Why I Love War

reply to post by hyperion.martin


Hey I only read the OP.

I love war too let's admit it, it is inEVItabLe and will never end, you might as well figure out how to WIN.

Originally posted by hyperion.martin
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

Ok, I will stop and not bother arguing the definition of your definition lol

however, what is your opinion? Why is "rejecting" War better than peace?

Just to interject, you gave this thread a very provcative title, so don't be suprised at the various forms of indignation it has aroused.

In your original post, you extended the range of your argument beyond war itself to more generalized forms of conflict and competition. So perhaps your thread would be better titled with one of these words.

I think war and conflict are pretty much inevitable features of human life, or at least close enough to inevitable to make little difference at this stage in our development. But that doesn't mean we have to "love" these things to accept them or even excel at them.

When people say they love conflict and competition, what they really mean in most cases is that they love winning, rather than the competition itself. It isn't so much fun to lose a war, or a leg in a war, or your life savings on the stock market, or whatever.

And...something many don't grasp until its too late is the element of blind luck that pervades all forms of competition. When you win any form of struggle, its easy to pat yourself on the back and think success was due entirely to your skill and prowess. These play a big role in success, to be sure. But for every talented and skillful winner, there are numerous other losers who were every bit as talented, skillful, and motivated...but were stymied by circumstances beyond their control. This is why the hyper-competitive ethic of people like Ayn Rand blustering "chickenhawk" armchair commandos is so cartoonish and simplistic. A true understanding of the relationship between competition and luck brings humility and compassion. And we can embrace this wisdom even as we realize we are fated to struggle on in various unpleasant competitions out of human necessity.

reply to post by hyperion.martin


I agree with you, and I see your point. Its not about whether or not you enjoy killing someone, at that point its too late to decide if you like it or not. In this world, sometimes its kill or be killed, and to the victor go the spoils.

I have always considered myself a student of military strategy. After all, there is an instinct for boys to be drawn towards weapons and battles, and girls towards baby dolls.

If you study some of the military strategies by the best known generals, you will see in some cases, sheer genius.

Life is indeed like a chess board, always think several moves ahead, make your next move your best move, and always be wary of your opponent. This same principal can be applied to anything in life. Politics, sports, friendships.

And I know we have many people on ATS who are peace loving, delicate flowers. That is great! Everyone is different. But, as long as we are human beings, we will fight. For what, matters not, as there will be more than enough conflict to go around.

I think the idea of competition is advancing an idea to you that conflict in being inherent to all life.

Not true. The situation dictates conflict but most important or rather integral to all of what your saying is the choice.

The choice is what you are there is no label that makes you a beast or some scrappy force to interact to either defeat or conquest. Its situations. YOU are the choice.

reply to post by hyperion.martin


"Name an empire built by peace……or a religion. Tell me of a place where there is pure equality….without conflict. Better yet, tell me of an invention that did not have just a little motivation from……….competition."

you ask us to name an empire or religion built by peace.... as though those two items are good things to have around. empires enslaves, and religions corrupt.

instead of telling you of a place of eternal peace, tell me of a place of literal perpetual war.

competition is not war. it is competition.

there must be a balance of war and peace. no one force can reign eternally.

there must be a balance

Originally posted by hyperion.martin
reply to post by LORD ARES

 

I think you got it backwards friend, without conflict there could be no peace........non-sentient animals were having battles long before we created the idea of peace.

Now that I think about it, there really is no peace....just calmness....before the storm so to speak

no, you both have it wrong, but both have it right. without one, there can not be the other. non-sentient? how did u conclude this?

by this logic, no one actually lives, they just wait to die.

Originally posted by Humble Leo
I agree!
People need to stop making a big deal out of war. As far as I know there has and will always be war. Of course it's sad when a family member dies, but otherwise it's great honor to die for "your side".
War IS a constant, you may not like it.
Remember, if you hate war you are at war with war, so you always LOVE IT.

that last sentence is quite possibly the most retarded thing posted yet.

what if you detest war? are impartial to war?

what if you just wanted to type a response to get your opinion heard using some bunk-ass rhetoric.

War!

reply to post by hyperion.martin


Do not be alarmed hyperion.martin ! .... but violence is decreasing , and has been over the last couple of thousand years .This is currently probably the most peaceful span of time ever experienced by our species .
And yes that includes .....

the atrocities of Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Rwanda and other genocides, and even though the 21st century is only seven years old, we have already witnessed an ongoing genocide in Darfur and the daily horrors of Iraq.

Steven Pinker on the myth of violence

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by hyperion.martin

... non-sentient animals were having battles long before we created the idea of peace.

Mmm, no.

Animals kill each other mostly to eat.

We kill each other to protect/instill concepts.

Like the way two colonies of ants will kill each other?

Oh...wait, that isn't a good example to back you up, it kind of debunks you.

Oops.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


Thank you for posting this video.

The presentation is excellent.

100% truth there, thumbs up for you Umbra!

Violence is on the Decline!

reply to post by muzzleflash


Sarcasm is more effective if one reads the entire thread ...

The argument of anthropomorphizing animal behavior has already been addressed.

Wether I like 'war' depends on the type of warfare. War as a whole..mm...yes I would agree that competition creates a superior breed . More evolved , maybe.

I dont like 'colateral damage' at all.

I think if civilians are acceptable losses in any situation that it shouldnt be described with a buzzword. It should be made clear from the beginning. "hey were going to kill you and end your bloodline, livestock, women, elderly and children first, well kill you last of course so you have the pleasure of seeing everything you love tortured and burned. "

If you cant say it like that then civilian loss should not be acceptable.

If you apologize for something then you are admitting its wrong, and in that admission you are acknowledging the possibility of reprisal or punishment.

I dont like the Geneva Convention or the UN version of warfare. I believe that if a man puts on a uniform for a foreign power and tries to kill me then I should be able to adorn my vehicle with his body parts. Ive allways wanted human skin gloves. Im definitely all for alternative methods of warfare.

Wars are fought in so many different theatres, its crazy. Who needs nukes when weve got the press, and internet? The first time a baby died over a buisness deal, the world was screwed. Ill definitely embrace that. Its that paranoid screwjob that figured tossing a newborn into a tarpit would keep the gods happy, or the woman that literally sells her aborted fetus, or the lab that creates thousands more.

War diverts our attention from the fact that everyone is a participant in the slaughter of innocents, even the innocent themselves. It makes us feel like we have some value, even though we all know that we do not. The innocent are only innocent because they dont know that they have no value, so when I refer to 'we' I am speaking about those of us who understand this written word. Definitely not innocent.

What I like even more than war is realizing there is no war, and if there was we are already defeated. Wars fought between armies and nations are useless. So are the people who propogate them. Assasination is so much more effective.

But every once in a while a Daisy and a Janis Joplin tune really hit the spot.
I like war because Im afraid of peace, afraid I may like it and get use to it, then it hurts even worse when war comes and takes it from me. Little glimpses of peace are all we let ourselves have. If we have too much other people will see it and become jealous. And instead of sharing the peace, they try to steal it. How can there be peace when weve hurt so many?

Do we really even deserve peace? Unfortunately I dont think humans have earned it yet. When tptb start fighting the wars in thier heads instead of ones on foreign soil, then well be going in the right direction.

War is truly one of the weirdest and unique activity that our civilization takes practice in, I mean just sit there and think about it, you don't even need CoD or Band of Brothers and The Pacific to imagine how crazy, delusional, overall insane concept that the act of war is?

Just picture it, out in space somewhere there may be a civilization that could have made it pass their more barbaric ages to enter a utopia-like reality in which there is no war, no crime, no poverty. Could you possibly imagine what that would do for things? How it would give your civilization a huge headstart on climbing the civilization scale?

Only if we conquer the establishment of war and war-like activities will we truly be able to move on, and up the civilization scale, even if we manage to survive that long before one of the super-powers decide to screw us all over. Surely there are other civilizations out there that have been where we are at now and rose above their challenge, managing to survive, stop all wars, and increase their space-colonizing programs as a way to take advantage of the peace given(as long as it lasts) so we can eventually use entire planets as actual prison-planets and vacation resorts like The Fifth Element.

Then, even if war does show up again, they can at least control and contain it to one planet and one planet only, as to not start an intergalactic war. So who's to say that honestly, maybe no other civilizations have come this far and didn't accomplish colonizing other planets, and experiencing a extinction-level event due to their wars?

That's just wishful thinking though, the delusions that society literally brainwash into us during adolescence. That you're unique, one-of-a-kind, someone who's going to end up becoming the first black president or only female player on a football team, but how many of us ever do? Not many, right?

So chances are, we can't be the only one, if we even do manage to survive, not from outside forces, such as solar flares, natural disasters, asteroids, or aliens, but from ourselves, which in itself is just crazy. The only thing keeping us back are... ourselves... .

So that's just going into the concept of a civilization surviving constant conflict with itself and jump to the next level and start colonizing space itself, guaranteeing survival. But why do we do it? Why do we in most often times needlessly kill each other on a massive scale? Have entire world wars?

Are we just increasingly barbaric as we put on a front to signify that we're actually civilized? The point of life, and the life of a species, is to pass down your genes as to guarantee the survival of the species. At least, that's what our instincts tell us to believe.

I'm not saying we haven't evolved morally, kind of, but we haven't made it to where we should be aiming at. War is is an interesting yet terrible concept, and it 's constantly re-appearing throughout the history of our civilization, if we've been doing it for so long, and for so much, could it not yet be ingrained in our very civilization? What if we're too far in to actually stop it, and our minds are so used to it that it's become seen as a type of survival technique, so we evolved to accommodate our need, just like everything else?

There are many other ways to get that adrenaline rush.

I think this thread was purposely created to spark tension and conflict, as the posts seen on here; not many have any actual logic or critical thinking. The OP initiates this thread, steps back, and lets others fire up, only stepping in every so often to make encouraging remarks for either side of the party. He hasn't really provided any logic himself.
If he is a War VET, why doesn't he enlighten everyone else with personal experiences, that are relevant, as his reasoning for the original post?