The meaning of "home country" to a Luo African man (and why it plays in Obama's Presidency)

I have a little inside information on what a Luo man might think - why? Because my wife is from Kenya, and is of the Luo tribe. I'm anglo American, by the way and my family lives in America.

My wife is definitely NOT of the ATS kind of crowd and doesn't care much if Obama is legal or not so take this as personal experience, without any political bias.

I told my wife of Michelle Obama's statement that Barack went to his home country of Kenya (rough quote; ATS thread and video on the subject HERE). I asked her what that means in her Luo culture and I found her answer so interesting it warranted it's own thread! To a Luo tribe, Kenyan man, the "home country" is the country in which his father was born. She went on to say that our daughter (half Luo, Kenyan, half anglo American) would call her home country Kenya if I (the Dad) had been Kenyan, and not her Mom, even though she was born in the U.S.

Whether Michelle Obama's statement had ulterior motives or was just culturally savvy I won't speculate on but it's safe to say that her recent statement does NOT count in the solid truth column of Pres Obama's illegality as President.



[edit on 3-4-2010 by Thermo Klein]

Wow excellent stuff. You have taught me something interesting here and put to rest the incorrect interpretations by many, that Michelle had a "slip of the tongue". Way to Go!

reply to post by Thermo Klein


No, it can't be. Obama is a follower of a wacky Christian Reverend Wright. No, he is Muslim. No, his mom is a prostitute and doesn't know his father. No, he is Kenyan. No, he is the Antichrist. No, he is a socialist. No, he is a clone of bush. No, he is reptilian. No, he is a corporatist. No, he is highly partisan. No, he is weak and constantly sticks to attempting unfruitful bi-partisanship. No, he is a pawn for the oil industry. No, he is a pawn of the environmentalists. No, he is intentionally destroying the country. No, he is trying to empower the government. No, he is trying to weaken the government. No, he is hated. No, he manipulated with his personal charm. No, he doesn't give his daughters Christmas presents. No, he is a woman-hater. No, he is submissive to women. No, he bows to leaders of other nations. No, he is arrogant to other nations. No, he is expanding the war. No, he is surrendering the war on terror. No, he is using the war on terror to decrease civil liberties. No, he is too easy on terrorist. No, he wants civil trials cause they are too expensive and risky. No, he wants military tribunals cause he doesn't care about the constitution. No, he is a constitutional scholar, not a regular citizen. No, he doesn't care about the constitution. No, he is nationalizing the banks. No, he is handing our money to private banks. No, he doesn't care about jobs. No, he is a socialist for bailing out GM. No, he has use time traveler technology to prepare for and alter the past, present, and future. No, he is an evil cunning manipulator. No, he is a bumbling teleprompter empty suit. No, he is a nazi. No, he is a racist. No, he is coming for our guns. No, he is weak on crime and rated 'F' by gun-control advocates. No, he is a race traitor. No, he is anti-military. No, he is a war mongering pawn of the MIC. No, Michelle Obama is a bumbling liar. No, Michelle was telling the truth. No, Michelle said she hates whitey. No, Obama is a homosexual. No, obama smoke crack. No, Obama is an alcoholic. No, Obama is loved outside of the country. No, Obama is hated outside of the US. No, Obama supporters are delusionally thinking he is the messiah. No, Obama is Israel's pawn. No, Obama is disturbing our special relationship with Israel.

^ Looks like the titles to the next 40 ATS threads

Sadly, all those ideas are actually being told as truth by many. Theoretically speaking, one of em has to be accurate though.

reply to post by skunknuts


No, if he's Muslim and Luo he probably has a few other wives and whole families around the globe!

Seriously though - I'm not trying to make any political statements - just sharing a bit of cultural insight that some people will find valuable.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by Thermo Klein]

It's all about the context and the intent...

I could possibly comprehend this statement if he had been raised by his dad. He was in fact raised by his mom and two grandparents in Hawaii. He was raised here culturally and would refer to his home country as we refer to our home country, I would see no reason for her to claim it as his home country unless he feels it is his home country.

reply to post by ventian


I agree. However there's NO WAY we're ever gonna know how he truly feels about being a foreigner (or outsider), black, raised in America and elsewhere apparently and what that has meant to him. There's a good chance he has felt a camaraderie with his Kenyan roots, whether he is familiar with Luo customs? Who knows.


[edit on 3-4-2010 by Thermo Klein]

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Wouldn't Kenyans normally speak the language of Kenya, which is Swahili. And therefore "home country" would mean what it does in the English language? Star for the effort either way.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by truthquest]

reply to post by truthquest


First, English and Swahili are both the official language of kenya. Swahili is more of a "trade language" and so English gets preference most of the time - Kenya's official documents are printed in English, rather than kiswahili

Second, it's a colloquial turn of phrase.

Third, I've known a fair number of African-Americans who point to a particular African country, or Africa as a whole, and call it their "home country" -even the ones I know for a damn fact were born and grew up next door.

Along the same lines, I know lots of whites who still call Ireland their "home country" - I think people need to stop grasping those straws so hard.

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Unfortunately most americans are only able to understand things one way. This could be said for many other western countries but Americans in general are a pure example of this. Theres this narrow view of the way we understand things, the way we do things and what we believe in. Its amazing how in a country that supposedly promotes individualism and freedom, most folks insist to others on this narrowminded view of this one thing.

Obama is everything opposite to this narrowminded view that has infected most of this country. Because of this is somehow not 'american enough, his 'different' and so forth. This is why you have much of this criticisms towards Obama leak out into his heritage, his religion, his personality and what not.

As for the birther movement? Its just a way for many disgruntled voters to pretend the 2008 elections never happened. It offers little more than a place for them to make excuses about why Obama isnt really president. Are there any truths to the arguments within the movement? Not really once you get down to discussing facts with them.

Don't bother further convincing them of thinking outside the square. They made up their minds since way before Obama even became president. Thats where its set and when you debunk one argument of theirs, they'll just move on to the next.

SG

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Interesting stuff, star for you OP! I think this raises a larger question about understanding and language though when we look at politics and cultures.

Words, especially in the English language, can be easily misinterpreted with regards to intent. The now infamous "new world order" line by President H.W. Bush has exploded into a million different conspiracy theories.

We, as seekers of truth, have to be careful not to jump to conclusions. We can't just twist words into what we want them to be when that was not their intent.

The OP is right about the issue at hand too: we never will know President Obama's true feelings regarding his race and heritage, and even if he tells us, we won't know weather or not it is genuine because he is a politician, worried about his legacy and having the support of the people.

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Interesting stuff, star for you OP! I think this raises a larger question about understanding and language though when we look at politics and cultures.

Words, especially in the English language, can be easily misinterpreted with regards to intent. The now infamous "new world order" line by President H.W. Bush has exploded into a million different conspiracy theories.

We, as seekers of truth, have to be careful not to jump to conclusions. We can't just twist words into what we want them to be when that was not their intent.

The OP is right about the issue at hand too: we never will know President Obama's true feelings regarding his race and heritage, and even if he tells us, we won't know weather or not it is genuine because he is a politician, worried about his legacy and having the support of the people.

You make a beautiful point. Sadly though, people will still point an exclaim "look! He's an African! I told you! Look, his wife said it! Uh huh!"
And I thought the hanging chads in Fla. were bad.....

[edit on 4-4-2010 by spinalremain]

LOL at the lengths people will go to try and justify this imposter. He spent millions to hide his birth certificate and records, he got a scholarship for foreign students, his grand mother said he was born in Kenya, and Michelle is culturally an American, home country means where you were born and she spit it out clear as day. People have been convicted of murder on less evidence.

Now the OP is trying to tell us he is politically unbiased, yeah right LOL!

reply to post by hawkiye


He spent millions to hide his birth certificate? I didn't know that. Do you have any links for that? I'd like to read about that.

(oops bad spelling)

[edit on 4-4-2010 by spinalremain]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by spinalremain]

Originally posted by hawkiye
justify this imposter.

Imposter? Hows he an imposter? Because you dont personally like him, his an imposter? Tell me what evidence you have of Obama not being a citizen of the United states. Come on now, I got tonnes of info here Iv been using over the 2 years Iv been part of this website. Throw them down here!

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
reply to post by ventian

 

I agree. However there's NO WAY we're ever gonna know how he truly feels about being a foreigner (or outsider), black, raised in America and elsewhere apparently and what that has meant to him. There's a good chance he has felt a camaraderie with his Kenyan roots, whether he is familiar with Luo customs? Who knows.


[edit on 3-4-2010 by Thermo Klein]

I see what you say and this may start a flame war but it needs to be said. If he actually attributes anything to his Kenyan roots aside from his sperm donor then he is in fact the dumbest president we have ever seen. Kenya did nothing for him. His speech classes to make him more charismatic came from America. His private school he graduated from came from America. His household income in the 1970's of 240k a year came from America. His degree in law came from America. His books that made him a millionaire were sold in America. The sheeple that put him into office that thought he was one of us and not an elitist were American. His success as a great president regardless of what he does comes from the dumb American that was in that seat before him. I will say it all day, if he attributes anything relating to Kenya as his home country, then he is in fact the biggest idiot to ever hold that office. Bring on the flames people, this post was not partisan at all, I simply stated the facts as I see them.

reply to post by ventian


Yeah but he has Kenyan lineage. If his home country is soley based on his father's then he is just abiding by his family's tradition. It doesn't make him less American. It makes his family different than yours. I would have thought that in 2010 such a miniscule thing would never be frowned upon. It isn't as if the man marches around the dam White House with a Kenyan flag singing their anthem while preaching about the horors of this country. Is essence he is like every other American; his family comes from abroad. Only difference is that he addresses it differently.

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by ventian

 

Yeah but he has Kenyan lineage. If his home country is soley based on his father's then he is just abiding by his family's tradition. It doesn't make him less American. It makes his family different than yours. I would have thought that in 2010 such a miniscule thing would never be frowned upon. It isn't as if the man marches around the dam White House with a Kenyan flag singing their anthem while preaching about the horors of this country. Is essence he is like every other American; his family comes from abroad. Only difference is that he addresses it differently.

I completely understand what you are saying but please understand me as well. His father bailed on him when he was an infant. He didn't hardly spend any time with his father at all and was raised by his American grandparents. For him to believe that Kenya is his home country in any shape or form makes him either a lunatic or an idiot. I don't personally care one way or another where he was born but he owes every single thing he has to America. If Kenya is where he believes his home country is after all that has been given to him because of this country, then he should probably get out of America and head home.

reply to post by ventian


He isn't saying that Kenya is his home though. That's the thing. It is his "home country" ie where his family is from. That is a big difference. And it doesn't matter if his father bailed on him. Having a bad father doesn't mean one should throw away their lineage. He is what he is regardless of what his father did. It's irrelevant.

If Stalin's father molested him, would he cease to be Russian?

[edit on 4-4-2010 by spinalremain]