Mexican cartels cannot be defeated, drug lord says

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree with your factual assessments, respectfully not the tactics - but your thought process works for me as a way to beat this cartel, this problem. It seems far from winning the war on drugs and destroying cartels in general, just relocate he battle zone and troops to somewhere more manageable. IMHO.

gj

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You do bring up a good point, Mexican Cartels are essentially the middle man between South America, parts of Asia and the US. Now whos crops are you suggesting we spray? The Mexicans, or the South Americans or all of them? I believe this has been suggested a million times before, but it runs into a little snag when you involve all the corrupt government officials etc.

As for the Mexican cartels being the easiest thing in the world to replace... how do you figure? They are right against our border, which is pretty much unprotected even at the manned border stations. A little easier than having Cubans, Haitians or Jamaicans in charge of the transport.

The plain fact of the matter is that, so long as there is demand for anything, then, if it can be supplied profitably, it will be. Even if it were possible to shut down the Mexican cartels, the trade would be picked up somewhere else. Even if cash was abolished, people would simply buy something legal & barter it for drugs, gold perhaps. There will eventually come a point when the USA simply cannot afford the current ridiculous, counterproductive policy.
We all know exactly what will have to happen eventually. We just cant talk about how it would work on ATS.

I'm going to portray an opinion based on my feelings, not from any real tactical standpoint.

Why not shock and awe?

Find out where they live, where they hide their toys, and blow that # up. Screw tactics, and screw trying to interdict their operations, infiltrate the hierarchy, eliminate the leaders...

Just break their toys. Over and over and over.

Just let them know that they are going to continue to pay a high price if they continue to hurt people.

That is all.

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[edit on 4/5/2010 by maria_stardust]

Originally posted by ganjoa
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I agree with your factual assessments, respectfully not the tactics - but your thought process works for me as a way to beat this cartel, this problem. It seems far from winning the war on drugs and destroying cartels in general, just relocate he battle zone and troops to somewhere more manageable. IMHO.

gj

Well hey, no one said anything about winning the war on drugs!

But what I outlined is how to take power away from and break the Mexican Cartells.

The only way to win the war on drugs is to make them legal.

Drugs have been part of the human culture from the beginning of civilization.

Like pornography, drugs represent an important relief outlet for some people who have trouble coping with a shared reality.

Whether its bungee jumping, sky diving, car racing, or cliff diving, thrill seekers, sensation junkees, and the plain bored are always going to look for external stimuli to otherwise liven up a dull day, evening or life.

Same thing with booze, gambling, sex, etc., etc.,

Drugs have always been here, they are always going to be here.

The War on Drugs is about controlling the profit off of them on the top, and creating a controlled chaos through making them illegal and then just basically playing a kids game of cops and robbers, to create an ellement of pandemonium, that makes security conscious people want to look to authority to protect them from that mayhem.

The Prison and Security Industrial Complex is enormously profitible and well over 65% of prison labor, and billions of dollars annually are involved for the government, private prison industries, armaments dealers, and other security related firms that literally all goes up in smoke on them the minute you end the war on drugs by making them legal, or not enforcing victimless crimes.

It's important to note that it's as important for the political establisment that drugs are illegal as it is for the top criminals as well.

It is only the element of danger, payoffs, graft, and violence, that then justifies and allows for the huge markup and high profits.

The War on Drugs is simply a racket that everyone at the top profits insanely on, and between the allure of drugs, fast cash, and excitement there are no shortage of people willing to become victims to that racket on the lower levels.

It is what it is.

Thanks for your reply.



[edit on 5/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by red_d


Actually Florida's thousands of miles of open coast line was a natural for the Cubans, Haitans, and Jamaicans, but the government has done a good job at closing most of it down.

It would be just as easy for them to close down then thousands of miles of Mexican borders as well.

Obviously the government does not want to win the war on drugs, because a huge chunk of our tax dollars go to enriching a lot of different corporate entities that support the fight, and help pioneer the laws that make a police state possible.

They do have to put on a show of fighting it though, so you close Florida one day, and in the meantime keep the Cubans, Haitians, or Jamaicans from getting to rich and powerful, and then switch enforcement over to the Mexican Border when the people scream for something to be done, after the politicians convince the people that the constitution needs trampled on a little bit more first.

That some new massive project needs funded.

Some wonderful soundbite moments, and photo ops there in an election year.

Then you just open Florida back up again, or the Carolinas, the Pirates used to love the Carolinas.

Come to think of it, yep, the Carolinas will be the next major transhipment point, the Outer Banks.

Please also keep in mind that Drug Money transformed the Skyline of Miami into a modern city, and made several powerful banks.

That I am sure is happening along the Mexican Border too.

The Caronlinas sure could use some development funds too.

So pick a couple constitutional privelages you want to give up, hurry up and build a few more Sky Scrapers in Brownsville, get some talk of a North American Union going, and we can get that border closed up and the Carolinas opened up in no time flat I am sure.

The illegal drug trade is actually the biggest cash cow in the world.

It is also the highest profit industry in the world.

the US has no real plan to help the Mexican government rid Mexico of the cartels.
in fact the US hopes the Mexican government falls to the cartels.

Once the corrupt Mexican government falls the US with the help of Canada can send in troops under the pretext of protecting the US from the cartels and turn Mexico into a protectorate. (like Guam. Puerto Rico)

Mexico has a lot of good farm land, mineral resources, cheap labor and good beaches.

And most of the people of Mexico will want the US and Canada to take over by then.

Only the rich politically connected Mexicans elite will dislike the takeover and the have been the ones that have been controlling the corrupt Mexican government for years.

The US military and CIA have long been operating in Mexico identifying the corrupt and the drug cartel people

Noticed how cheap hard drugs have become ?

I live in France, and when I was a teenager I was told coc aine and heroin were very expensive.
Now, every time I'm off to work, I se dealers at the station, selling coc aine and H for less than 60€ a gram, half the price it was 10 years ago.

Now that the highly addictive substances have become affordable, I can't believe Mexican officials claiming they are making progress. If you legalize marijuana, it won't do much good, as the weed cartels are gonna turn to white powder to maintain their revenue.

All those guys need, IMO, is a complete closure of the US-MExican border, curfew, summary executions of suspected drug dealers. Tough problem, tougher solution.
Hard to read, isn't it ? I lost a cousin to drugs, and I wish I could shoot a dealer myself, if weapons weren't so controlled in my country.

The drug lords are using scorched earth.

A little of their own medicine, while finding a way to remove their custom would be good.

The cycle is apparent. While I DO NOT want legalized drugs - the cycle of remove product, increase price, incentive to move into the market is apparent.

I DO NOT like the idea of legalized meth, or legalized crack.

I DO NOT like what keeping it under prohibition is doing - because their net of prohibition isn't good enough. They can't even keep it out of JAILS, where you have multiple nets to catch it.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
I'm going to portray an opinion based on my feelings, not from any real tactical standpoint.

Why not shock and awe?

Find out where they live, where they hide their toys, and blow that # up. Screw tactics, and screw trying to interdict their operations, infiltrate the hierarchy, eliminate the leaders...

Just break their toys. Over and over and over.

Just let them know that they are going to continue to pay a high price if they continue to hurt people.

That is all.

Originally posted by MattMulder


All those guys need, IMO, is a complete closure of the US-MExican border, curfew, summary executions of suspected drug dealers. Tough problem, tougher solution.

You never get rid of something by targetting supply.

You need to target DEMAND. And people don't like that.

You have to make it so that people don't want to buy it.

Because otherwise you just drive the price up, and make the risk of providing it worth it. And there is ALWAYS a way in.

If someone is willing to pay for it, someone else is willing to provide it so long as the price exceeds the risk. Drugs are one thing that you need go up in price to handsome sums to make it unavailable to the user.

Simple economics.

You would have to jail the USERS. You'd have to do things that make jail more unpleasant than it is worth it to continue using the drug.

Jails have a constant supply of drugs. Which beggars your solution, since they have laws, restrictions, removal of freedoms, guards, walls.....and they STILL have a drug problem.

There is no wall so high that someone isn't willing to scale it for profit.

reply to post by jam321


Its only a matter of time before we are overtly involved in the narcoguerilla war in Mexico. Either the cartels are going to force our hand and we move in or more than likley we will go in after Mexico is completely destabilized.

Before this is all over with, a joint US-Canadian force will end up occupying most of Mexico. The Southern portion around the Yucatan and Chiapas will be more or less left alone, except for Tabasco.

How will we do this?

Everything from drones to private operators.

I don't think all of the cartels will wiped out. We will end working with some of them to fight the others. The ones we can manipulate and influence will be the ones that survive. This exact same scenario has played out already in Afghanistan. So we are more than ready for this.

They could be defeated overnight if the US made drugs legal.

Pot is a weed. Cocaine is just a simple to grow plant.

They have almost no value except if they are "illegal".

Make drugs legal and you break the back of the drug cartels.

Then you could spend a fraction of the money that is spent on policing drugs on rehab programs.

reply to post by Wildbob77


It won't happen. Even if it was a good idea, our system is so big, corrupt and bureaucratic it wouldn't happen.

The cartels also don't exist just to make money. They are warlords who operate neo feudal societies. The farmers are their peasants and serfs. They will not free their serfs. They will control the supply and influence demand. They will continue to use their mercenaries like knights who enforce their rule, collect protection taxes and tolls.

In the real world this is true, as the drug money keeps the stock market going. Why would police want to stop these things as police need more money.

Alot of things do not make sense or even go against logic, when they come out with there phoney war on drugs. Yep right is that why the police need to prove there existence, why would that problem ever go away.

They're trying to defeat the cartels with Big Pharma. Easy to obtain drugs that have all the same effects as heroin/coke/ecstasy, you name it, they have it in a pill form.

Big Pharma, while completely evil itself, is what they will try to use as a tool to defeat illegal drugs.

Get the C.I.A. to overthrow the govt., put one in of our liking that will serve our purpose. They should be good at it at this point, they've done it for how long now?

Legalize marijuana and sell it in cigarette pack form and tax the HELL out of it. It'll create jobs and add to our tax base.

Water down the heroin and coc aine slowly to wean the poor addicts off of it. That, or put it in pill form so big pharma will still get a piece of the action.

Keep the supply and demand chain on both sides of the border going at a brisk pace so as not to disrupt anything too much. We can do this without drugging our own population to death while keeping the poor bastards in Mexico busy with something to do.



Peace

Well this is a easy one...The cartels have strings into the big corps and banks in US...the banks and big corps own your senators...so who are really going to stop the cartels?...not the people, the people are brainwashed by the tv and drugs...so there you have it.

atleast 50 percent of the americans have a tomato where the brain used to sit...and the rest of you which actually have a brain, and want to stop the mess are getting fewer...so the cartels are sitting safe for now...

I think the main problem here is that the drug Cartels truly have a conspiracy going. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this country that has not tried drugs, bought drugs, sold drugs, lost someone to drugs, voted for a politician who was later busted with drugs, etc etc...

My point being, this has permeated every aspect of our culture. I will be the first to admit, human beings have an inherent interest in altering their natural state of mind, whether its sex, drugs, shopping, alcohol...

There have been stories for decades of how the CIA has been caught dealing drugs, and allowing drug kingpins to continue operations as long as they work out a $$ agreement. This is probably much more widespread than we think. Where there are tremendous amounts of money, there are powerful people who will stop at nothing to retain their lucrative position.

As the saying goes, everyone has a price. This is probably true for people who go after these groups, if they are powerful themselves, such as high ranking DEA, CIA, political groups. If they get too close, they most likely are offered two choices, either work with us, or against us.

In most cases, these drug organizations are so organized, they wont waste their time killing you, instead they'll track down your family, everyone close to you and kill them instead. If that doesnt make someone want to just turn a blind eye to drugs I dont know what would.

Its my feeling that as long as people desire to alter their minds, there will be people, ready and willing to give it to them. Whether its the doctors, drug dealers, narcotics detectives that like to pinch from the evidence rooms, matters not. The market is there.

Originally posted by jam321
Any suggestions?

boot the illegals out !!!

mexican drug gangs on American streets make a huge profit
for these cartels. If we would enforce the laws
we already have in place, this could be fixed.

reply to post by tristar


Right and those pissed off citizens are gonna fight back with WHAT??? the government has assured the public is disarmed.