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posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by 3DPrisoner
 


I wouln't expect a reply from Admnins or Owners on the issue of an avatar friend.

Send a U2U to a mod, they have time to take care of things like this. Skeptic is running a business here.

He does also have the right to tell us to post however he feels really. It's their place, their rules we are just here to enjoy the ride.

Yes it's member driven content and I do somewhat understand what you are saying. It's a butt load better than any other Alternative thinking website.

~Keeper




posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


To be honest....


When I first joined. I would read massive posts. Now...

It's one or two liners of quality opinions. Well aimed but not much of contents!

I agree with that. I remember people used to be passionate about their responses and explaining their point in depth. Sometimes a two liner will suffice but it seems that the passion for people's posts has dropped considerably. I agree that there is a drop in deeply involving new material. Slayer is a good contributor and I understand where he is coming from. I have also noticed countless re-posting of older material. Basically we on ATS have collectively been beating dead horses for the last couple of months. To the comment about ridicule. ATS is a "fringe" website, no one should be overly ridiculed about their claims. Sure, you're gonna have trolls and complete BS here but our job as ATS members is to think outside the box and separate the gems from the crap. That's what denying ignorance is all about. There are going to be some heated debates because people feel some emotion and passion about the material they're talking about. When we allow the debate to become caustic that causes problems and hard feelings. If people notice anyone being outlandish they should call them on it in a civilized manner. The Mods and Admins can't babysit all of us and read every single post there is. There are just too many posts. Yes I feel that they do a good job but they shouldn't have to step in and say that we're rehashing old stuff or getting a bit nasty with one another. ATS is 100% user driven content so we have to take it upon ourselves to generate more traffic. Don't be afraid to tell your friends and family about ATS. In all actuality MOST people have interest in so called "fringe topics" They may not admit it openly but a the end of the day they will be checking out ATS to see what it's all about. On another note, traffic in some of the boards has dropped and there is a lot of emphasis on politics right now. In my opinion we are in a time of political upheaval both in the US and worldwide. In the US people think that the Federal Government is becoming too powerful. Worldwide there are political issues as well and they are dominating everything else at this point in time. If you look at the MSM and even alternative media the biggest emphasis is on politics. We as responsible ATS members need to buckle down, do some new research and put out some of the excellence that ATS has been known for. There are a lot of things happening out there but people just blow it off. The Aussie UFO is one of them. Right away people chose to dismiss it because it was a crappy cell phone pic. 99.99% of the time we're only going to get cruddy pics of UFO's because no one says "there's gonna be a UFO here I need to break out the high speed SLR camera for this" People usually just go "HOLY S***!" and snap a quick pic. I think we may have hit a time of increased ignorance but we as ATS members need to combat that ignorance and if someone is being overly ignorant on a topic, ignore them and continue to present your case. Sorry for the long post, I'll stop now.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I've made 9 requests for help already. You might not expect their help but I do.

So are you saying that the Admins and Owners are too important for us regular members now? It would appear so. It must be nice to suddenly find oneself in such a position.

Oh, and it might just be their right to tell us to salute a swastika being that they own the site and all. Just don't expect a lot of members here to be pleased with such a suggestion. Hence my point about the totalitarian demands that seem to be floating around here as of late which could equate to less participation.







[edit on 3-4-2010 by 3DPrisoner]



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by ShAuNmAn-X
 

While I largely agree with what you say, please take a "breath" with your writing and use some paragraphs.
Us "alt-timers" have trouble remembering one long paragraph.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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MikeBoyd...outstanding post. Outstanding. Rotorwings most recent post (regarding the "interest matrix") was also outstanding.



The site has a small number of solid thread starters. Of course, everyone can make something good, but there are a small number of people who make high quality threads. Protoplasmic Traveller and Slayer are good examples, but not the only examples.

Then you have folks like Phage and Kandinsky (lol, the disinfo agents) that don't start good threads, but make for outstanding participation.

The problem is, if the thread starters aren't producing, the participators are left "debunking" silly things that are repeats.

So, where are the great thread starters of yesterday? Where did Mike Singh go? Or Zorgon? It is always nice to acquire new talent....but we keep losing the old talent. We were all devasted by the loss of such a quality contributor and friend as JKrog....but his fate is not the "norm" for where our talented friends have gone. Zorgon is, presumably, still alive somewhere out in Vegas (probably tied up with work or something).

It ebbs and flows. I just hope we don't lose good people who become too disillusioned with the low times.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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As a new member, I can how many real contributors (new or old) would be put off just by the lack of response via thread contributions, and this also by those who start them!


I see many great threads here viewed but seemingly ignored via comments. So, maybe this site has become more like an online newspaper than a 'discussion' forum, sadly?


Just reading threads is fine and benefits many, but encourage more inter-communication on topics.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Velvet1
As a new member, I can how many real contributors (new or old) would be put off just by the lack of response via thread contributions, and this also by those who start them!


I see many great threads here viewed but seemingly ignored via comments. So, maybe this site has become more like an online newspaper than a 'discussion' forum, sadly?


Just reading threads is fine and benefits many, but encourage more inter-communication on topics.








I would just like to add another important reason that seems to be thwarting serious alternative discussion forums all over the net; increasing FEAR of authority/ridicule/consequences.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by 3DPrisoner
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I've made 9 requests for help already. You might not expect their help but I do.

So are you saying that the Admins and Owners are too important for us regular members now? It would appear so. It must be nice to suddenly find oneself in such a position.

Oh, and it might just be their right to tell us to salute a swastika being that they own the site and all. Just don't expect a lot of members here to be pleased with such a suggestion. Hence my point about the totalitarian demands that seem to be floating around here as of late which could equate to less participation.
[edit on 3-4-2010 by 3DPrisoner]


No, I'm just saying they are too busy to deal with one members Avatar problems when there are 10 thousand members + who can help along with a more than a dozen threads on the topic.

Altough I would figure another reason is that they are doing the re-design and all this stuff is changing very soon.

~Keeper



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Velvet1
 


The screams of "disinfo agent!!!111oneone" certainly don't help much, either.

But, then again, there are so many transient members and apparent sock puppets (or MUPs) that it is hard to really tell the difference.

Me? I normally do not interact too much with a poster that doesn't have a reputation that I recognize. I have to "know" you before i take too much seriously.

Strangely enough, i use the avatar as a guide as well. Users without an avatar, to me, are most often representative of this transient group of posters (who sign up, post a bunch of babble and stir up a bunch of crap, then disappear).

I have a gaggle of folks who have added me as "friend" (which i appreciate). But i don't recall ever interacting with at least half of them. I rarely add a "friend", and use it more to highlight specific people for reasons that i care to not share at the moment.

But, like i said, it is obvious that there are sock puppets out there. The political debate tells me all i need to know, as the "internets" are now being ruined by conservative, not liberals, after the overturn in the recent election. I can promise you that ATS has its own share of disinfo agent/sock puppets. That is why i don't usually give much time to new posters, especially when they persist in presenting a specific point of view even in situations where they have to shoe horn it into the conversation.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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First, let me note that I am so very happy to see so many of my favorite members of ATS represented in this thread.

I respect all of your opinions, even if we don't always agree. Moreover, I particularly admire the dedication to rigor and nuance that I have seen time and again in the posts of so many people having their say in this thread.

It takes time and energy to create, read, and respond intelligently to a good post. And seeing you all weighing in here gives me hope, because it makes me think there will continue to be a demand for the complex on-line discourse we all seem to love and that keeps us coming back to ATS.

This thread of SLAYER, combined with my own recent thoughts along similar lines, has inspired me to start up a little "experiment" on the R.A.T.S. section of ATS. It can be found at the following link:

R.A.T.S. experiment: Restoring complexity and quality to ATS

I have put it on R.A.T.S. for several reasons. Fewer trolls find their way to R.A.T.S., and to find your way there in the first place, you have to know a bit more about ATS than some fly-by-night ideologue with a throway moniker who is just trying to stir up trouble on multiple simultaneous boards. R.A.T.S. also demands an investment of points, so in theory I'm hoping people will take the thread more seriously since they "pay" for it, so to speak.

I assume most of the people reading this can find their way to R.A.T.S., and you (and your trusted friends) are all most cordially invited to participate if the desire to do so moves you.

Basically, what I have tried to do in my R.A.T.S. thread is lay out a framework for a form of interacting that I personally think would improve the complexity and quality of posts -- and msot specifically, those posts about controversial and polarizing topics (i.e., politics, religion, etc.).

Through the tentative guidelines I have proposed in that thread (open, of course to ammendment, criticism/comment, and revision), I hope to encourage an attitude that nudges us towards jointly conducted, respectful exploration about thorny issues, and away from "verbal combat."

I am not a mod or an administrator, and I think the people here in these roles continue to do a more-than-excellent job enforcing basic civility and standards. My thread in R.A.T.S. is not at all intended as a criticizism their hard and effective work or the prtocols for the board they have hammered out. Far from it. Rather, my schema is grounded firmly in the ATS terms and conditions, and my understanding of general board etiquette. Hopefully, my proposed schema will provide tools for those who wish to "go a little extra distance" along the same lines we all know and love.

The thread and its proposed guidelines are not aimed at everyone on ATS -- rather, I hope to capture the interest of at least some of the more intelligent, patient, experienced, and committed members of ATS who like longer and more complex interactions. Perhaps it can serve as a kind of "pit stop" for those who want to tackle thorny issues without the distractions of trollish chest-thumping and sound-bite screeching. I hope the thread and suggestions will, in some small way, promote nuanced, open-minded exploration of topic areas that seem increasingly the provance of "minds wide shut."

Again, if you are so inclined, everyone in this thread is most cordially invited to stop by and start up a topic in that thread about anything at all. I have set up the first three posts as an explanation of what I'm aiming for, but I've delibrately left the rest of the thread open to be filled with any topic(s) that catch your imagaination. Please feel free to jump right in with whatever you like.

I hope many of you will find this as worthy an experiment as I do, and I hope that with your help it will bear at least some modest fruit.

All the best,

Silent Thunder

[edit on 4/3/10 by silent thunder]



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I left ATS for a while because of all the negativity and refusal to even consider other points of view. I came back because I really enjoy conspiracy and the UFO topics.

I am rarely in the political areas (except the Bully Pulpit for commentaries/etc) as it almost always goes back to name calling.

I do check in when there is a really interesting topic, but I stay away from most of the others.

Liberal and proud of it,

Lloyd



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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Yes I agree with a poster a few slots above me.

I think people are becoming afraid to even associate with us anymore, for fear of government retribution.

I think the media and such have demonized us so much that average people are scared of us almost the same way as if we were terrorists.

Like you know, how you refuse to go hang out on Al Qaeda websites? Because you know the FBI is watching and will bust you for it?

Yeah, well I think people associate conspiracy theories with terrorism now.

Because questioning the government makes you a bad guy, obviously.

Also, many people just wont bother posting because they will be attacked viciously by members with agendas to treat people unfairly.

ATS has been attacked by malicious people many times. And probably still is under attack.

I do not think the few members going over to make their own forum was a major factor in this. I think that was isolated and limited in scope.

These other issues, like people being Afraid to post their opinions on here for fear of repercussions, is a much bigger issue and needs to be solved.

A lot of these new posters (I consider them Disinfo Agents), sign up a new account for only 1 Purpose. To ridicule and demean everyone they possibly can, spreading hate and confusion where ever they go.

These personalities are the biggest issue of all. They are the people ridiculing and making life miserable for actual original new posters.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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I want to add here that I hope you, SLAYER69, decides to stay at ATS. I might not agree with you, but I always look forward to reading your posts and what you have to say. I hope others here agree with me on that.

Your friend,

Lloyd



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Velvet1
 


The screams of "disinfo agent!!!111oneone" certainly don't help much, either.

But, then again, there are so many transient members and apparent sock puppets (or MUPs) that it is hard to really tell the difference.

Me? I normally do not interact too much with a poster that doesn't have a reputation that I recognize. I have to "know" you before i take too much seriously.

Strangely enough, i use the avatar as a guide as well. Users without an avatar, to me, are most often representative of this transient group of posters (who sign up, post a bunch of babble and stir up a bunch of crap, then disappear).

I have a gaggle of folks who have added me as "friend" (which i appreciate). But i don't recall ever interacting with at least half of them. I rarely add a "friend", and use it more to highlight specific people for reasons that i care to not share at the moment.

But, like i said, it is obvious that there are sock puppets out there. The political debate tells me all i need to know, as the "internets" are now being ruined by conservative, not liberals, after the overturn in the recent election. I can promise you that ATS has its own share of disinfo agent/sock puppets. That is why i don't usually give much time to new posters, especially when they persist in presenting a specific point of view even in situations where they have to shoe horn it into the conversation.



You raise quite a few important points like; " That is why I don't usually give much time to new posters".

I am new, you were new once and I don't subscribe to having to prove myself before being an accepted member anywhere. I mean what a welcome?

Sure, having said that, with sites like this you do have to build some trust amongst established members, but to be ignored 'until' is both rude and unnecessary as any intelligent person will soon spot the disinfo's/psy-ops/shills/trouble makers etc...and presumably push the ignore button!

We should all be here to learn and impart, the rest are par negative in any forum.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower

No, I'm just saying they are too busy to deal with one members Avatar problems when there are 10 thousand members + who can help along with a more than a dozen threads on the topic.

Altough I would figure another reason is that they are doing the re-design and all this stuff is changing very soon.

~Keeper


You know for a fact that they are too busy to help a member out now?

Because without this inside knowledge that you seem to possess about the moderation team here one is left feeling that they are above such civic considerations to the members here. And I highly doubt that the 10,000 + members are all emailing them at this moment asking them for help on a matter that they've had since they've joined the site for the 9th time.

It was also pointed out that the how-to videos are out of date and don't function to the tools availible to present conditions. Thanks for glossing over this point though.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by 3DPrisoner

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

No, I'm just saying they are too busy to deal with one members Avatar problems when there are 10 thousand members + who can help along with a more than a dozen threads on the topic.

Altough I would figure another reason is that they are doing the re-design and all this stuff is changing very soon.

~Keeper


You know for a fact that they are too busy to help a member out now?

Because without this inside knowledge that you seem to possess about the moderation team here one is left feeling that they are above such civic considerations to the members here. And I highly doubt that the 10,000 + members are all emailing them at this moment asking them for help on a matter that they've had since they've joined the site for the 9th time.

It was also pointed out that the how-to videos are out of date and don't function to the tools availible to present conditions. Thanks for glossing over this point though.


No I meant the Admins specifically, not the Mods. Mods should be there to help.

Might I suggest Ashley D or Gools for Avatar help, they are usually the ones I go to.

As far as the threads being out dated, only certain parts, most of it works still the same.

Send me a U2U with your issues and I'll help if you really do need assistance.

I didn't mean to gloss over the issue, I just wanted to point out that the Site Owners, and the Admins, NOT the mods, are quite busy I am sure.

The 10 thousand members comment was in reference to how many of us regular members can assist you if you reach out to us.

~Keeper



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Yes I agree with a poster a few slots above me.

I think people are becoming afraid to even associate with us anymore, for fear of government retribution.

I think the media and such have demonized us so much that average people are scared of us almost the same way as if we were terrorists.

Like you know, how you refuse to go hang out on Al Qaeda websites? Because you know the FBI is watching and will bust you for it?

Yeah, well I think people associate conspiracy theories with terrorism now.

Because questioning the government makes you a bad guy, obviously.

Also, many people just wont bother posting because they will be attacked viciously by members with agendas to treat people unfairly.

ATS has been attacked by malicious people many times. And probably still is under attack.

I do not think the few members going over to make their own forum was a major factor in this. I think that was isolated and limited in scope.

These other issues, like people being Afraid to post their opinions on here for fear of repercussions, is a much bigger issue and needs to be solved.

A lot of these new posters (I consider them Disinfo Agents), sign up a new account for only 1 Purpose. To ridicule and demean everyone they possibly can, spreading hate and confusion where ever they go.

These personalities are the biggest issue of all. They are the people ridiculing and making life miserable for actual original new posters. [/quote


Good valid points, but isn't this a Mod area for monitoring thread quality and member contributions as offensive or obviously bullying etc...

Disinfo seems to be used like a forum cancer, which if you think about it will suit the real agents of disruption perfectly!



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Ignoring emails asking for help is just downright rude and nasty. Any one of those guys could have pointed me to the correct place (if it does exist) that has the up to date tutorials as to how to get the Avatar up and running.

In fact, I only got one response when I finally boiled over and insulted one of them. It took an insult to get a response that did not fix the situation anyway. But at least I finally heard back from somebody. Let the request be civil and suddenly everyone's too busy (as you claim) to have enough common decency as to even respond to the private message request.


What is sad here is that it takes a public statement of negligence such as I have reported here in order to get assistance from this site. And the assistance has to be offered by a member at that.

I thank you for your offer and will be Private Messaging you for help (the thing we dare not ask for on this site now) soon.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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What's going on here is unfair for the Amigos. They are working VERY hard to bring about ATS2010 for ALL the members. This takes time. If you have a pressing issue, use the Complaints function or u2u a staff member. I'm here everyday and if I can't help you(tech issues) I can point you in the right direction.



posted on Apr, 3 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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I have noticed a rising tide politicisation, of a type of Protectionism and isolationism on ATS.

It seems that threads with and USA based agenda are very popular, however if that is then posted by a member from a global or human wide perspective it gets little attention, even if posted before hand.

This has happened to one of my threads recently, very strange I collated all the worldwide events with regards to everything the "Tea Party" issue is about, however there is a global movement this is based on occurring now.

I included the Tea Party links and info, with everything else around the world in relation to this. A few flags, a few comments.

A week or two later a few threads appear just focused specifically on the "American" part of this, to include one done by SkepticOverlord yesterday and huge member posting flags etc.

That is just indicative I think of the Membership and maybe not the readership per se.

Also Some threads which are based just on a personal opinion with no corroborating sources of repute, or research by the contributor except copying and pasting get much interaction from other members, whereas a long, well sourced and researched Thread does not anymore get so much attention.

In today’s world people are not that interested on the whole in researching a topic, or reading a lot of information on a topic. They want a small amount of Headlines and "It is known that" sort of thrusts with no evidence and pretty pictures; the attention span is very short these days.

I was very disillusioned about ATS recently with the Thread "confirmed this morning. 21st March 2010 is Doomsday" being on the front page of ATS no matter how many Flags, I did make my feelings known to Mods etc but it stayed there without the "CONFIRMED" removed. It was just the personal opinion of the OP, no evidence at all.

However we can not as contributors get angry or upset at ATS or its Staff if we find this in our contributions, as it is a member based forum, and they are the ones who choose to ignore or support/debate a Post/Thread.

Having said that I do respect the hard work all the Mods and Admins do, I know that was reviewed, but obviously whoever choose to allow that to be DISINFORMATION and embracing ignorance, choose that. At the end of the day we as members can through threads like this and communication with the Mods/Admins/Amigos etc make our feelings known, and should not be upset or take the whole of ATS to be representative of just one issue or thread.

People as a whole are passive now, and are used to being told what to think without looking at all sides of the arguments and coming to their own conclusion. Most who appose an OP are obviously just rehashing beliefs they had ingrained when a child by peers/society /parents and also personalise it.

There truly is as a 10yr plus lurker and as having a previous "Incarnation" on ATS in its very early basic forum days, a real decline in the Post quality, and attention any quality Threads get. It concerns me that maybe the same politics, and "friendships" or nepotistic type behaviour is becoming a bit apparent in the management of the board, which is the very thing we all berate in the governments/business of the world.

Maybe it is ignorant and immature in a way for some long term & independent thinking members, me included on ATS to not expect the same sort of "Office Politics/Popularity" as seen when a small group be it business/charity etc grows and becomes an Office Block and not a "small friendly caring" type firm anymore. That is just the nature of expansion and group/crowd psychology.

I just hope we don’t allow ATS to have the same nature as the Beast we are apparently trying to out.

ATS is still the best if declining (content/quality) forum in the world for its niche, and just to finish with the thought that is hopefully taken on board by some, that if it declines too much, another will crop up from humble beginnings like ATS started and soon be snapping at its heels. Survival of the fittest is a natural and undisputable law of life, in both nature and human affairs to.

Birds of a Feather do flock together, so if the best quality contributors and members are not appreciated or engaged by the majority in quality Threads, they will obviously go to where that is so. Vice Versa if the membership becomes overwhelmingly Trollish, political and personal & dumbed down then that and they will attract more of the same.

Kind Regards,

Elf.



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