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Mexican cartels cannot be defeated, drug lord says

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posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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Mexican cartels cannot be defeated, drug lord says


news.yahoo.com

Ismael "el Mayo" Zambada, the right hand man of Mexico's most notorious drug lord, Sinaloa cartel boss Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman, blamed the government for surging drug violence and said President Felipe Calderon was being duped by his advisors into thinking he was making progress.

"One day I will decide to turn myself in to the government so they can shoot me. ... They will shoot me and euphoria will break out. But at the end of days we'll all know that nothing changed," Zambada told the investigative newsmagazine Proceso.

"Millions of people are wrapped up in the narco problem.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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The Cartel War has similar patterns to the war on terrorism. No matter how many bad guys we get, there always seem to be a replacement waiting in line.

IMO, a military campaign cannot defeat the cartels. Napolitano has already admitted that our troops are doing limited work in Mexico. At what point will more of our troops be dragged into this war? and at what cost?

Mexico and the US need a new strategy.

Any suggestions?


Please keep the thread to strategies.







news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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Mexican cartels cannot be defeated, drug lord says



I will openly say...that i defy such a publication. We may be slow, but trust me....when # hits the fan. we WILL assure citizens of their right to be safe, regardless of domestic or foreign threat....Sound familiar ...!

Way too much lack of information.....


Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 4/5/2010 by maria_stardust]



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Usually I would say legalize and regulate the drugs these cartels are selling, but that might just cause an even greater backlash from the cartels..



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:47 PM
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Legalize drugs. That stops their funding. Eventually they wither and die.


Even if you defeat them, but you keep drugs illegal, new ones will pop up to take their place. The problem is drugs are illegal, and yet millions of americans want to use them. So they get keys to the bank account of millions of Americans... What did you think would happen?


From the article:

Millions of people are wrapped up in the narco problem. How can they be overcome? For all the bosses jailed, dead or extradited their replacements are already there.


That pretty much sums it up. Keep drugs illegal, and this will never end..

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Kaytagg]



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Are there correlations that can be drawn between the old-school Mafia and the Cartels?

How has the Mafia (as an entity) been targeted? How has it evolved?

Perhaps there is something to disseminate from the parallels....



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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His wording is incorrect all the way through. What he means to say is that the Cartels are making way too much money selling drugs to our children to be stopped; they were never stopped in first place because our Gov't wanted to cash in on it, and still is, plus, by declaring this war, they're making it "allegedly harder" to smuggle the sheeze in, making it even more expensive. We're the United States. If we didn't want drugs in this country, they would not be here. And I know people in the Mexican Mafia, especially the one they mentioned the Sinaloa cartel, known for their brutality, violence, and not giving a flying turd about anything what so ever, and that barely includes their own survival and well-being.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


I don't believe the Mafia had troops chasing them.

The best way is to infiltrate the group. However, Mexico has already shown that they can't keep their prisoners behind bars.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 



Initially, the American Maria was a prominent supplier of bootlegged liquor. That required good connections with the local police department and political machines. Paying off the local beat cop provided a speakeasy, with its conspicuous and regular flow of traffic, little effective protection. Instead, it was necessary to guard against any cop who might be on that beat; the efficient solution was buying the whole department, if it was for sale. In many cities it was. Frequently, that also meant connections with urban political machines.


findarticles.com...

Sounds like Mexico's current problem.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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Tactics or Strategies? The OP calls for strategies and we repond with tactics. Basically the guy is right: the factions and the money are too big to combat and contain by warfare or police action. What kind of policy shift would devalue their already diversified criminal activities beyond drugs and money laundering? Like the "war on terrorism" the drug war is essentially a myth - war is an inappropriate antiquated tool but very profitable and well understood by power. Thus his assertion is correct: we must lose in a war on the cartels. Essentially it's all about the same power profit and greed in which all sides are completely vested - thus completely motivated to maintain rather than resolve. Strategy is essential, but not for winning the war - for changing the game - essentially change the social conceptualization of the problem to allow a solution that addresses underlying social issues. We need a new way to approach the problem besides "die die kill you all". ED: disclaimer: Quote from Star Trek episode

Just my 2c - wish I had clue on tactics for accomplishing that one.

gj

[edit on 4-4-2010 by ganjoa]



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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Jam, decriminalize drugs or poison the in country US drug supply covertly.

I would go with the first

What says you?



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by ganjoa
 


I must agree. If a number of the social issues in Mexico were addressed, I believe the number of people willing to risk life and limb smuggling drugs would decrease. The issue is not as simple as just militarizing the border or legalizing drugs. Even if it were possible and not morally reprehensible killing everyone involved wouldn't solve a thing. Ten more would be waiting to fill those vacant slots. Toss in the rampant corruption of the Mexican government, military and police and it really does seem rather bleak. I say make every 5th grader watch a video of someone going through rehab. Educate our kids, maybe someday there wouldn't be a supply. I'm not holding my breath...



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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Interesting analysis - though still does not answer the questions...


Analysts struggle to describe Mexico’s cartel war. To what paradigm(s) does it belong, and what historical analogies apply?

The problem of drug cartels in Mexican society is definitely a criminal problem, a struggle with organized crime, complicated by corruption within Mexican police forces.

On the other hand, since the Mexican military is involved it can also be analyzed as a series of military operations.

Some have gone so far as to call it a civil war. To be sure, it does share some aspects of a civil war, but in some ways it’s even more complicated.

Violent actions of Mexican drug cartels can also be seen as a form of terrorism.


And...


Another historical parallel is the Sicilian Mafia, a powerful organization that security forces struggled to contain. A recent article in The New York Times makes a case that the U.S. and Mexico can defeat the drug cartels like the U.S. and Italy defeated the Mafia. There may be lessons to be learned from that example, though once again, it’s not a perfect fit either. For one thing, Mafia organizations were more stable than Mexico narco cartels.


And...


The issue recalls another historical parallel – the American prohibition of alcohol from 1920-1933. During alcohol prohibition there were powerful gangsters, such as Al Capone and Bugs Moran, who distributed the prohibited substances, and fought with each other and with the U.S. government.


searching for paradigms and parallels...



[edit on 4-4-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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A lot of people just don't get it..

Legalising Drugs creates a whole host of problems for the Law Enforcement Department.

For starters, if Drugs were legalised, 2/3rds of the Law Enforcement People would not be needed and would be put out of a Job. Why do you think there are so many Campigns saying how deadly illegal drugs are..

If Drugs became Legal, then anyone could possibly produce these drugs. The Pharma Companies would not like this one bit. They'd lose Billions of dollars if illegal drugs were Leagal.

It's just a Circle that goes around and around and around.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


First as well.

The problem I have understanding is this:

Why aren't the people turning against the cartels? We have the same problems in the US where there is a gang that is threatening the area. Instead of standing up to them, they hide or remain silent.

I understand that the cartels/gangs are armed, but IMO the people know the individuals who are a part that make up the gang. Furthermore, there are more than one way to skin a cat. These guys have got to sleep at some time.

I have yet to find a solid source on what the cartel manpower is. I doubt if it is higher than 100,000.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


I believe in many cases it is in people's best interest to support the cartels. Think how many families are fed by those ill gotten gains. From just about every cross section of Mexican society, drugs play a prominent role. For the desperately poor, maybe a son sends money home, for the wealthy there are kickbacks and for the average Jose there is the fear of your entire family being murdered.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by red_d
 



For the desperately poor, maybe a son sends money home, for the wealthy there are kickbacks and for the average Jose there is the fear of your entire family being murdered.


Point well taken.

I was talking to a friend of mine that works on the border.

He says that the cartels are now forcing some people to cross their merchandise.

In other words, these poor people have two options.

One is cross and possibly get busted and go to jail or two- die.

Not a pretty scenario either way.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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I vote for liberal applications of napalm. Start at the Rio Grande and head south until you torch the coca plantations. That should get their attention.



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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Well OP I am really beginning to like your threads...

The overall strategy is to make them say MAMA....

In this vein several have hit the note but in the wrong key...

First go after their money...
Second go after their lower legs...
Third go after their transportation routes...

When they adapt...

First go after their leaders...
Second go after their growers...
Third go after their supporters...

Rinse repeat...

Their money..

Well few people ever beat the IRS...

Send IRS agents with the treasury to their front doors with demand for payment

Special forces is already their...

You see legally they have paid no taxes on their profits in the US...

Raid and seize time... Any bank accounts they have freeze, All of them down to the lower LTs... Demand full payment for all of it NOW...

Instead of surrendering to the US they will fight... They fired first...


Start taking out their lower level Lts.. Use what ever means you feel like... A huge business cant operate without district managers or store managers...

Use the Classic they are Child pornographers!!!!!! Hope they enjoy general pop...

Transportation routes-
This is key very important... Nothing moves or is allowed to leave from transportation area to dealers... Hit at various points along the route

It is a start...

A major hearts and minds campaign needs to begun immediately... The Drug lords have the US on this front...

I am pretty sure you can flesh it out more...



posted on Apr, 4 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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Article on Prevention Efforts

I found this to be rather interesting. It seems that prevention programs are (were) estimated to be much more cost effective than Law Enforcement. There are some pretty staggering statistics on this page. And yes Jam, it is a horrible spot for those people to be in. Die or possibly jail. I know which I would choose. Though going out shooting would be tempting.



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