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Wikileaks Video Released!!

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posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


I never said anything about killing terrorists...i am merely commenting on an edited vid of a military op....so, i'm not sure where you're comin from.




posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by OrphenFire
 


So, they heard small arms fire and went to investigate with NO VISUAL PRESS IDENTIFICATION? This is why this incident is so illogical to me.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Clisen33]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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That's a really upsetting video...

I don't understand why they shoot first and then go check the bodies for evidence that confirms their original assumptions later. Was that really necessary? Those ground forces were right there, how hard would it have been to call in their location for those guys to go take a quick peek around the corner at? It would have set them back all of five minutes and could have saved a dozen innocent lives, is 5 minutes really worth more than all those lives?

Seeing the shooting up of the van made my stomach knot up... I can't even fathom how that man was a threat to anyone. There's just no excuse for that kind of reckless behaviour, I'm really at a loss for words.

If I were an American I'd be enraged by this, it's totally indefensible.

Regardless of whether or not it's fair to do so, the whole world shapes their opinion of the American armed forces, and America as a whole, based upon incidents like this one, and American's stock is falling fast. It's in the best interests of America to act swiftly in dealing with this situation in an appropriate way, rather than trying to make it go away.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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First off it's horrible that civilians were killed.

Second after watching the whole video I completely see how the persons in the video could have been mistaken for insurgents with weapons.

Third I disagree with targeting the van I don't see how it is a valid military target. however given that it is a vehicle responding to a group of assumed insurgents they may have expected the vehicle to be carrying further insurgent or weapons.

Fourth it's great to say afterward that of course they should have been able to see the kids in the van but I sure as hell didn't see anyone in the front seat let alone kids.

I don't see anything that's technically in violation of the international law of armed conflict.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by Clisen33
 


Clisen don't bother anymore with this group..they are clearly not seeing what you are. I feel you man...wish i could go on and on about what i saw, did and was privvy too (intelligence-wise)...i may change some opinions.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


The checking of bodies is for intelligence purposes also for statistic information..we had to do kill counts as well..usually after forward observers called in heavy artillery, when i was attached to a squad, which was rare..i usually only worked with one or two other people.

It's pretty nasty actually. Again this was a rare event in the Gulf war..not too too many killed.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by jeddun]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Clisen33
reply to post by OrphenFire
 


So, they heard small arms fire and went to investigate with NO VISUAL PRESS IDENTIFICATION? This is why this incident is so illogical to me.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Clisen33]


Who were they going to present their press identification to? There were no forces on the ground in that vicinity. Were they gonna wave their badges at the apaches? They probably should have. I think they could obviously see the apaches, and the fact that they weren't acting at all suspicious leads me to believe they didn't think they were in any danger at all. Until it was too late and the apache fires death upon them.

Actually, if they had waved at the apaches, the gunner would have said something like "He's throwing a grenade! Can I fire?!" "Roger. Engage."

BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by OrphenFire
 


Exactly. If they were a threat, they would have fired at the chopper. The guys with guns were carrying them rather casually, leading me and others to believe they were bodyguards for the press.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by OrphenFire
 


I'm talking about clothing, haven't you seen those vests that have PRESS written on them that reporters wear in war zones?

PRESS!

Another one!

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Clisen33]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by OrphenFire
 


Exactly. If they were a threat, they would have fired at the chopper. The guys with guns were carrying them rather casually, leading me and others to believe they were bodyguards for the press.


That's what I thought. Bodyguards are allowed, and in a warzone, your bodyguard better have some decent weapons.

Blackwater worked as bodyguards in Iraq & Afghanistan...



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by red_d
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter
 


I think I just misread you're original post. Very good point (+1). It's easy for me sitting on my couch judging these guys but I've never been over there. I work a pretty high risk job and have to deal with some pretty messed up stuff but it's not everyday and it's REALLY obvious who the bad guy is.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by red_d]


Understood?
Watch that video and understand, just standing around, directing traffic, handing out water, smoking a cigarette, doing anything at all youre a target, you become one giant nerve ending, you watch the man 12" to your side fall and his face is gone. Youre going to become a survivor no matter what it takes, and it takes alot of luck as well.
You just want to get home.
So people can judge all they want,
like I said its nasty, misguided and nasty,
its a war, your very own personal war, and thats it.
This one happens to be in the streets and there's no fields or trees or mountains or jungle.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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has anyone seen the beheadings posted by organizations, from the al jazzera network... those are much more brutal than this could ever be... stop being so judgeMENTAL... has anyone been in a combat situation?

in the hot Iraqi heat... during the summer, it can drive you crazy...
and you get extra paraniod after you've been shot at... doesn't matter if this WAR PHOTO journalist just had a camera, you go into a combat zone, and say "hey im not playing" that doesn't work... is it the soliders fault?

I didn't see any kids in the van the first time around... and i can see how they might have thought the "SLINGED camera" was a weapon... those soliders weren't studying a video from behind a computer, they were conducting COMBAT OPERATIONS, Executing orders, Maintaining situational awareness, and flying a heliocopter, separating congested radio traffic and were worried that they'd have an RPG up thier ass... if hit right that means death... and all it takes is one... and i want to see our soliders come home alive.. all of them.

do i think this occupation is unjust? yes, but hey blame bush/obama and their administrations... not the soliders...

besides if we could stop this occupation we would have done it already

[edit on 5-4-2010 by nvprose1]



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Clisen33
reply to post by OrphenFire
 


I'm talking about clothing, haven't you seen those vests that have PRESS written on them that reporters wear in war zones?

PRESS!

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Clisen33]


Many photo and video journalists don't wear those vests for various reasons: don't have any, lost, destroyed, etc.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Clisen33
reply to post by Doomsday 2029
 


But yet they love Sharia law and treat the female population as lesser humans.



Oh I see...

I'm an idiot.

Nevermind my earlier post...


Let's just exterminate every Muslim that thinks this way.... obviously the people in the video that wikileaks just released love the Sharia law too.... so I'm glad their dead.


Yea... WE NEED GENOCIDE!!!

While I can understand that people can interpret this video as "Collateral Damage" or a "Mistake"..... I can not understand how somebody would wish that these soldiers killed MORE.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:20 PM
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That was the most horrible video I have ever watched in my entire life including "Faces Of Death" series and 2 other sick war shyt I`ve seen on the internet. I don`t know why I torture myself to watch when I knew it was going to be so horrific. Knowing that journalist civilians and children were killed ahead of watching this made it all the worse as well.

War is sick, to me, and these Americans fighting with intentions of living and preserving innocent life have to do it however they must. They obviously would not wanted the outcome that happened, I do believe. I`m not saying they weren`t somehow duped into making these kills however, just that the Americans who defend us follow orders and like the most of us are good people. If this were some sort of deliberate act, I doubt it would be the soldiers` engaging at fault, no matter how callous they may sound, doing the very sick job they know they have to do, in order to preserve the lives of the innocent including their own.

But I see how this and so many other topics can garner opinion, based on the surface picture and instant emotions, without seeing the possibility of other possible correct vantage points.

This is something I don`t think I will ever totally understand, as the fact is that people want to kill people and see no other option.

But I see the possibility that trained troops following orders did exactly what they were trained to do, and tragedy definitely struck.

From an uneducated and non military vantage point I ask why isn`t there a protocol involved in situations such as this, where a more accurate view is obtained of all targets to ensure guns are not really cameras and hostile van occupants are not children?

But I digress, as I know nothing of war and see that just maybe that is an impossible idea when dealing with death and destruction on a battle field.

But then that`s why I`ll never totally understand the need for these actions as I can`t understand why they, over there, want me to die as well, or as I am led to believe, as I know is the opinion of many, which I do respect as well.

One day I think the slate will be wiped completely clean for all. I don`t know how but I believe its the only way. Maybe we are headed down that terrible path of Armageddon so many warn us of, and there will only be a percentage left and that will be the way it is or maybe we will continue to slowly torture each other for many milenias to come.

I`ll always understand the need to defend but never understand why the aggression can not just cease.

Ok, so thanks to the OP, star and flag for bringing a little more reality into my view and thanks for the scar, internet.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by nvprose1
 


The situation happened. What happened is what happened. Nobody can change it. I agree that in the heat of the moment, poor decisions can be made. That's exactly what happened here. But there is still no excuse. Especially for firing on the van.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by OrphenFire
 


Or covering it up.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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Is there any possibility that this could be a "hit" on this reporter? I suppose worse and stranger things have happened. It just crossed my mind as a messed up possibility.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by nvprose1
 


Spare me. I can see a camera slung over someones shoulder from at least 35 feet and tell the difference. You are trying to tell me that at the equivalent distance, or closer, an apache pilot cant? You must be nuts.



posted on Apr, 5 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Doomsday 2029
 


Stop putting words in my mouth.

You were criticizing western culture, so I criticized the culture or Islam. Is that bad?



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