Obama's 17-minute, 2,500-word response to woman's claim of being 'over-taxed'

The Trolls need to stop calling other people Trolls and everyone needs to get back On Topic

Warnings are next

Thank you

Semper

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hi partner, if you are sincere in your interpretation, and not picking a fight, I can respect your position, perhaps you are one who will/has benefited from Obama's policies.

If you feel this lady's question was answered as best it deserved because it was a baiting tactic, and not really a question at all, you are certainly welcome to your interpretation. My interpretation however, differs. I do indeed believe we are over taxed. I do not partake in the act, however, I do believe the fact that there is a tax on tanning facilities is proof of government over reach. Further, we just barely dodged a 'sin' tax on sodas, thanks to $millions$ of dollars gracing the hands of a slick/slimy lobbyist. Also, are there any smokers in the house? Have you seen an increase in a particular tax? Further, I am extremely leery of the possibility of the black box in personal vehicles proposal that is on the table. This would open up all kinds of doors for taxing mileage, mpgs etc.

However, for discussion's sake, let's say this lady was indeed baiting the POTUS, I see the possibility there. Let's move to the point of the folkes mingling out of the room. I have always believed if you don't like what's on t.v, instead of complaining to the network nanny, you should change the channel, or simply pull the plug. I believe in stead of making a spectacle of themselves, these people let their actions speak louder than President Obama's words.

It's all about perception, and I am content to agree to disagree.










[edit on 4-4-2010 by LiteralLimbaugh]

you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. on ats of all places. i didnt read the whole thread but i read most of page one and page 4 here, and im surprised no one seems to be asking wheres the rest? it says 17 minute speech, but i only see a 6 minute video that seems either edited or incomplete. wheres the other 9 minutes? and why is everyone bashing or supporting things that dont even have anything to do with the topic at hand. the said 17 minute speech that you are all criticizing based on a 17 minute excerpt. this is the internet age, someone recorded the 6 minutes, where is the rest? i see people taking pictures and a professional photographer, and whoever captured this piece, thedrudgereport? going by the youtube account. you all should only be asking one question which is wheres the rest, how can you formulate an opinion going off of what someone wrote in an article on the washington post? with proof in the form of a 6 minute video about a 17 minute speech? maybe im just crazy, but i reserve forming an opinion till i can see/or even hear the rest of what he was saying. maybe the other 9 minutes explained why we are or should be paying higher taxes perfectly well.

upon reading the whole thread it would seem this entire thing was a troll in the fist place by plumsauce or whatever his name is. and then someone threw in some buzz words like healthcare and birth certificate and spin, next thing you know the whole issues been clouded. everyone except like 3 people were just taking the bait and flaming each other. and the 3 saturnfx, mr-lizard and theoneelectric either were there or saw/heard the whole speech. theyre the only ones in here actually talking about the speech. so guys how bout a link plz? or something.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by abcddcba]

reply to post by abcddcba

with proof in the form of a 6 minute video about a 17 minute speech?

Who cares whether it is 6 or 17 minutes?

Who cares about proof?

The point is the Prez took a whole lot of time to answer a simple serious question about a citizen feeling overtaxed! And he pontificated, he obfuscated, mesmerized and confused!

BTW the article is still up top on Drudge.com, check it out!

reply to post by abcddcba


Hi abc

Excellent point! I should have mentioned the link to which you can view the entire question and answer in question. I hope you have better luck than I did. The content is clear, the direction wavers a bit. But, to play devil's advocate, I guess it isn't an easy question to answer, for multiple reasons...dishonest or not

Full 17 minutes



Plumranch said:

Who cares about proof?

The proof will set you free





[edit on 4-4-2010 by LiteralLimbaugh]

Let me see now are we taxed to much? Did the Great Deceiver give a great 17 minute speech or what using a 2,500 word response to a woman who claimed to be over-taxed? obama wasn't even filibustering oh, I am sorry that is Congresses job in the legislative branch.

Taxes what taxes?

> Accounts Receivable Tax
> Building Permit Tax
> CDL license Tax
> Cigarette Tax
> Corporate Income Tax
> Dog License Tax
> Excise Taxes
> Federal Income Tax
> Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
> Fishing License Tax
> Food License Tax
> Fuel Permit Tax
> Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
> Gross Receipts Tax
> Hunting License Tax
> Inheritance Tax
> Inventory Tax
> IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
> Liquor Tax
> Luxury Taxes
> Marriage License Tax
> Medicare Tax
> Personal Property Tax
> Property Tax
> Real Estate Tax
> Service Charge Tax
> Social Security Tax
> Road Usage Tax
> Recreational Vehicle Tax
> Sales Tax
> School Tax
> State Income Tax
> State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
> Telephone Federal Excise Tax
> Telephone Federal Universal Service FeeTax
> Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
> Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
> Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
> Telephone State and Local Tax
> Telephone Usage Charge Tax
> Utility Taxes
> Vehicle License Registration Tax
> Vehicle Sales Tax
> Watercraft Registration Tax
> Well Permit Tax
> Workers Compensation Tax

Can you add to the list? ^Y^






[edit on 4-4-2010 by amari]

reply to post by amari


That's a list and a half... I don't have any children, maybe I should petition for exempt status on the school taxes....


Well, we may not have to worry about the fishing tax for too much longer.... it would have been funny if it wasn't so sad.

ahh finally found the whole video so you all can have a point to debate and get back to it.
bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by plumranch

Who cares about proof?
BTW the article is still up top on Drudge.com, check it out!

whiskey tango foxtrot do you mean who cares about proof? are you serious?
aside from these

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.politico.com...

the washington post

and this 6 minute video on youtube.

www.youtube.com...

there doesnt seem to be any other sources.

oddly enough the google news links show only one source

www.current-movie-reviews.com...

maybe because they lost a case or something i remember hearing about how they cant use ap newsfeeds in their google news app.

www.charlotteobserver.com...
charlotte observer talks about the visit but not the speech.

took a ton of searching, lol wow who knew finding a second source for a story would be so hard in the age of the internet. everything else except this site seems to be a "retweet" of either the washington post story or the current movie reviews one. somebody is plagerizing someone elses work.

www2.journalnow.com...

this guy seems to have actually been there and is reporting a completely different picture of the events.

"By Richard Craver | Journal Reporter"Another employee said she was concerned about health-care reform if it means higher taxes.

Obama said that element of health-care reform is an area "where there's been just a whole lot of misinformation, and I'm going to have to work hard over the next several months to clean up a lot of the misapprehensions that people have."

Obama said that most of the taxes will be paid by people with "unearned" sources of revenue, such as capital gains and dividends. Those people "should have to pitch in to Medicare just like everybody else, because (they're) going to be using it like everybody else. So it's a concept of fairness."

He said that besides allowing 30 million more Americans access to health insurance with the new law, other changes are eliminating ways that insurers can drop coverage, such as a pre-existing condition, or limit payment through a lifetime limit.

Obama drew applause when he said that health care has to get more efficient in exchanging test results. "What we're trying to say is, we'll pay you for the first test, and then e-mail the test to everybody. Right? Or have all three doctors in the room when the test is being taken," he said.

surely that cant be his real name? dick craver lol gimme a break.

the bold part clearly shows he answered her question according to dick craver anyway, still waiting on that video. but the italics/bold section surely must be out of context. or did he really say that and people really applauded. lowering costs by having all 3 doctors in the room for the tests? seems more efficient to go the email route. must be a misquote.

click the link and read for more facts like

About 250 people protested Obama's appearance, most tied to chapters of the Tea Party in the Carolinas. They were staged less than two miles from the Celgard plant.

Dr. James McGukin, a cardiologist, said he is concerned that some doctors will quit "rather than deal with a socialist health-care system.

click the link

[edit on 5-4-2010 by abcddcba]

Obama campaigned on Corporations ducking taxes with Cayman Island post office box profit laundering.

He has done nothing.

Birkenfeld, a UBS banker came forward to expose 50,000 tax dodging rich people, & the justice department blew him off & put him in prison while the few people they actually charged got away with a small fine ANONYMOUSLY paid.
UBS's list certainly includes Pentagon Generals, Admirals, Federal Judges, Congresspersons, Senators, Corporate CEOs.

Meanwhile Obama goes golfing with the American CEO of UBS,
UBS who has one of its major divisions devoted to helping the rich evade the taxes they owe.


That UBS case busted it for me.
I am SO FREAKING PISSED.

The Justice department is a PERVERSION of justice department.

Washington DC is nothing but a treasonous gang of mobsters all working for one another of the criminal elites.
And they are a global elite that are bankrupting America & destroying this nation so they can live in obscene international luxury.

If YOU ducked taxes the IRS would be ALL OVER YOUR BACKSIDE.
YOU would end up in prison or burdened with fines & interest etc.

Keep in mind the Corporations & the rich profit & freeload off the infrastructure you pay for with you taxes;
Highways, Police, the legal system, & they get whatever they want from congress & the whitehouse and YOU bail them out when they explode the global economy.

You are the taxed slave class that subsidizes the master unproductive PARASITE corporate welfare class.

And Pentagon uniforms are used to intellectually disarm people.
What is wrong with people that they shut down their brains whenever someone talks about 'defense', 'the military' or 'the troops'?

They use that reflex as a mainstream means of looting the treasury & manipulating your civil rights & your nation right out from under you.

The war on terrorism is crap.

You know Marjah in Afghanistan?
That big strategic win & turning point?
Well it isn't a city of 80,000,
it isn't even a town
it is hardly a village,
it is a mosque, a marketplace & a couple of clusters of farmers houses.

It is ANOTHER *Snip* Pentagon LIE.
To funnel more trillions to blackwater [aka Xe, Paravant], Dyncorp, KBR, Halliburton, Bechtel.
With which they hire strippers, hookers, engage in pedophilia, rape of their own employees, use slave labor to build the monster Baghdad embassy.
They smuggle guns, electrocute soldiers with shabby work, house injured vets with rats & mold,
& probably build underground/undersea bases where god only knows what obscene, inhuman atrocities they engage in with complete impunity.

The tea partiers may be angry for virtually all the wrong reasons,

but they are absolutely correct to be 'ready to go ballistic' angry.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 4/5/2010 by semperfortis]

ill transcribe.

saving over time will be from preventive care for everyone to keep them from getting sick lessening the drain on the healthcare system. he uses an analogy of a house with a damaged roof letting rain/water in and heat out. everyone in the house will benefit from fixing the roof rather than the people in the rooms without holes in the roof only having the benefit. as it is now only the wealthier can afford insurance, with this healthcare bill the masses can buy into the govt plan i guess i need to read the bill, and everyone benefits, and if you are too poor the govt will give you tax credits to pay for it. sounds like a win win to me. he then goes on to say this isnt even factored into the actual cost of the bill which is "budget neutral" meaning wont cost anything in additional taxes. hey sounds like he answered the question a little.

he goes on to explain how the bill will be paid for.

"eliminating waste fraud that was being paid out under medicare, that arent making our seniors any healthier."

"medicare advantage gets 18 billion a year to manage a medicare program that about 80% of seniors are getting directly from the govt, and its working just fine, its just a subsidy to them (medicare advantage) that doesnt make anybody healthier so lets eliminate the subsidy. so that how we pay for about half of this thing."

im paraphrasing this part not direct quote, everything direct is in quotes.

everyone getting paid on salary pays into medicare its called FICA, (im sure im not the only one who's ever looked at their check and wondered who the heck is fica.) but if you're somebody like warren buffet and you get most of your money from dividends and capital gains you dont pay into FICA, you're eligible for it like anyone else but you arent taxed for it. because he has whats called unearned income, which is what dividends and capital gains are, he doesnt have to pay FICA. so why should the guy who is cleaning the offices be paying medicare taxes but not the guy who owns the office making money off of it, he can and does use it too like everyone else. so we will tax everything over 250k that you earned. EVERYTHING O V E R 250k will be taxed for FICA. (seems logical to me, why the blarp should rich people be excempt from paying taxes on something they use? :smart people in the audience clapped at this point.: i assume the washington post reporter was one of the ones who didnt clap as her misleading article said the president never answered the question and quoted the woman who asked the question as still being confused as to an answer after the speech was over. (i guess that woman was stupid too or the reporter is lying. )

he apologizes for having such a long answer and said he wants to make sure he's really answering the question and making sure everyone understands. the articles ive read are so misleading, making one think that he was just rambling and caught himself and had to apologize. for shame washington post, for shame.

"congressional budget office says cost savings ive outlined will actually reduce the deficit by 1 trillion dollar" wow and savings to boot.

"medicare and medicaid by far are the biggest things looming on the horizon in terms of what our debt is going to be"

he goes on to explain that this is just a drop in the bucket on the budget,foreign aid, pork(earmarks), account for roughly 3% of the budget. most of the cost is medicare, medicaid, defense and social security, interest on national debt. accounts for about 70% of the budget. "the little things we argue about are not the big stuff, we need to address the big stuff if were gonna get our budget under control."

reply to post by abcddcba


I am not going to debate whether the bill is a positive or a negative, I feel that corpse has been beat enough. I will say I feel there is some blatant dishonesty in this statement :

wont cost anything in additional taxes.

From CNN:

To help fund the $940 billion health care overhaul, a 10% tax on individuals receiving indoor tanning services was tacked on, and the initiative is expected to generate $2.7 billion over ten years.

The 10% tanning tax has replaced the 5% tax on cosmetic surgery that was originally included in the bill. That tax, nicknamed the "Botax," would have included Botox injections and breast implants among other elective surgeries, but was cut out of the bill last year after heavy lobbying from the medical and dermatology industries.

CNN

I openly admit, I do not know much of the content of the HCB, however, I do know that there is a tax on tanning in the bill. I know this because a couple of the salon owners' around here are selling there tanning units, one tanning salon opted not to stay open.

This may seem an insignificant hiccup, however, your wheels should start turning, you should start to wonder what else is deep inside, and to who's benefit?

Think it's ok to tax tanning because it is a risk factor for cancer? Sugar causes diabetes, is that on the docket? Flour, carbs lead to obesity... Cat litter is harmful to pregnant women, will that be called into question? Cosmetics which are contained in walmart grade cosmetics have a suspected link to cancer (tannins), will that come later?

See where I am going? Sometimes they don't walk through the door immediately, they just leave it cracked.

The tanning tax is proof that we have been lied to, regardless how small of a lie some may feel it is, your praise should be guarded.

Like I said, I am cool to agree to disagree.


[edit on 5-4-2010 by LiteralLimbaugh]

Where is the law that says the American People are required to pay income tax? This short video will bring clarity to those that are not so sure about the situation.



By the way, Obama is just a puppet in my opinion... the bankers are the puppet masters whom Obama serves and protects. You will find out why I believe this in this next short clip.



here is some more to back it up... from a CIA Officer named Robert Steele.




You want to hear a rumor about the next phase of taxation? Very short and to the point chip right here:





[edit on 5-4-2010 by WarloriousCreed]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Is income tax the only tax we pay in America?

Well what taxes? Be specific? I hear too many fellas yapping on about things they care not to explain. Its exactly what walking fox stated earlier, its this rhetocal questioning with a motive. Would you care to explain where others prefer just to slip one liners over?

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

reply to post by abcddcba


Unfortunately for you and Obama, the American public thinks Obama's ideas on HC and the HCB in general are unfair. Obama can continue to defend it and you can transcribe it but you're beating a dead horse so to speak.

Most Americans disprove of the HC bill.

Obama's approval ratings are in the gutter, well below 50% and falling every day. (last was 44% and heading toward 30)

If and when Obama comes up with some inspiring ideas to put America back to work, his approval ratings may come out of the gutter. He hasn't, all he is able to do is predict that the jobless rate will continue well into the future! (todays news) Now isn't that inspiring? Just makes everyone want to get out there and get to work doesn't it?

In the mean time, BTW, I've got more new ways for you to pay taxes!

What a great Prez!

Originally posted by LiteralLimbaugh
reply to post by abcddcba

 

I am not going to debate whether the bill is a positive or a negative, I feel that corpse has been beat enough. I will say I feel there is some blatant dishonesty in this statement :

wont cost anything in additional taxes.

From CNN:

To help fund the $940 billion health care overhaul, a 10% tax on individuals receiving indoor tanning services was tacked on, and the initiative is expected to generate $2.7 billion over ten years.

The 10% tanning tax has replaced the 5% tax on cosmetic surgery that was originally included in the bill. That tax, nicknamed the "Botax," would have included Botox injections and breast implants among other elective surgeries, but was cut out of the bill last year after heavy lobbying from the medical and dermatology industries.

CNN

I openly admit, I do not know much of the content of the HCB, however, I do know that there is a tax on tanning in the bill. I know this because a couple of the salon owners' around here are selling there tanning units, one tanning salon opted not to stay open.

This may seem an insignificant hiccup, however, your wheels should start turning, you should start to wonder what else is deep inside, and to who's benefit?

Think it's ok to tax tanning because it is a risk factor for cancer? Sugar causes diabetes, is that on the docket? Flour, carbs lead to obesity... Cat litter is harmful to pregnant women, will that be called into question? Cosmetics which are contained in walmart grade cosmetics have a suspected link to cancer (tannins), will that come later?

See where I am going? Sometimes they don't walk through the door immediately, they just leave it cracked.

The tanning tax is proof that we have been lied to, regardless how small of a lie some may feel it is, your praise should be guarded.

Like I said, I am cool to agree to disagree.


[edit on 5-4-2010 by LiteralLimbaugh]

you quote a tax on people who use tanning salons, why would that cause tanning salons to shut down? this is one of those non sequitors i hear about?

i think if you are deliberately doing something known to cause cancer aka bodily harm in an era where we are all going to be paying into a pool for healthcare to cover everyone then yes you should pay a tax. UV rays lead to skin cancer its a fact. exposing yourself to them on purpose for a darker skintone (with so much racism in this country thats a laughable act) should come at a premium. just like the taxes on smoking, smoking causes cancer a fact, if you continue to smoke then you should have to pay a little extra to cover your end.
you're reaching a little hard with the sugar and diabetes flour, etc but i think you should pay a premium on junk foods and things with tons of sugar in them. junk food is so readily available and cheap where as fresh fruits and vegetables the things that cost the least to produce are so expensive. obesity and diabetes are an epidemic in this country and slowly spreading across the globe with all this manufactured food containing mainly corn and corn based products like high fructose corn syrup. corn is re-engineered and put into everything you eat, even your meat and its killing us slowly. i highly doubt it will come to the nightmare scenario you're trying to paint and im sure you know it wont either. you seem to be aiding in the fear mongering thats ruling this nation. fueled by stories such as this one, and the similar reports i linked in my earlier posts.

this guy up here is back to derailing the topic again instead of talking about the topic at hand stated in the original thread which i posted a link to the WHOLE video of in my last post ^^^

watch the video and then get back on topic people.

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by abcddcba

 

Unfortunately for you and Obama, the American public thinks Obama's ideas on HC and the HCB in general are unfair. Obama can continue to defend it and you can transcribe it but you're beating a dead horse so to speak.

Most Americans disprove of the HC bill.

ever stop to think that maybe the reason so many people dissaprove (i assume thats what you meant to say) of the HC bill is because they havent read it and dont care to understand it and would rather remain misinformed? i mean here is a perfect example, he spends 17 minutes explaining to this misinformed woman than he wont be raising her taxes, and tells her in great detail how the healthcare bill will be paid for and how it will actually save money not cost more. yet the headline is about how looooong he was talking and how many wooooords he used. instead of highlighting the fact that he explained it so well. that part is glossed over and this entire article makes it seem as if he was just talking out the side of his ass and didnt explain anything. which you were all too eager to come and post here and have lengthy discussion about even though you stated yourself you dont know wtf you're talking about. am i lying? its all right here for everyone to read.

reply to post by abcddcba

i mean here is a perfect example, he spends 17 minutes explaining to this misinformed woman than he wont be raising her taxes, and tells her in great detail how the healthcare bill will be paid for and how it will actually save money not cost more. yet the headline is about how looooong he was talking and how many wooooords he used

And what the article did so eloquently is to explain why no one cares HOW Obama comes up with more and more excuses for paying more taxes.

Ie. the public thinks Obama's arguments are BS as do I. It is so easy to pick apart Obama's arguments from an economic perspective but that is another thread.

Bonne nuit mes ami!

reply to post by abcddcba


What about the fact that the statement, that there will be no new taxes is an out and out lie? Are you content with being lied to? Have you gotten used to it over the years? Let me lift you up my brother, you deserve the truth!

Personally, I don't care if it was a 0.01% tax.... the government simply is not entitled to anymore of my money when it comes to a questionably unconstitutional bill.

If it is proven constitutionally sound, great! Hows about you start taxing me in 2014 when the benefits actually kick in? But until then, hands off my stack Jack.

By the way, I once heard a theory... 'When all else fails, yell.... Fear Mongerer' to discredit !!

Ok, seeing as tanning bed usage is taxed, shall we close down the pools? Tax the home owners who own outdoor pools %10 more home owners tax?
%10 more capital gains tax for sales on homes with pools??
Doesn't the sun still cause cancer? Curfew? Not "fear mongering" just seeing the possibilities.....the difference between the two? I don't care if you react to it or not. I don't care if we agree. I am not selling you my interpretation of future possibility, I am exercising my right to express it.

The health care bill will be a non-issue anyway unless the economic state is dealt with. Did you ever think about how little extravagances such as this actually stimulate the economy?


I believe in thinking one step ahead in ALL directions of possibility as not to fall behind. I hope sugar,cosmetics,flour etc are never taxed more than they are now, however, is it a crime to have your thoughts gathered just in case? When did thinking for yourself ahead of time become fear mongering? Brother, I would die for your right to free speech and thought, whether I agree with you or not, so please don't smear mine as scare tactics... I am content to allow you your thought process without associating you with negativity. I hope one day you can do the same. Equality brother, no matter what divides us.



Edit to add:

abcddcba said:

this guy up here is back to derailing the topic again instead of talking about the topic at hand stated in the original thread which i posted a link to the WHOLE video of in my last post ^^^ watch the video and then get back on topic people.

Wasn't this topic about a woman saying we were being over taxed? And the question posed was what new taxes?? Example offered...Just sayin... bout as on topic as it gets...









[edit on 5-4-2010 by LiteralLimbaugh]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Don't be so dense, you ask me where he is adding more taxes? Maybe you should take a look at the health care bill again. There you will find your increased taxes under another guise of the government.

Originally posted by loveguy

Hello,
First off, I like you. You bring alot of good insight...
But you do see how the HCR bill is 2,000 pages long for a reason I can only speculate; It's to keep us lazy folks from reading the entire thing so as to not be onto how they are sticking it to us, in yet one more expanded new form of taxation to further an agenda that IMO is not "American-Dream-friendly."

Do people realize that a simple line in that documant can change the way we all WANT to live. I agree with whether it is 2000 pages or 17 min speech it is all about hiding the real agenda.

The majority (maybe all) of our reps voted on that bill without fully reading it, or having the ability of an Army of staffers to fine tooth comb it as they should. Much of what was in the final bill was bribery that had nothing to do with HC but to gain the final vote.

Someone somewhere will need to pay for that cost, I would like to know who? You could continually tax that top 20% wage earners 50% and they will maybe put a dent into it..... We are talking trillions (15 trillion) here people, and there is not an unlimited number of wage earners to bleed taxes from. At some point cost will become unmanageable.

Since about 50% or better of America's working class pay little or no Fed taxes we start to reduce the number of people who will be paying the bill, or even capable to pay.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by Xtrozero]