edit on 6-4-2010 by MajinRoshi]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 




At times the ROE aren't the be all, end all... It's called your own best judgement. And my opinion is, best judgment wasn't used.


Yeah, but what do you know? Where you there? Have you ever been in combat? You don't have a #ing clue! You're making snap judgments, based on a propaganda video that was put together by people who clearly have an agenda.



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


I don't know whether you posted this earlier, but are you in the armed forces, or have you been?

Or have you been in combat.

I'm just wondering what gives you the right to say that you know more about this particular kind of situation then everybody else?

Have you slaughtered any Iraqis fairly recently? Or perhaps Afghans? Perhaps you could enlighten us.....

Genuine question.



[edit on 6/4/10 by Kram09]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Kram09
 


I've been in the military and Iraq yes. Its so painfully obvious most of you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. You're just reacting the way the makers of this propaganda wanted you to.


Have you slaughtered any Iraqis fairly recently? Or perhaps Afghans? Perhaps you could enlighten us.....


You and many other here are disgusting human beings. I'm done on this forum. I've never seen such an self assured bunch of complete ignoramuses. Enjoy your little circle jerk.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by MajinRoshi]



posted on Apr, 6 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by MajinRoshi
 


Well please enlighten us about you experiences.

Or even make a thread about it. I'll join. Educate us.

If you're just going to make vague baseless statements about how everyone knows nothing and you know everything, then I doubt it will mean much to me.



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