Vatican dismisses child abuse scandal as 'petty gossip' as row overshadows Easter services Read m

reply to post by Parallex


I do not feel xenophobic to ANYONE... The Palestinians is sheer exasperation... You would feel the same if you had lead my life and lost what I have... The sacrifices i have made personally for peace have been thrown in my face by these people.... Exasperation is actually an understatement..

Back to the subject at hand please.. My character or lack there of in your sight is not what this thread is about...

Originally posted by Yissachar1

I think Christianity was never supposed to be a religion.. Christs teachings actually express that theme over and over again... It was meant to set people free from religious control to freedom of just loving one another... That was the whole thing... However this got hijacked by immoral men who used it and subverted it to secure their grip on the masses... That is plainly obvious.... But that in itself served to quiet the message that Yeshua preached to one of servitude to church and state, when ALL we were meant to do was serve one another...

Very interesting point.

You seem to have an unusual viewpoint of theism. You state that Christianity was never meant to be a religion, yet you subscribe to the 'Christ' construct that it created?

I agree with you about the philosophy by the way - we should indeed serve each other, and if a church must come in to it, we should have a Church of Man. Worship the miracle of our existence - with all other life being alternative miracles. Be amazed and awed by the chastened holiness of science, rather than abstract, intangible, fictional stories.

Why do you purport this 'Yeshua' exists when clearly it doesn't?

Parallex.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Parallex]

reply to post by Parallex


This is not a discussion on the existence of Yeshua but the attitude and stance that the RC authority has taken on the recent news... Stay on subject and stop derailing the thread..

MODS PLEASE TAKE NOTE..

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Parallex

 

I do not feel xenophobic to ANYONE... The Palestinians is sheer exasperation... You would feel the same if you had lead my life and lost what I have... The sacrifices i have made personally for peace have been thrown in my face by these people.... Exasperation is actually an understatement..

Back to the subject at hand please.. My character or lack there of in your sight is not what this thread is about...

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you - I'm trying to understand your views. It's quite difficult given the diverging beliefs you hold.

On the one hand, you state that xenophobia is bad, and that you are just 'exasperated' at the actions of the Palestinian nation. Yet on the other, you propound xenophobic comments about Palestinians individually, combined with an obvious past history of 'trouble' concerning Palestinians.

Yet, you also describe yourself (given avatars and comments) as an English Nationalist? You've clearly served in the Grenadier Guards or some other such unit so I don't understand how you can be an Israeli and an English Nationalist?

How do you reconcile attacking an undefendable position on child abuse, when you hold an undefendable position about the 'Palestinian Question'?

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


I am not having this discussion with you on this thread.. It is not about me... U2U me if you are THAT bothered...

I will ignore anymore comments that are NOT about the subject at hand..

Thats a shame - I got the impression you had a solid viewpoint on the relationship between the two issues that you could defend logically.

I think it's hard to condemn something undefendable like Child Abuse (especially in the religious context), when you look to defend an issue like the 'Palestinian Question' as well as proclaim religious belief.

All I'm trying to point out is that it's all well and good to condemn the Catholic religion - but if you hold dear something equally undefendable as you do, it's a form of hipocrisy yes?

One rule for them, one for someone else? Surely that's not fair?

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


I have U2U'd you... I will not discuss my very personal life here..

Thanks for the message. It reveals a lot about you and your situation.

Try and keep your 'feelings' towards Palestinians off the boards - it helps when you discuss something like religion. That way you come from an even playing field, rather than a questionable one.

I think we've done with our discussion on this topic don't you?

Good luck with everything, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate.

Parallex.

Somethings not quite right here (well, there are a few 'not quite right' things....but them aside...)

Why, when it is blatantly obvious to everyone, when admissions of guilt have been made, when there has been apologies...etc, are we being given the 'petty gossip' line ?

My gut feeling is that many of those guilty of offences AND now in a position of power are getting old and they know they dont have much time left. e.g (and this is just a 'what if') the pope himself is guilty of kiddy fiddeling and needs the investigation to be halted before it gets too deep (no pun intended)

Its as if someone has drawn a line at "We'll admit collective responsibilty and apologise, but it goes no further. We'll make sure the spotlight points to one side or the other of us, but we need to protect our own backs and our followers. If we get found out we go down (no pun intended) in history as the ones responsible for bringing the RC church to its knees (no pun intended) and destroying the faith"

It reeks of last ditched effort to cling on.

As stated, the pope was then the cardinal in charge of the holy doctorine and so the churchs disciplinary dept, and indeed he swept cases, such as Lawrence Murphys, under the carpet.
After a private interview with Murphy (who was to be punished for abusing more than 200 children) Ratzinger decided a punishment wasnt necessary and let him walk free without even moving him from his parish???

But, what else could you expect from an ex nazi.

In Italy there's a saying "Arrampicarsi sugli specchi" (Litterally "climbing on mirrors") which basically mean "to argue that black is white": THIS is what VAtican is doing right now, using all their fourth estates and political friends in order to convince everyone that the bad guys are those of NYT who exposed them by disclosing the proof.
Vatican is at its lowest level of credibility and this is fact, regardless one believes in Christ, Roman Church or whatever.
What happened is simply U.N.A.C.C.E.P.T.A.B.L.E, period.
Guess what happened in Italy on April 2?
During an interview, a prosecutor from Milan (Pietro Forno) who investigates cases of abuses and rapes, stated that he never get any help from church: all the cases of child abuses related to priests he has been informed about had as source the relatives of the victims, most of them decided to talk to some magistrate only after having realized that the Church didn't want take any action about it. Then he added:
"In the many years that I have dealt with this, never — and I stress, never — have I received a single complaint from bishops, or priests. And that's a bit odd."
Well, the Minister of Justice, Alfano has sent some INSPECTORS to investigate over... the prosecutor!
it.reuters.com...

(note: an Associated Press tally has documented 73 cases with allegations of sexual abuse by priests against minors over the past decade in Italy, with more than 235 victims).
Yes yes, they are all liars, it's all petty gossip, and NYT fabricated the documents proving that HE knew and did nothing.
Even Der Spiegel, a major german newspaper, basically asked him to resign ""With his authority eroded, why does he even remain in office?"
See The Fallibility of the Infallible Pope by By Peter Wensierski

In the same article he posed a question: "When is it time for a pope to resign?"

Well, if this is not the time, then I'd say that the answer is NEVER.

reply to post by internos


In the UK lawyers are looking at the possibility of him being arrested... It would be the best day of my life if that happened... In the end of the day he allowed people to get away with the rape of children.. Covered their tracks.. Then placed them back to work... This church is filth from the top to the bottom... Yet the "faithful" who sit in these churches and have picture up of him all over their house will in no doubt be turning a blind eye or bury their heads in the sand.......
I dont think there should be a safe place on earth for any pedophile.. Not even behind the marble palaces of the vatican bought and paid for with the blood, sweat and INNOCENCE of children... Time to storm the gates I think...

They are beyond evil.... Christ does not live in the Vatican.. Satan seems to though..

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by internos

 

In the UK lawyers are looking at the possibility of him being arrested...

Sorry, but i wasnt sure i believed this statement, then did a search and found this news.yahoo.com...

Although Benedict has not been accused of any crime, senior British lawyers are now examining whether the pope should have immunity as a head of state and whether he could be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction for an alleged systematic cover-up of sexual abuses by priests.

Whilst i find it encouraging (for want of a better word) that admisions of guilt are forthcoming, i do believe that every lead should be followed and everyone responsible through actions/knowledge or complicity should be brought to justice, questioned in a public forum (eg court) and not be allowed to get away with it.

I hope that calls for the Pope to be arrested or officially questioned increase and are made more public.

So now we're "gossiping?"

For the sake of manner and decorum I won't say what I want done to every guilty priest in the rc church.

What I will say however is to the U.K. lawyers for wanting to look at every possible avenue to try and prosecute any and all individuals involved in this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't INTERPOL get involved with this since the church is a worldwide organization? Also, maybe these lawyers should start networking with other lawyers around the world. Do you know what a conspirancy is? When 2 or more people conspire, plot, or plan actions against another person. The rc church has been conspiring against the human race since day 1 IMO. It's time to turn the table. Give them a taste of their own medicine.How do you kill an octopus that stretches around the world? With a bigger one.

Let's also get some high-profile, extremely rich people involved with this to keep this message out in the public eye.

Someone brought up the fact that is pope is a head of state. I'm assuming that's because vatican city is it's own soveriegn nation? Be that at it may, this sovereign nation also happens to be a religious organization. It HAS to be dealt with differently, if for no other reason than definition.

Families all around the world have sons. If you have a son or sons, it could be happening to you. Don't go to a rc church? Are you involved in any rc sponsered programs at all? It could be happening to you. It could be happening to friends of yours.

We all need to band together on this people. Let the lawyers sort out the legal quagmire that this is sure to become, while we the people get out the moral yardstick and start putting the right people in check.



Peace