Pope's immunity could be challenged in Britain

Pope's immunity could be challenged in Britain

news.yahoo.com

LONDON – Protests are growing against Pope Benedict XVI's planned trip to Britain, where some lawyers question whether the Vatican's implicit statehood status should shield the pope from prosecution over sex crimes by pedophile priests.

[...]

Although Benedict has not been accused of any crime, senior British lawyers are now examining whether the pope should have immunity as a head of state and whether he could be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction ....

(visit the link for the full news article)

I had to look up universal jurisdiction since I'm not very familiar with international law, so here's a quicky definition from wikipedia for everyone else who isn't familiar with it.

Universal jurisdiction or universality principle is a principle in international law whereby states claim criminal jurisdiction over persons whose alleged crimes were committed outside the boundaries of the prosecuting state, regardless of nationality, country of residence, or any other relation with the prosecuting country. The state backs its claim on the grounds that the crime committed is considered a crime against all, which any state is authorized to punish, as it is too serious to tolerate jurisdictional arbitrage.

With all the child abuse cases coming to light involving Catholic priests, it'll be interesting to see how this turns out. According to article, if it's decided the Pope doesn't have immunity then he could potentially be held responsible if they can prove the child abuse was known about and went unpunished by church officials.

There have been many claims and articles over the years about priests being relocated to different areas when they were accused of child abuse, which would certainly suggest that someone at least a level above them in the hierarchy was aware of and covering up their actions. Whether it goes all the way to the top is debatable though. Either way, anyone found to have known about and covered up cases of child abuse should be held accountable for endangering the welfare of innocent children. If that goes all the way up to the Pope, then so be it.

I am curious as to how that would affect the Catholic church in general if the Pope was to lose immunity as a head of state and be held responsible for the actions of the priests under him. I don't see it bringing down the entire church, but I'd say there would be some major ramifications from that happening.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow, it really looks like things are moving along this time. Theres always been rumblings of problems in the church but over the past week, its just exploded and isn't going away which is what needs to happen.

It is sad that certain people have so grossly ruined the religion for everyone who has struggled with their faith. I am not religious, nor spiritual but I know that if I was a member of this church, I would be so furious not over what was happening behind closed doors but how much disgrace they have brought to something that is supposed to be good.

reply to post by Jenna


F&S. Oh i would love to see him hauled in front of court, in Britain, on the charge of conspiracy to conceal acts of peadophillia.

That could go some way to ending the power of the Catholic Church.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


The irony of course being that the Catholic Church has no power in the UK..

Another page in the long running story of the UK versus Papism....

reply to post by stumason


Ha, yeah thank er....not God....oh yes, Henry VIII for that.

He is going to get an extremely unpleasent welcome when he enters our country. I wouldn't be surprised if he called the whole trip off

I am not so sure the loss of status as head of state wouldn't ultimately affect the status of the Church as a soverign entity resulting ultimately in "destruction" of it's immense wealth. What happens when one very well and long established pillar of society falls into the dust? What fills the power vacuum? More food for thought, must go eat now. Thanks!

gj

reply to post by ganjoa


Let us assume the UK really does arrest the Pope, try him, convict him, and sentence him to a very long jail sentence. I cannot see this creating any sort of power vacuum.

For starters, the church can simply elect a replacement pope. It can wage a little PR campaign to win back parishioners. At the end of the day, it will get the public to act like a little boy with a priest's DNA leaking from his orifice and pretend nothing ever happened.

Even if the church did collapse, its influence it fairly small in most parts of the world. The Vatican itself is a tiny state. The Italians could easily come in an maintain order if necessary. The church also plays a minor role in most parts of the industrialized world.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


First I have to say, that was a very... disturbing analogy..

According to this, there are over 1.16 billion baptized Catholics worldwide. And there are roughly 6.7 billion people on earth. 1/6 of the world's population is quite a chunk. Catholicism's influence might be small in many places, but there sure are a lot of them worldwide. It might actually create a fairly large ripple through the world if the Pope were to be held accountable. Whether the result will be a power vacuum, I don't know. But there would be wide-reaching effects I think.

Could this be plugged into the prophecies of the Last Pope? I thought I would just say something about it to get people's heads cranking and theorizing. That's what ATS is about, right?

As soon as the Pope lands in the UK, I would have him arrested, renditioned to some secret prison torture site and then the Pope should be water-boarded until he reveals what he knows about satanism and sacrificial murder of children in some of the more holy places in the Vatican. When done, I would then begin arresting everyone he named no matter who they are or what they do.

reply to post by Jenna


I believe the main reason he was made pope was to avoid the legal proceedings that were being made against him. if he had've been dragged into court he would've had to swear on the bible.

not that that would make him tell the truth.. I just think it would be wonderful for him to have to answer those charges instead of just saying "petty gossip".

[edit on 4-4-2010 by riley]

reply to post by Jenna


It would mean siding with him or not. They would have to basically choose between the pope and Jesus (as jesus would probably not condone child rape). Catholics are getting put into the position where to defend the pope they have to call rape victims liars.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by riley]

Immunity...

A pedophile's dream...

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Not in Scotland he will not, alot are gearing up for his visit with anticipation. The only place where one thinks he will receive protests, is when he visits the palace of wesminster. And anyway do you really think the UK Government, would allow his arrest to happen? No they would not. He is head of a Sovereign State. So has Immunity from arrest.

We arrest the Pope...Catholic leader....with the situation in Northern Ireland. That would go down fine I'm sure

SHOULD he be arrested, if he knew then yes. Will people die if he is arrested...quite likely unfortunately.

reply to post by StevenDye


The Government will snub the order if a warrant for his arrest is issued. Just as they did when there was a warrant for arrest for the Former Israeli Defense Minister. The UK Government will not allow any arrest to happen.

reply to post by Laurauk


Exactly....but before people jump on any wagons to boo the government down. Just remember it is probably saving lives....even if that never factored into the governments decision.

I don't expect this to happen and the govt will no doubt make sure that any protesters get nowhere near enough to make themselves heard by the man himself.

The really galling thing about all this is how much the poor UK taxpayer is going to have to shell out for the security for the visit of this man.

Why should I have to pay for the visit of the pope?

Well lets face it, he personaly couldnt be convicted, even if he was tried, because theres only one organisation which is better at cover ups than the Catholic church, and that would be the NSA .
Further more, theres no reason to suspect the pope of having commited a crime in person, and if he had commited a crime by stifling evidence, well that would be hard enough to prove,even if he WASNT the freakin pope!
Lets face it, this is all bombast and blabbering to keep the topic at the head of the agenda sheet, and Im all for that, because lest face it, theres nothing more sickening than a priest damaging a child for life. Its the antithesis of everything Christ taught, and the perpetrators should be ashamed to the point of self elimination in my opinion. Honourless scum the lot of them.
But on the subject of the pope, theres no and I mean literaly ZERO proof that he had anything at all to do with a cover up . Until there is some evidence, there is no point in an arrest. Its just asking for trouble.