A Question for All "Patriots"

reply to post by kinda kurious


You are making a mistake if you believe that anyone really wants violence. You can be a patriot way outside of your definition. I would say that 99.99% of all and any americans want any problems.

Having said that there are just a lot of folk out there that have no taste for ### kissing to "government" and frankly we dont have to. What? Do government types want an abundance of worship for provinging basic services? Like care takers for the mentally infermed masses of cattle?

If your house is on fire, how much concern do you put into the laundry in the wash, or the DVD in the TV, or the answering machine, or making sure you have enough loaf bread to last to the end of the week...you don't. You put out the fire... because unless you stop the fire, everything else is irrelevent.

If it was 1936, and you had a chance to unseat Hitler, but no plan for infrastructure maintainance...would you do it?

If it was 1955 and you had the chance to unseat Chairman Mao, but no plan for infrastructure maintainance.... would you do it?

If it was 2008, and you had the chance to unseat Kim Jong Il, but no plan for infrastructure maintainance... would you do it?

If it was 2010, and you had a chance to unseat the greatest internal threat to our security and independence and Constitution, and you had no plan for infrastructure maintainance.... would you do it?

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

I cannot justify the implied damages to a functioning society as you state.
Air traffic control of course is needed, but the other departments and agencies I fail to see the daily life support.

A coup...is the sudden unconstitutional deposition of a government, usually by a small group of the existing state establishment—typically the military—to replace the deposed government with another body; either civil or military....Typically, a coup d'état uses the extant government's power to assume political control of the country.

en.wikipedia.org...'état

Since the Federal Government serves as the core governing body for the United States
all ancillary services/bureaus would cease to function during coup. All commerce would likely cease during ensuing state of chaos. (Food supplies, fuel, medical, defense etc.)

The Federal Government was established by the Constitution to provide services to the public. While these services vary considerably, all are designed to improve the lives of the United States population, as well as people around the world.

Goods and services. The Federal Government's essential duties include defending the United States from foreign aggression, representing U.S. interests abroad, creating and enforcing national laws and regulations, and administering domestic programs and agencies. Workers employed by the Federal Government are responsible for enacting and implementing the programs and performing the services that accomplish these goals, playing a vital role in many aspects of daily life.

Industry organization. Each of the 15 executive Cabinet departments administers programs that oversee an aspect of life in the United States.

Defense: Manages the military forces that protect our country and its interests.

Veterans Affairs: Administers programs to aid U.S. veterans and their families, runs the veterans' hospital system, and operates our national cemeteries.

Homeland Security: Works to prevent terrorist attacks within the United States, reduce vulnerability to terrorism, and minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters. It also administers the country's immigration policies and oversees the Coast Guard.

Treasury: Regulates banks and other financial institutions, administers the public debt, prints currency, and collects Federal income taxes.

Justice: Works with State and local governments and other agencies to prevent and control crime and ensure public safety against threats, both domestic and foreign.

Agriculture: Promotes U.S. agriculture domestically and internationally, manages forests, researches new ways to grow crops and conserve natural resources, ensures safe meat and poultry products.

Health and Human Services: Performs health and social science research, assures the safety of drugs and foods other than meat and poultry, and administers Medicare, Medicaid, and numerous other social service programs.

Interior: Manages Federal lands, including the national parks, runs hydroelectric power systems, and promotes conservation of natural resources.

Transportation: Sets national transportation policy, plans and funds the construction of highways and mass transit systems, and regulates railroad, aviation, and maritime operations.

Commerce: Forecasts the weather, charts the oceans, regulates patents and trademarks, conducts the census, compiles economic statistics, and promotes U.S. economic growth by encouraging international trade.

Energy: Coordinates the national use and provision of energy, oversees the production and disposal of nuclear weapons, and plans for future energy needs.

Labor: Enforces laws guaranteeing fair pay, workplace safety, and equal job opportunity, administers unemployment insurance (UI) to State UI agencies, regulates pension funds; and collects and analyzes economic data.

State: Oversees the Nation's embassies and consulates, issues passports, monitors U.S. interests abroad, and represents the United States before international organizations.

Housing and Urban Development: Funds public housing projects, enforces equal housing laws, and insures and finances mortgages.

Education: Monitors and distributes financial aid to schools and students, collects and disseminates data on schools and other education matters, and prohibits discrimination in education.

www.bls.gov...

Unless you think the country would magically continue to function on Auto Pilot without panic while the Government is held hostage. I do not believe that would be the case. I feel you mistakenly minimize the vital role the sub branches of government provide. I invite you to provide proof otherwise.



[edit on 4-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
If your house is on fire, how much concern do you put into the laundry in the wash, or the DVD in the TV, or the answering machine, or making sure you have enough loaf bread to last to the end of the week...you don't. You put out the fire...

Using your scenario. If my house is NOT on fire and I see an arsonist attempting to torch it, I will attempt to prevent that. That is what my OP is about.

If I was unsuccessful, I would see to it the arsonist is arrested and then DEVELOP A PLAN to rebuild my house.

I will avoid your other scenarios which appear to be some sort of ideological rant.


[edit on 4-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


You have to understand kinda kurious, these internet revolutionaries have no plan.

Well, they kinda have a plan, it goes like this...

Step 1. Cause a civil war.

Step 2. ?

Step 3. Freedom.

That is the extent of any of these fool's plans.

reply to post by whatukno


Thanks. I've been getting hammered here but I know what you mean.

Ready......shoot......aim.

Well since I did not get a reply I am led to think you did not want a conversation...

The violent means you describe and say you abhor are legitimate means of change...

Also as you pointed out in a very round about way (you never said it) the use of violence usually leads to a quick overthrow later with the same means...

As for your concerns of social disorder. It would be good for all concerned....

A slow gradual change is next to impossible because the forces arrayed against you will come to destroy all that is hoped to be accomplished. They will grasp for power in attempt to dominate their fellow man.

I can site multiple historical examples on the abuse of power... I hope good sir you are right and the better angels of our nature prevail. In the meantime I am betting on the demons of our nature. If the SHTF I intend to seize the power asap. In my local area. Ido not like what will have to be done but if I have to choose between my children, my loved ones, and my allies vs everyone elses little BS guess what wins....

To maintain the town....
Food, water, defense

Medicine, Training, Arbitrator, Travel ways, Electricity

Commerce and few other things are out on the fringes but a necessity


In the process of securing this town three others must be secured... You expand from there.. As you train more troops....

Major issues

Thieves can be broken then put together into a team under a few vets

Drug Dealers same process for moving to new areas...

I see maybe at first a twenty percent change rate... My main issue is I will have to throw a few out of the game to get things done...

What I expect...

North is Dallas and south is Galveston... We have to be prepared for raiding parties and refugees.... The only way to protect everyone is to insist they are all armed... Roadblocks with a standing army....Mine that is.. You cant rely on others to protect your interest...

For a local area at least poke as many holes as you feel like in it...

I guess now it is time to go after those that disagree with the OP.

reply to post by zamo1993

When the revolution is over the goverment officials will be replaced (by vote) with people that are more wellsuited to lead.

This is a perfect example of what to do in order to change nothing of actual value. You can dress the intestinal worm up and put makeup on it, but it is still a parasite.

As said before me, most of the organizations you mentioned could be disposed of or reformed over time. Everything doesn't have to happen immediately.

What about all of the organizations? How are some useful while others not? Don't they all derive their power from theft and violence?

Saying that the government is special and should take care of X and Y but not Z because it is only unfit to run Z is being disingenuous.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

In fact I'd subscribe to the theory that their budgets consume far more than they contribute.

Governments don't contribute anything. They merely give back a portion of the stolen property as a bribe for your devotion. The only thing a government provides, in and of itself, is a morally and intellectual bankrupt system of violence hell bent on sustaining itself through any means necessary.

The money you earn is not yours, you are simply allowed to use it because some smart feudal Lord figured out that free-range humans produce better product than contained humans. Freedom, when government is involved, is only superficial and petty.

You don't even own your own body but as long as they can convince you otherwise, you continue serving your masters.

I dont see the value in maintaining a belief in a system(s) that have been poor producers simply for the sake of status quo or and intimidating task of overhaul.

I think this is the heart of the issue I have with people wanting less government. They are too dense to realize that their own arguments against state control of some things are only valid if they advocate against state control for all things. There is no such thing as a 'small' government. Thats like calling a rapist 'a little bit rapist'. That's like just getting a little bit of AIDS or being a slightly dead. When it comes down to it, 'small government' conservatives sound like a Monty Python sketch.

reply to post by Logarock

You are making a mistake if you believe that anyone really wants violence. You can be a patriot way outside of your definition. I would say that 99.99% of all and any americans want any problems.

Violence is the very thing a government is. You may not think you advocate violence, but anyone who advocates the state in any form advocates violence. You advocate violence against me, and this needs to be addressed in society.

reply to post by whatukno

You have to understand kinda kurious, these internet revolutionaries have no plan.

I guess I cannot take personal offense to this as I am a strong advocate for nonviolence and that the government itself is working toward self destruction.

This being said, I have provided a 'plan' of sorts multiple times in multiple threads.

But I guess since I don't fall in the left/right paradigm I will continue to speak in vane.

reply to post by ripcontrol


There are some things you fools don't understand.

Nuclear power plants.

These must be maintained or they melt down. If you overthrow the government. Chances are damn good that foreign interests will swoop in to capture technicians, workers, and scientists for their own nuclear programs. Those that will be left, won't work for free, and if those plants do not get the maintenance they require, this could happen.

Next, water, water treatment, and sewage.

How long after your overthrow of the government will the nations water treatment plants and sewers start to break down? Unless you are planing on becoming a communistic society, no one will work for free.

Money.

Now that you have overthrown the government, what money are you going to print? Obviously you would remove the FED, but who is going to take your currency? What is it going to be backed by? Where do you get the collateral to back your currency? Or is it going to be a barter system?

Other problems with your plan... Well, your lack of plan.

Roads.
Schools.
Hospitals.
Invading foreign forces.
The substantial Nuclear Arsenal.
oil production.
Basic commerce.
Law Enforcement.
Food production.


y'all don't have a freaking clue what you want, how to run anything, what to do. Sure maybe you can keep order in your little block for a couple of days. Till food starts to run out.

Originally posted by ripcontrol.
The violent means you describe and say you abhor are legitimate means of change...

Legitimate perhaps in an uncivilized, barbaric society. The balance of your thread comes off as a disjointed rambling tirade of a maniacal lunatic.

I do not like what will have to be done but if I have to choose between my children, my loved ones, and my allies vs everyone elses little BS guess what wins....

They will probably be better off, hope you have life insurance.

... Roadblocks with a standing army....Mine that is.. You cant rely on others to protect your interest...

Sounds like the plan of a rogue outlaw thug. A roadblock? What is the "secret phrase." More like a speed bump.

If you have ANYTHING to do with this proposed coup, things are more grave than I realized. Please take your meds, dude.

reply to post by DINSTAAR

I guess I cannot take personal offense to this as I am a strong advocate for nonviolence and that the government itself is working toward self destruction.

Yes, nonviolent solutions work far better than the scorched earth policy that internet revolutionaries value. I agree with you about that sort of plan and I personally would prefer it to any "kill em all and let god sort em out!" plan

"Let us take a patriot, where we can meet him; and, that we may not flatter ourselves by false appearances, distinguish those marks which are certain, from those which may deceive; for a man may have the external appearance of a patriot, without the constituent qualities; as false coins have often lustre, though they want weight."

- Samuel Johnson

I AM CROSS POSTING THIS FROM ANOTHER THREAD:

For anyone, like myself, who has been seeking to understand and learn more about this growing and increasingly violent subculture who falsely assume their DIVINE PROVIDENCE, I humbly submit the following expose written by Paul de Armond found as the result of my research.

This brief essay offers keen insight into the minds and motivations of this radical and maligned mob who are becoming more and more vocal barking out veiled threats of violence and government overthrow.

Here are a few key excerpts:

The formation of armed vigilante groups called "unorganized militias" was first viewed in the media as the ranting of a bunch of gun-nuts and crack pots. A year after the Oklahoma City bombing, the nation is still uninformed about what Christian Patriotism is and where it is leading people.

Baldly stated, the white supremacist movement seeks to undermine federal authority and bring about the collapse of the United States of America. The destruction of federal power is the prerequisite to establishing a new racial nationalist state. It is highly unlikely that such a thing is within the means of the small number of militant racists, but it is certain that they will continue to use all means at their disposal to pursue that unrealistic goal.

In its most concise form, the myth of the organic Constitution can be summarized as follows: The Constitution is a divinely inspired document in which human agency is secondary to God's will. Only the original Constitution and Bill of Rights as signed by the Founders is the supreme Law of the Land and this law should be interpreted in the light of Biblical understanding. All later amendments, laws and regulations are "unconstitutional" in the sense that they "create a federal constitution in opposition to the original."

Source of above: www.publicgood.org...

Please take a moment to review this compelling examination in order to fully comprehend their nefarious agenda. Do not be fooled by their faux patriotism, their agenda is as sinister as any "evil" government empire they seek to destroy. They pose a serious threat to peaceful lovers of freedom by seeking to impose their will and interpretation of religious entitlement.

Watch out for The God Squad, IMO, they don't want to defend democracy, they want to destroy it.

I encourage you to find more great info here: www.publicgood.org...



“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.”
- Oscar Wilde

Regards...kk


[edit on 4-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by whatukno


This whole post is not at you...

I said at the local level.... On the national level it is a different game...

The maintenance of existing structures are a necessity... If I understand correctly even in these administrations this has not been a high priority..

A good example

I seem to have heard differently some of the words used. I reread your post and starred it. Because I had truly forgotten in the heat of conversation the NP plants.

I am not referring in my post to me leading or being a part of overthrowing the US. I am referring to the response of what is taking place in what yall where saying. I

I realise what is at stake... I will address this in a little bit..

____________________________

At the comment that I am a thug... Do not attempt disinformation tactics.. Although it was a beautiful try..

At another point on this board I had enough respect to take a step back and fix a post that wronged you by bad vocabulary choices... I expect the same level or respect in your responses. Do not attempt the tactic of demeaning the poster instead of focusing on the issue.. Try again..



In the interest of staying on thread...

I am backing up and looking at my assumption made and I have found one...

I went down a branch of thought over the very worst case scenarios for survival. This was instead of focusing on original post...

I will out of respect for the site not tell you my opinion of you you at this point merely back it up a step.

You have generalization and we need to clarify. What is the situation?

You have claimed that no one here has solid plans. I have scenarios and actions I will take. I am pursuing my plan now based on what I see.

Please establish a scenario of where things are at then I can give you what the plan is..

Example-
Yes it is a very thuggish way I am considering. The thought was for operating as part of the larger command and control of the government.For security reason, I surprise you do not approve, is why checkpoints would be established. Until a general level of peace exist.

Is marshal law in place?

I have to insure food and water to over about 5000 people, but I digress.

For worst case, I wake up to it tomorrow, and all my long term options have been limited due to the stupidity that does exist. In fact you have referred to it. You know where you complained they do have any clue what it takes to run a government comments.

Now should time be given say five years down the road. I have a lot more options available.

Does this make sense to you?

Now I ask you to define the scenario further. I need the time marks, so it can be outlined.

Now to a national level instead of a local level. I need the time marks as well. What most of what you been saying but not verbalizing is that they have no influence at all. Time is the most important factors in my long range plans..

An overnight revolution would not necessarily be a bad thing but then you will have a nightmare like Russia became. I am a decent guy but not everyone who would be doing this would even care about half of What I do.

And do not think I want to rule garbage. I would find the most competent people I could and shove the real work on them..

Yes these statements are made insanely but I have my reasons.

can you please outline the scenario so I can answer your question?

Just in case I want to know
Is it a bloody revolution ?
Political?
A year from now?
Been going on for years?

I need the basic beginning point so I can go off of where I am at.

Thank you

BTW, I have no interest in being part of any coup. Please also outline this coup are referring to. Once again generalizations.

I reread your post and tip my hat to you. It does appear your are a well practice disinformation specialist.

Are you Gay? It just seems your a little out of place here for some reason and I cant place why. Its either that or your trying to feel people out for some reason I am calling you out.

Either outline the scenario your referring to so a proper response can be given or I am assuming you have ulterior motives for your post.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by ripcontrol]

[edit on 5-4-2010 by ripcontrol]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Once again I patiently wait your outline.

You make a lot of assumption on my character in your earlier post. Yet if we are to get personal mr.Troll I will.

If you want to pretend to be not what you are go ahead. I have seen nothing but bashing from you on various others hear on this topic.

You are trying it seems to lead away from the main source of what it is. Do you have a point wiht this bashing good sir. I see no helping hand offered. I see no Well wait a second. These are my fellow americans, why would they feel this way.

I seriously get the feeling your represent more then you say and trust you not. I will however engage you.

Talk to me directly about the issue I asked over and no side comments about individual character or traits I supposedly have.

I will wait for the scenario...

As much as you bark you are pulling for keys words that can be used to convict an individual.

You want for the national level. You have just touched on what the general public knows and seem to have skated the full truth. You forgot the other reason their will be no successful revolution that you seem to want...

Lets start with the Retired Vets...

Lets talk about the special forces..

The CIA, NSA, and FBI agent active and retired...

Then you have the criminal element

Then you have the business elements...

Then you have the religous elements..

My understanding of history is that its been a mexican standoff for years between the faction vying for control...

reply to post by kinda kurious


I don't really think that the "patriot" movement is about overthrowing the government.. I think the MSM likes to paint that picture, not really because it helps their side.. it's just a good story that sells to the ignorant masses..

Most people are just a little fed up with both political parties completely ignoring the American system for the better part of 100 years. I think the everyday American people are just tired of the divide in Washington that is driving us, rather quickly, into the dirt.

Now I have gone back again and attempted to get to know you better.

I do see your point on frustration with those that are posing. As I told what I hope is a future business associate all I have trade on is my word. My honor is followed shortly behind it.

Take this for what you will...

Barring TSTF, here is my general course of action.

I am securing my short term needs with income of a sort.

I am vet and this is the process I am using for that securing.

Now to the long term locally.

I have seen a lot of issues in the town I am in. I believe whole heartiedly that could be solved if their were a lot more economic opportunities. I have my board together.

(BTW way I am low on shoestrings and bailing wire now)

My next phase is I am collecting investment funds. I want my main company to be a hold company. Providing capital and leadership to our investments.

Once I have a bare minimum, I will begin to secure the value of the company so I can keep at least two out of the ten small businesses I see hope in creating going.

At the state level I will not reach influence for at least ten years minimum.

This is barring the research company a friend wants to start. (You think my post are insane listen to him. The reason why we will invest in it is because he has spent years inschool and real world on research. He has no people skill but do not get him stated on physics. I get lost in five minutes)

A national level influence will be twenty years...

On of the sub projects is a non-profit geared to helping anyone with anything. I know it is broad based but the idea is to bring the focus in on operations or projects, such as funding the nurses with various things.. (dont ask me for better details it is a good project from one of the board members.)

I seem to have realized while reading your more frustrated at the apparent lack of doing something other then whining from those you seem to disregard. All I can say is that in some instances you are right..

I do know it takes a lot to run a business successfully. A government even more.

Here the problem as I see it.

They are upset over not being heard. A lot of them are upset over this. I am more afraid of someone attempting to hijack that feeling and use it for their own ends then I am upset about them doing nothing.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

I guess I cannot take personal offense to this as I am a strong advocate for nonviolence and that the government itself is working toward self destruction.

Yes, nonviolent solutions work far better than the scorched earth policy that internet revolutionaries value. I agree with you about that sort of plan and I personally would prefer it to any "kill em all and let god sort em out!" plan

Yes you are right there is no plan really for any sort of realistic overthrow of an armed nature. But you can be voted out of office. "Patriots" can beat you at your oun game there boot licker.

What you have done here is just classic trolling....setting up an entire straw man based on a very slim amount that think they want an overthrow.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

Other problems with your plan... Well, your lack of plan.

Roads.
Schools.
Hospitals.
Invading foreign forces.
The substantial Nuclear Arsenal.
oil production.
Basic commerce.
Law Enforcement.
Food production.


y'all don't have a freaking clue what you want, how to run anything, what to do. Sure maybe you can keep order in your little block for a couple of days. Till food starts to run out.

People are really not that stupid. The small number of folks that are could hardly get the town drunk to join them.

But really for the best example of a group that actually beat its head against the wall check out the Weathermen. While not "patriots" in a classical american way, they fill your bill. They were the ones blowing up banks, attacking police, the pentagon ect ect. A real "grass" roots movement. They didnt have bibles but they had their version of the Turner papers.



[edit on 5-4-2010 by Logarock]

reply to post by kinda kurious

What it means is the the nonviolent coup de tat Obama and the progressives are instigating to take control of this country right now gives Congress the authority to remove them. Any questions?