Mexican cartels cannot be defeated, drug lord says

I wonder how long before we see "Los Pepes" make their appearance in Mexico.

Los Pepes

Los Pepes (from Spanish: Perseguidos por Pablo Escobar, "people persecuted by Pablo Escobar"), was a short-lived vigilante group composed of various enemies of narcotics kingpin Pablo Escobar.

Los Pepes waged a bloody war against Escobar and his associates in the early 1990s.

en.wikipedia.org...

Other documents uncovered to date indicate that the CIA was a principle source of information related to Los Pepes and to its members’ ties to the Search Bloc. A cable sent by the US Ambassador to Colombia, Morris Busby in August of 1993 detailed a series of meetings with senior Colombian officials about Los Pepes. The cable indicates that according to CIA sources, CNP director General Miguel Antonio Gomez Padilla said “that he had directed a senior CNP intelligence officer to maintain contact with Fidel Castaño, paramilitary leader of Los Pepes, for the purposes of intelligence collection.”

paulpaz.com...

I don't accept that the Drug Cartels cannot be broken. To bring down the Drug Cartels would require that all currency be controlled with financial banking surveillance and secondly that transportation assets be strictly controlled and monitored.

Controlling these two alone could undermine significantly their ability to move and or pay for criminal services. With no way to pay and no way to move, these two items alone could be significant enough to crush the back of all drug cartels, not just the Mexican Drug Cartels, but the CIA as well. While I do not expect this to happen, we currently have the technology to know who the money launderers are and what banks are involved and what politicians support such drug interests. We could today if we had the will, end the drug problem.

We choose not to because the system and the criminals that make their illicit and illegal profits control law enforcement, judges and even our legislators. With such a severe level of corruption, is it no wonder that the Drug Cartels have gained so much power over their drug business? Isn't this what American corporations do to all of America with their structured monopolies and control over profits at all costs?

We have reached a critical point in our system of failed government where today or very soon, we will be forced to buy the product and we have no way to complain about what we pay and why we have to pay it. With illegal legislation that creates public law, we now have corporations bribing politicians to pass laws to buy their products and of course the corporations are exempt from any accountability and can charge what they want while we the public have no recourse and can hold no one accountable for their crimes or their failed products or services.

Corruption of our judicial system, law enforcement, and our elected officials is why we have a drug problem. Fix the corruption and then tweak the system and our drug problem would mostly disappear into history.

Control the money, monitor the transportation and end the systemic corruption that only assists criminal drug operations in our many forms of government and system of controls. I strongly believe that these three factors are very important to ending our drug problem. Let's hope someone reads this and the light bulb goes on.

Anyway, thanks for the posting.

reply to post by ripcontrol

First go after their money...

I hope we do a better job than this.

The deferred prosecution agreement announced in Miami, which included a $50 million fine to be paid to the U.S. Treasury, was the largest penalty ever imposed for a violation of the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida Jeffrey H. Sloman told reporters.

Sloman said a "systematic" failure by Wachovia, now a unit of Wells Fargo & Co, to maintain effective anti-money laundering (AML) controls had led to more than $400 billion in unmonitored funds being channeled to accounts at the bank between 2004 and 2007 by currency exchange houses in Mexico, mostly through wire transfers

www.reuters.com...

reply to post by ripcontrol


Going after the transportation routes isn't really feasible. The sheer number of people crossing the border daily would be impossible to screen individually. I do agree that militarizing the border is essential, its embarrassing how easy people can sneak in.

As for going after the money, well that is a problem also. Our government did make some changes to the law so that it is easier to freeze cartels bank accounts and go after anyone helping them, but a lot of the money is in Mexico. The money in Mexico is hard to go after because everyone is funded by the cartels.

reply to post by MaxBlack

We choose not to because the system and the criminals that make their illicit and illegal profits control law enforcement, judges and even our legislators. With such a severe level of corruption, is it no wonder that the Drug Cartels have gained so much power over their drug business? Isn't this what American corporations do to all of America with their structured monopolies and control over profits at all costs?

Everybody seems to get a piece of the pie. In Mexico, it is under the table and here it is law. Before everybody starts bashing the LEO's over this, they didn't write it into law.

As a result, the amount of drug dollars flowing into local police budgets is staggering. Justice Department figures show that in the past four years alone, the amount of assets seized by local law enforcement agencies across the nation enrolled in the federal program—the vast majority of it cash—has tripled, from $567 million to $1.6 billion. And that d'esn't include tens of millions more the agencies got from state asset forfeiture programs.

In Texas, with its smuggling corridors to Mexico, public safety agencies seized more than $125 million last year.

www.npr.org...

reply to post by deenuu


You're also violating this site's rules. Legalizing drugs would be beneficial in some ways, but very detrimental in others. I am pretty confident there would still be a huge demand for illegal untaxed drugs. A little bit cheaper, worth the risk.

Here's a tactical thought - legalize and regulate rather than blanket legalization - regulation taxation takes the profit out of any endeavor and the business people quickly come to understand how to manipulate the new system. It's the demonized public policy that feeds the profit, most likely by design. The burden of security and protection is high for criminal enterprise, they'll adapt and overcome, expand and exploit in other areas.
It may drop the violent edge off the general public in areas of heavy activity - seems unlikely to maintain a reign of terror over the public for "parking tickets" (unlike hard time in prison).

And having visited the rural highlands of the Andes, any discussion of eradicating their coca crops would destroy them culturally as most highlanders chew it constantly to maintain themselves at high altitudes.
Body weight supply loads carried over the Inca trail in beach filp flops by locals. Absolutely amazing. Wanna stop it at the source? Fine, regulate the making of paste or alkaloid, make price controls.

gj

reply to post by red_d


Don’t know what I violated just an opinion and a very obvious one at that. Maybe my admission unsettled someone for that im sorry.

People will take drugs regardless, there is no respect for the current laws, and in Mexico and Portugal it has got to the point where drugs are being decimalized due to the extreme violence that come with prohibition.

The worst thing about this all is that alcohol and tobacco are legal and they kill far more people than the big 4, there not many gangs are running beer and ciggi cartels.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Janky Red

 

First as well.

The problem I have understanding is this:

Why aren't the people turning against the cartels? We have the same problems in the US where there is a gang that is threatening the area. Instead of standing up to them, they hide or remain silent.

I understand that the cartels/gangs are armed, but IMO the people know the individuals who are a part that make up the gang. Furthermore, there are more than one way to skin a cat. These guys have got to sleep at some time.

I have yet to find a solid source on what the cartel manpower is. I doubt if it is higher than 100,000.

Well I grew up in the Rampart Division LA Ca. which was basically the model for Hispanic gangs so unfortunately I know it too well.

The way they operate is with terror at the gang level, your own members often being as dangerous and terrorizing as rivals. Then you have these huge families who tolerate the gangs because they have family members who are apart of
it. In some neighborhoods, believe it or not the community at large does not care because at least they "know" these local members who keep other gangs (strangers)
off of their streets. Sort of like a vigilante police force of sorts... IMO all this is the X factor, not much different from the small town mentality we have here for example.


At a larger level the Cartels pit the various neighborhoods against one another. This ensures that the gangs HAVE to enforce terror and silence or face indirect retribution from the Mexican Mafia. The Mexican Mafia (State Side arm of the cartel essentially) will often fund/arm ALL the rival neighborhoods bordering a lax, uncooperative gang.
They also use constant and fierce inter-gang competition as a way to maintain the Cartels influence...

The thing is all of this is really coordinated in the prison system where gang affiliation takes a back seat to race typically. What goes on in the street is all manipulated by
the prison hierarchy... The cartels utilize this because they have an army of unproductive, racially devoted criminals to "employ". Plus prison is where a criminal
can coordinate with other criminals all of whom have family and a gang on the outs...


Now Mexico is another story, Mexico is run with corruption based upon regional and MACHO type pride. The same sort of "well at least these gangsters we know and they keep the ones we don't know, out" mentality that drive the tight lipped culture here in the states. Plus a regional PATRIOTISM that is completely insane, based partly upon
indigenous magical thinking, like eating to much chili will make you crap fire, literally


Then the cops and the FEDERALIES

Think SERPICO and the NYCPD corruption way back, "we don't rat on our own"; also in being involved IN the crime, they do have some level of control of the type of crime, etc... PLUS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

But I digress... the root of the problem is pitting so many small groups against eachother, therefor maintaining absolute control. Not unlike the US political system-

The other option is to COMPLETELY isolate ALL the Hispanics in prison (who tend to fall under the same banner inside), but that is a task, right? This would disrupt the distribution, stateside for a time.



[edit on 4-4-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by deenuu


It is a little hard to justify keeping things illegal when smoking and drinking still are. I just quit smoking and man was it hard. I don't even want to imagine what people go through quitting the 'hard' stuff.

another option -

Wonderful, very CIA thing to do, an - Iran VS Iraq or Russia VS Taliban type thing


US could covertly fund and aide trafficking from the south, which would require the cartel/s to focus more on defending its networks and territories in Mexico. Although I do not think this would help along our boarder because it might actually help northern cartels become more powerful.

reply to post by jam321


For starters, the 'war on drugs' is sutained by the profits which are being made on both sides of this 'war' .

It is foolish to believe that it will ever be curtailed as long as there is a hidden hand here in the U.S. that allows it to continue to flourish.

This is nothing but just another tool in the ultimate agenda.

A CASHLESS society will be the ONLY solution. You mark my words and see.

It's coming anyway, and the drug 'problem' is only one of many reasons that will be alluded to when it comes time to implement it . Drugs, child abductions, identity theft, credit card fraud, armed robberies, home invasions, etc., will justify the implementation of a cashless society . First the card, next the chip .

It's coming people , like it or not .

Sorry


Ya

Decriminalization -

or a moat with acid and acid tolerant Sharks with Kevlar

or a Ten mile no mans land with automated death machines and ZERO boarder crossing either way.

It is SO damn complicated

Originally posted by jam321


The Cartel War has similar patterns to the war on terrorism. No matter how many bad guys we get, there always seem to be a replacement waiting in line.

IMO, a military campaign cannot defeat the cartels. Napolitano has already admitted that our troops are doing limited work in Mexico. At what point will more of our troops be dragged into this war? and at what cost?

Mexico and the US need a new strategy.

Any suggestions?


Please keep the thread to strategies.



news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well, the main problem is that there is a heck of a lot of money in the drug trade, so there is incentive for people to keep joining the cartels. If there was no incentive to work for the cartels (i.e. if they couldn't make money) the problem would go away.

So, to me, it seems that the best strategy is to take away the monetary incentive. Of course, the only way to do that is obvious, but I can't mention it here on ATS, otherwise I would get banned for going against ATS policy. But you know what I mean....and it starts with the letter "L".

I think that strategy is the best. If the drug lords can't make money running drugs, they won't keep running drugs. After all, once the 18th amendment got repealed, the mob stopped running moonshine because they couldn't make any money at it, anymore once liquor was legal.

reply to post by red_d


Yeah man im quitting smokes now and saying its hard is an understatement, horrible things to give up. The harder stuff which most people would call pot I have also quit before after smoking very heavily for a decade was like somebody telling you that you couldn’t drink cold water anymore its a bit of a pain and sometimes you really want it, but I had hardly any withdrawals which to me proves the harder stuff isn’t so hard, I can now enjoy in moderation.

Granted heroin is a different kettle of fish all together I don’t dispute that but I would rather my government have control of these substances than criminals and the mess that Mexico is in right now would disappear over a few years, it really is that simple to me.

COME ON PEOPLE! Why the hell have Americans lost so much common sense! KISS! Keep it simple stupid! You want to crack the drug cartels you SEAL THE DAMN BORDER! Put the military on it, double the number of border patrol agents and build some fences. This is a complete and utter joke. Mexican drug cartels threatening the lives of Americans and our sovereignty? What the hell happen to our balls? Or can we not find them because 60% of our country is fat? Give me an effing break! It doesn't matter if the US demand for drugs is insane......pooh hoo! if the drugs can't get through you break the back of these cartles PERIOD!

The reason the US government doesn't want to seal the border and beef up security is because they operate at the behest of corporate America and the hispanic politicians who have a very influential impact on our country. Wake up people! Hispanics will be the majority in America! Is it no surprise they don't want to seal the border? It's not just about drugs.......all you people clamoring for legalizing drugs or the US government is involved in drug trafficking are missing the point. It's as much political correctness as it is some sort of conspiracy.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
COME ON PEOPLE! Why the hell have Americans lost so much common sense! KISS! Keep it simple stupid! You want to crack the drug cartels you SEAL THE DAMN BORDER! Put the military on it, double the number of border patrol agents and build some fences. This is a complete and utter joke. Mexican drug cartels threatening the lives of Americans and our sovereignty? What the hell happen to our balls? Or can we not find them because 60% of our country is fat? Give me an effing break! It doesn't matter if the US demand for drugs is insane......pooh hoo! if the drugs can't get through you break the back of these cartles PERIOD!

The reason the US government doesn't want to seal the border and beef up security is because they operate at the behest of corporate America and the hispanic politicians who have a very influential impact on our country. Wake up people! Hispanics will be the majority in America! Is it no surprise they don't want to seal the border? It's not just about drugs.......all you people clamoring for legalizing drugs or the US government is involved in drug trafficking are missing the point. It's as much political correctness as it is some sort of conspiracy.

Well, I agree

I am a liberal, but there is a point when enough is enough... damn the politicians who are not American first and foremost

Although I think it would take creating a strip of land, stripped bare and increasing the
BP 10 fold...

You can throw up all the fences you want. It would work for a week, then drug prices would skyrocket and the cartels would just start sending over a huge number of people through the border crossing, or using submarines, or constructing tunnels etc. Complicated situations call for complicated solutions. As stated previously, this is a multifaceted problem and building a fence really wont do much.

Do agree that our politicians are completely spineless though. The PC issue is also a valid point. It would certainly be nice if the politicians would at least pretend they were doing something about it.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by red_d]

Mexico for the most part is just a transhipment point for most of the drugs coming out of Columbia, Blovia and Peru.

They have some limited marijuana production, and some limited heroin production, and some counterfit pharmacutical production but the real wealth they generate is smuggling for the South Americans.

We have seen alternately Cubans, Jamaicans and Hatians have the lion's share of that contract in times past, and the easiest way to break the Mexican Cartells is to just select another country as a transhipment point.

If you want to totally bankrupt them then spray their marijuana and opium fields, and they will all be back to picking tomotaoes and strawberries again.

Right now the Oligarchs are content for political reasons to have the instability that comes with armed gangs with too much money to think straight, on our borders.

Once they play the political move that they want to get what ever domestic policy they want after that, then they will switch the transhipment point again and break them.

Pretty foolish talk and boasting for glorified middlemen, they are the easiest thing in the world to replace.