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Abuse hotline set up by Catholic Church in Germany melts down

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posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Abuse hotline set up by Catholic Church in Germany melts down


www.dai lymail.co.uk

An abuse hotline set up by the Catholic Church in Germany melted down on its first day of operation as more than 4,000 alleged victims of paedophile and violent priests called in to seek counselling and advice.
The numbers were far more than the handful of therapists assigned to deal with them could cope with.
In the end only 162 out of 4,459 callers were given advice before the system was shut down.
Andreas Zimmer, head of the project in the Bishopric of Trier, admitted that he wasn't prepare
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Wow , could the problem of abuse be that widespread within the church ?
The report states that " only " 162 of the 4459 callers were given advice before the system was shut down.

One has to wonder just what kind of advice they were given ? Could this been done to " test the waters " as to what the church might be facing or could it have been done for the stated reasons , " to win back trust in the face of an escalating abuse scandal that threatens the papacy of German-born Pontiff Benedict XVI in Rome. "

I would venture a guess and say this is not the last we will hear on the topic of abuse within the church and one has to wonder just how long the catholic church can withstand these charges .


www.dai lymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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One wonders why anybody would believe in supernaturalism or join a church, in the 21st century, at all.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


I can assure you that God has nothing to do with these people no matter how much they claim to be of God .

I chose to focus on the the people committing these crimes rather than including God into the equation .

The people responsible for these actions and the coverup of such actions should be held responsible and made to answer for there crimes .

Having said that I am not a member of any church but I do have my own belief system in God .



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
One wonders why anybody would believe in supernaturalism or join a church, in the 21st century, at all.


That really has little to nothing to do with this issue. It merely shows your personal opinion of religion in general.

As a member of the Catholic Church it's almost inconceivable that the abuse could be so widespread and pervasive and yet not not have reached crisis proportions well before now.

To be honest I just don't know quite how to respond to this whole issue.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Although the church has admitted that it happened, I'm not sure I really believe that over 4,000 "victims" (I mean true victims) called in on the first day of this hotline from Germany alone. I think there are people out there setting themselves up for when they file their lawsuits against the church in hopes of a payday.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by AidanK
 


I was raised in catholic schools all my life, so I know what being a catholic is like. I agree with that, that it seems unlikely to be so widespread, and the numbers can, perhaps, be a bit misleading.. but it still happened, and amazingly, people within the church chose to cover it up and protect their priests, rather than report it to the authorities and clean house where necessary; and to that end, I am not surprised. The church is a physical institution with real assets and real money, and real things to lose.. they were protecting their gold chalices, public image, and right to dictate to people moral lessons. In reality, they are just fallible people, no different than you or I, who are either pretending to be "holier" than thou, or completely delusional.

Either way, I can't say that I have any sympathy for them.. I think the church should continue to do public services -- like console people, help the poor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc, but they should drop the "we've got a hotline connecting directly to god, and he says don't use condoms" bit. (a long with every other silly rule they have). Maybe they could start by letting priests get married, or have sexual relationships with women (or men of the appropriate age)



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by AidanK
 



To be honest I just don't know quite how to respond to this whole issue.


Well this is the way I see it. The leader of the largest religion in the world has now been rendered inept at convincing the world to realize that God does not want us killing eachother over Him. I am of course referencing the holy war that in ongoing.

Even if you do not consider it a holy war, it is still a war. Don't you think that the Pope, with the ability to call a world press conference, should try to bring some kind of reason to the world? Shouldn't he address the major faiths that all stem from Abraham and make them realize that this is not what God intended?

I submit to you that this whole thing has been planned and is being executed right before our eyes so that the moral obligation to be the voice of reason among all of the violence is not required. We don't expect it as the faithful have no doubt blamed it on satanic forces, the unfaithful sneer because they knew it all along, and those who were never really sure are sure now.

Doesn't the Bible predict a great falling away from the faith in the end times? Could this be something that has been predicted? Or is it something that is being played out like a script? I for one believe it is part of a script so that the wars can be perpetuated while the masses root for the good guy. Whoever that may be.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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This isn't the first time a program started by one group seeking to fix a problem in the Catholic Church has run up against a revelation of deeper evils that then shuts down that program before it can reveal just how deep the # is.

The orphanage/work house records were supposed to open up, and when it became obvious just how many of those requested records were REALLY bad....the program shut down in a jiff.

While the good people may outnumber the bad people in the Catholic Church, the bad people have been shoveling so much evil for so long now it is literally seeping out of the pores. When a good person tries to do right, they are buried in the sheer horror of what is there and the amount of it that the bad people have accomplished. While hiding behind others' good intentions.

I almost feel bad for them. Almost - because nothing this bad goes for this long and this deep without protection from the top.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Do you know how many people ONE pedophile tends to victimize. It can be hundreds, normally.

If Germany has the same problems revealed as Ireland and Canada - which is quite likely - in any given institution there could probably be found at least one operating known pedophile. KNOWN. Not even counting the ones who were hiding it.

Often in these institutions, it was more than one.

That's the males. The females have been brutal, humiliating, and sometimes sexual perverts as well. Particularly if they were in a group that was also being abused by the male clergy and thought it was "normal."

And while we are figuring this out here now - rest assured that this 'type' of person today isn't gone. They may no longer be in the Catholic Church. But they are probably still seeking out the opportunity to look like they are doing good while instead doing bad. There are orphanages being run by charities, employing these "good people" who are doing the same thing still. And worse, it is likely that it is going to come back and bite *us* in the ass because *we* are funding them without oversight or laws to deal with keeping an eye on what they are doing in these areas out of our countries laws.

Anyways - I doubt that this is people setting up a "law suit." If the previous finding hold valid, and they probably do, this problem is endemic.

The idea that the Church has that some things are just contained to one or two areas is a lie they tell to themselves. Like Ireland or Canada are statistical anomalies. Outliers on the graph. They aren't.

[edit on 2010/4/3 by Aeons]



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Yeah you make good points... the number just looks too huge, especially for just one day.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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Me thinks this is an instance of awakening of the "masses" (no pun intended). I caught an interview with Peruvian Catholics in Lima and a woman basically described her lack of trust in the Church. Half a world away from Germany. I guess it's finally time to get up and smell the altar wine.

gj



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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I wonder if mandatory abuse hotlines would spell the end for the catholic church.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Max_TO
 


well, good to know that we have a person here in ATS that knows GOD and jesus christ

we are saved!!

please, church is an organization that sells an idea, it doesnt sells FACTs

about the criminals within the church, I think theres a lot more nowadays than in the past



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 



YEAH YEAH

we have a conspiracy, off course, this is ATS

people around the globe are trying to look like rape victims to get $$ from the church, since being a victm of rape is something nice and not a little humiliating



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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I just can't understand why the church supports covering up this type of thing , rather than exposing and dealing with the perpetrators of abuse .

The Catholic church must know child abuse is wrong and how they can justify covering up these cases of abuse rather than dealing with each case harshly simply boggles the mind .

It is an act of dishonor and a slap in the face of all they claim to believe , assuming they do in fact " believe "



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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At first, when I read this, I was surprised at the number who called, but as I think about it, it starts to make sense. As noted above, a single pedophile can be responsible for abuses to dozens, if not hundreds of victims in their lifetime. Many of these victims then go on to become abusers themselves - it's a behavior that tends to propagate itself into future generations. If a single person abuses a hundred children, one has to wonder what percentage of them go on to become abusers themselves and perhaps join an institution like the church, recognizing the cover it gives to one who wishes to do such things.

If there's an endemic culture of abuse that's been going on for a long time within the church (which is what I think has been happening - I think this goes way, WAY back), then the numbers of victims could easily be huge. With the church suddenly creating this hotline, I think there might have been a pent-up flood just waiting for some sort of aid, acknowledgment, guidance, etc. - people who are still religious and believers, but who are having a crisis over this now that it has become public.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by LifeInDeath
 


Agreed

May I ask your thoughts on the willingness to cover up such actions and what that says about those , who may not have abused , but have actively covered up and in some cases chose to look the other way when abuse was brought to there attention ?

Perhaps I am wrong , but I see two very big issues here . For it is not just the abuse of some which is the issue , but also the covering up by others that in some cases made it possible for the abuse to continue .

Just to add , Last paragraph was not directed at anyone nor am I implying that anyone here on ATS supports covering up such acts of abuse .



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by Max_TO
I just can't understand why the church supports covering up this type of thing , rather than exposing and dealing with the perpetrators of abuse .

The Catholic church must know child abuse is wrong and how they can justify covering up these cases of abuse rather than dealing with each case harshly simply boggles the mind .

It is an act of dishonor and a slap in the face of all they claim to believe , assuming they do in fact " believe "

A thought occured to me today that seemed far fetched but the more I thought about it the more it mads sense. Even though cardinals would have known ratzinger's part in child sex coverups.. they still made him pope. (Was he the best they had?
)

Are the pope and the cardinals/clergy that supported him part of the same child sex ring?

Imo they probably cannot risk sacking him as if they did he would no longer be obliged to protect their arses and he could name names. I personally think they made him pope to make him a head of state with diplomatic immunity.. thats a handy thing to have when someone is trying to take you to court.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by riley]



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Ever read the story of Lot? Remember, he is packaged as a "good man."

He isn't and wasn't good. He was the best of the worst.

There is a big difference between being the best and being the best of the horrible.

The best man in the nation, and the best man in the barrio watching the animal sex show is not exactly a subtle difference. Isn't it interesting how that distinction seems to be not obvious?



We as societies need to take a lesson from what is happening to this Church. We as individuals and nations give lots of money around the world and locally to fund organizations that can exist in areas without much oversight or even laws to protect the weak and the poverty stricken. Most of the people in those organizations are truly good people. But some are not. One day, their victims will look to see who put those people in their path and they will see *us.*

We need laws and regulations that allow us to vigilantly look to make sure that the good works we are trying to do aren't going to become THIS.

Oh, and any of you thinking that what is happening here is isolated to the Catholic Church are lying to yourselves. The difference is that this Church seems to have had this stuff seep up and down along with a certain amount of laisse-faire. The other religions are not immune to this. The other denominations are not immune to this.

They are merely less formally hierarchical.



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