Is theft ever justified?

You are a data processor in an office building. The company you work for provides a refreshment station that has adequate coffee makers, tea bags, hot chocolate, packets of sweetener, a sink, paper towels, etc.

You, being a dedicated employee, always work through your break to stay ahead of the work load. Most everyone else in the office will, throughout the day, stop work to grab a cup of coffee and catch up on office politics with others.

Since everyone else takes advantage of the refreshments while at work, and since you don't, you wonder if it would be okay for you, each day, to toss a few tea bags, and packs of sweetener, into your bag to use later at home. You decide since everyone else gets to enjoy these perks at work, and you don't, you are entitled to enjoy them at home.

Would you consider this to be theft from the company - why or why not.

He Nomore.

I think your example is theft. The Tea and coffee is for work only. You get paid to buy coffee and tea to drink outside of work.

I do not consider all stealing to be a criminal act. Only stealing because of a criminal act I think to be OK.

no I dont consider this theft, tell you why, if you drink a few cups of coffee at work that coffee is in your stomach right so if you leave work you are taking the coffee with you (in your stomach), if you slip some coffee into your bag and leave work its the same thing, to me whats the difference, coffee in bag, coffee in stomach

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I agree - but there are alot of people out there that honestly believe that they would be justified in taking a few packs here and a few packs there - due to "entitlement".

This was a topic I saw a few years ago on a forum and sadly, most of the people that responded said that they saw nothing wrong with taking things.

Thank you for your input - I just wondered if people on ATS felt any different and thought I'd toss it out there to find out.

Originally posted by restless genius
no I dont consider this theft, tell you why, if you drink a few cups of coffee at work that coffee is in your stomach right so if you leave work you are taking the coffee with you (in your stomach), if you slip some coffee into your bag and leave work its the same thing, to me whats the difference, coffee in bag, coffee in stomach

I knew there would be one come along eventually.



Consider though that condiments provided by your workplace are for workplace use - not for your home use.

If it wasn't theft, don't you think the employer would post a sign over the refreshments saying "Free"?

I.e. Your employer pays for those things - for your time while at his/her office.

My two cents anyhow.

What you are actually addressing here is "situation ethics". When it is justifiable/ethical to act in a way which may be illegal or socially unacceptable.

For example after a catastropic event, is it okay to take bottled water from a store to save you life and the lives of others? Of course.

Is it okay to pilfer tea bags from your employer because you don't use them during the week? Absolutely not.

They are there to keep you working and content, and for use while you are in your working environment. Not as a gift to take home, unless otherwise informed.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
What you are actually addressing here is "situation ethics". When it is justifiable/ethical to act in a way which may be illegal or socially unacceptable.

For example after a catastropic event, is it okay to take bottled water from a store to save you life and the lives of others? Of course.

Is it okay to pilfer tea bags from your employer because you don't use them during the week? Absolutely not.

They are there to keep you working and content, and for use while you are in your working environment. Not as a gift to take home, unless otherwise informed.

Totally agree -

And I cringe every major crisis when the media portrays those people as "looters" - not talking about the ones stealing televisions, radios, designer shoes, etc. But the ones who are taking food - which is perishable and will only be there left to ruin - better that someone consume it than it rot.

"Looting" and "survival" are two entirely different things.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


The worker in your example is also plain stupid. A break is not there for you to work in. The break is there because you need time to relax. Preferably even take a little nap. This will get productivity and quality of your work significantly better then without it.

Tell me, what do you consider a theft you feel that is righteous ?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

The worker in your example is also plain stupid. A break is not there for you to work in. The break is there because you need time to relax. Preferably even take a little nap. This will get productivity and quality of your work significantly better then without it.

Tell me, what do you consider a theft you feel that is righteous ?

lol I know - take your breaks, people !!

The only "justified" theft, in my opinion, would be for the purpose of survival I think. Or to save a life - maybe if you know a child has been kidnapped, and you spot that child in a car parked at a convenience store - with the suspect inside the store getting beer or something - The idiot suspect leaves the keys in the car - you jump inside of the car and drive away to get the child to safety.

Auto theft JUSTIFIED.
The gavel comes down.



[edit on 4-4-2010 by nomorecruelty]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


you are right I was just having a laugh, I used to work in a bakers and at lunchtime the boss said we could eat whatever we wanted we were supposed to pay half of whatever the price was for customers but he told us not to bother, also at home time we could take whatever we wanted and he told us not to pay for it, so we did, the downside is I cannot stand the look of jam donuts or sausage rolls anymore, but looking back technically it was theft I suppose even though the boss said we could do it

reply to post by restless genius


I have to disagree. It was a gift.
True you probably ate his grandchilds college education.

But you boss was either a very nice person or he knew exactly how to keep his workers happy. Or maybe even both.

Originally posted by restless genius
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

you are right I was just having a laugh, I used to work in a bakers and at lunchtime the boss said we could eat whatever we wanted we were supposed to pay half of whatever the price was for customers but he told us not to bother, also at home time we could take whatever we wanted and he told us not to pay for it, so we did, the downside is I cannot stand the look of jam donuts or sausage rolls anymore, but looking back technically it was theft I suppose even though the boss said we could do it

Well, if your boss owned the company, and funded all expenses, and told you that yall could have what you wanted, I would say 'no' it wouldn't be theft.

But if it was owned by someone else - who was paying the bills - then yes, I think it would be theft.

I love, love, love sausage rolls.

Friend of mine emailed me a few weeks ago asking if I knew how to make a sausage roll - which I do.
So I spent a few minutes writing out my recipe, and emailed it back to her.

Her response?

"No, silly - you just push it down a hill".

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Ha - you are probably right about it being the grandchild's college ed money.

I love grandpas. I miss mine.

But I still love, love, love sausage rolls.

This makes me think right away of another example , like our U.S. government thinks it is just fine to steal from us with the new HCB passed. And they also think that cap and trade is fine too.
they feel like anything goes now. let the thievery and fleecing begin like never before!
Them setting this example is going to help create a fine new generation of people even much worse than now

In your example I see that as wrong to take tea and such home, since the want people working to get the benefit of those things to improve their workday.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Yes something like that would be OK.
I like to see it even more open for possibility.

Out here in the Netherlands in the city I live in, it's common that we all ride bicycles. Our train station was loaded with bikes. Some of them got stolen others simply vanish. So now there are loan bikes free of charge.
You have to be a member of some sort . The idea is that you get a bike from a parking place and drive to the nearest destination you need to be like work. But when you are working someone else who is also a member can take it. I don't know if it's a success but I have seen people use it so.

Edit
I wouldn't get in a car with a kidnapped kid in it tho before you know it you are under arrest and charged with kidnapping these days.

I would get the keys and if possible round up some people to hold down the guy and call the police. If we can't hold him. I'll let him leave. If I hit him on the hit they would probably charge me with assault.

It's a sick world we live in. But the kid isn't going with him.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by antideceit
This makes me think right away of another example , like our U.S. government thinks it is just fine to steal from us with the new HCB passed. And they also think that cap and trade is fine too.
they feel like anything goes now. let the thievery and fleecing begin like never before!
Them setting this example is going to help create a fine new generation of people even much worse than now

In your example I see that as wrong to take tea and such home, since the want people working to get the benefit of those things to improve their workday.

Okay, the HC issue brings up yet another example.........

Is it ever okay to stea...... eh, take bandaids and meds from the office first aid kit - for your kids at home to use?

Is it ever justified? Yes.

Just how violence can be justified.
Or lying.

I work in a food place, and the example you given has occurred in our work force. What normally happens is if someone goes on break they are allowed to eat a meal, but you can ASK a manager if you can save the employee meal to take home.

Since taking the items home would be out of norm, it makes sense to ask those who supply it if you wish to do otherwise with it.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I LIKE that bicycle idea......... people can be creative when it comes to resources, when they just want to.

That idea should catch on here in the states -

When I was in the first grade, we rode our bikes to school and parked them in the bike rack out front - went out to leave one day and it was gone. I remember my parents driving me around the neighborhood to see if we could spot it.
Never did - but I've never forgotten that bike. Metallic red with a white banana seat.

Sigh.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I'm fortunate enough to have mine still breathing.
But it isn't going to last for a long time any more

If it was not for my mother and a little bit from me. They would have lived in an old peoples home. I love them tho and I'm glad to do anything for them.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Boss did not own company, its a big bakery chain so he didnt pay the bills etc.... but im gonna look at it as a gift from the boss for all my hard work even though the boss was a thief