What if God was a part of evolution?

Hey guys.
Just had an idea. Im not saying its how things really are. Im just here to share my thoughts with you all and see what you think. Let's try to keep the discussion on topic and not become a religious debate or anything like that.
So I was thinking.. in some cases, people want to play God. We've seen it already. Scientists trying to make chimeras and things like that. I'm sure there are a handful or people in the world that want to make life. Maybe theyve already accomplished this, but do not even know it because the life they created is too small to see with the naked eye.
I'm sure at one point someone will succeed in making life, and once that life evolves and becomes intelligent enough to wonder about the world around them, they will see their creator as a "god", when he is merely another living being like them, just countless years more advanced.
The creator of this life will observe his creation every once in a while, and may interfere with their progress as a civilization, but he would not answer each and every one of their individual prayers, much like how the majority of People's prayers remain unanswered here. The creator cannot read it's creations thoughts, just observe them as a whole and maybe affect their outcome if he pleases.
I know the people who have strong religious beliefs will get mad about this and i know they will ask "well who made the very first life in this uni/multiverse?"
I dont really have an answer there, but I think this cycle is probably infinite and it keeps happening. It would be impossible to point out the very first creator, because this cycle has been going on for all of time.
Well there's my theory. Thanks for reading and hope you can give me some good input for a good discussion. Sorry to all those religious people out there. This isnt meant to mock your beliefs or anything. Just giving another view on life.
Bulletproof_Monk

Explanation: S&F!

IMO as God must be Omnipresent and therefor also immanent to existence, and as evolution takes place here in many forms [i.e. evolution of suns, galaxies, genetic variation, dynamic systems ect.], then Yes God is/was/will be an inherent part of it!

Personal Disclosure: As for the 1st life in the universe...well God's so powerfull as to be able to self cause themselves out of nothing! That is why they are a God in the 1st place!

reply to post by bulletproof_monk


You are on the right track my friend . I love it when I see a mind that is able and willing to think for itself.

Keep thinking for yourself and never give up in your search for Truth .

Refuse to follow the herd.

Forever trust in who you are, nothing else matters ... ( Metallica )

Happy trails my friend .

Mod edit: Double post removed.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by sanctum]

Well I just want people to wake up and start to make a difference before any other cycles emerge. In infinity there can never be One, and that really gives us what we need to know about ourselves, and our ability to draw our Higher Good, here and shine our lights.

I agree in principle with you. I believe in God and also in evolution. The two beliefs can coexist and must coexist. The only time they don't coexist is in organized religion (mainly in Christianity) or in, what I term, "hostile aethism". Hostile aethism being defined as -One who does not believe in god and must insult or belittle anyone who does. Thoughts?

Originally posted by amazing
I agree in principle with you. I believe in God and also in evolution. The two beliefs can coexist and must coexist. The only time they don't coexist is in organized religion (mainly in Christianity) or in, what I term, "hostile aethism". Hostile aethism being defined as -One who does not believe in god and must insult or belittle anyone who does. Thoughts?

Please explain to me how evolution could not exist within Christianity?

Originally posted by For(Home)Country

Originally posted by amazing
I agree in principle with you. I believe in God and also in evolution. The two beliefs can coexist and must coexist. The only time they don't coexist is in organized religion (mainly in Christianity) or in, what I term, "hostile aethism". Hostile aethism being defined as -One who does not believe in god and must insult or belittle anyone who does. Thoughts?

Please explain to me how evolution could not exist within Christianity?

That might have been a bit stereotypical and I appoligize for that. Most Christians that I know personally or that I have seen on this website and others do not believe in evolution. Only that God created everything and therefore evolution must be false. I do realize that not all Christians believe this but they are in the minority in my experience.

Originally posted by amazing


That might have been a bit stereotypical and I appoligize for that. Most Christians that I know personally or that I have seen on this website and others do not believe in evolution. Only that God created everything and therefore evolution must be false. I do realize that not all Christians believe this but they are in the minority in my experience.

No worries. I have no come to a conclusion that evolution does exist as I am not educated on the topic, and I believe strongly in the divinity and creation of my God.

However, if a Christian is to be logical, the logic would go something like this: God created the heavens and the Universe, therefore everything that was not created by man (or alien) was created by God. Therefore, God created all the discoveries found by science. If there is definitive proof that evolution created man, then God must of created evolution. However, there is no definitive proof for evolution. Not saying that it is wrong though.
Take a look at this: The original bible in hebrew:
Genisis 1:26:
Hebrew: אָדָ֛ם נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֔ים
Direct Hebrew: e·lo·him, na·'a·seh a·dam
English: God make man (adam)

However, the hebrew word na·'a·seh can be defined as: "Original Word: עָשָׂה
Transliteration: asah
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-saw')
Short Definition: accomplish
accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow,

A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application (as follows) -- accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, + displease, do, (ready) dress(-ed), (put in) execute(-ion), exercise, fashion, + feast, (fight-)ing man, + finish, fit, fly, follow, fulfill, furnish, gather, get, go about, govern, grant, great, + hinder, hold ((a feast)), X indeed, + be industrious, + journey, keep, labour, maintain, make, be meet, observe, be occupied, offer, + officer, pare, bring (come) to pass, perform, pracise, prepare, procure, provide, put, requite, X sacrifice, serve, set, shew, X sin, spend, X surely, take, X thoroughly, trim, X very, + vex, be (warr-)ior, work(-man), yield, use. "

Hebrew is a fascinating language. There is no specific way God created man, and it is mysterious to this day!
Bible in Hebrew
Definition

There's really no evidence for Intelligent Design, but there's nothing really preventing someone from believing in directed evolution either. It's just a fairly useless concept beyond reconciling faith with an ever increasing understanding of the natural world. It's very much a personal matter, since it has no real implications on our understanding - nor is it provide useful explanatory insight.

However, it would require the creator in question to have complete omnipotence - absolute causal knowledge - in order to tweak the initial conditions just right so as to "set up all the domino pieces"... then executing the "prime mover" execution of the universe.exe script. The problem with presupposing a finely tuned universe is that, it doesn't allow for intervention. It is only finely tuned, so long as it stays in tune. Start tweaking the properties of particle and their interaction, and you risk systemic collapse of the entire system as the causal reactions forming the next layer of interaction change their definitions. A key property of chaotic systems is their sensitivity to initial change. The very function of the universe that god supposedly created, in fact, restrict the intervention of that god by design. Were god able to simply "will" the universe to work in a contrary way so as to prevent that collapse, we would not observe the Laws of physics which we do. They would be unpredictable, illogical, and arbitrary. We would not see the self-symmetry and elegance in physics that we consistently do.

This, however, brings up other - broader reaching - implications about free will, judgment, and all the other lovely paradoxes which come with the presupposition of absolute causal knowledge/omnipotence.


Personally, I do believe in god, but I don't buy into the concept of omnipotence. I find it more likely that, if the universe has some greater purpose, that we are a byproduct of the function of a system which has very different (and non-anthropocentric) goal than most people promote, and to which the solution has not yet been resolved. From this view, there's not much room for directed evolution as a general concept... though it does better fit the available evidence.



.... oh, and in regards to human synthesis of artificial life. We're right on the threshold of accomplishing this.



"Interviewer: Craig, what would you say to those who suggest that you're playing god?

Craig: Oh, we're not playing. "

God being part of evolution is a neat concept and COULD merge the two topics but still leaves so many of the age old questions unanswered. Most notably: "Who created God?" and leaves the option open to a greater being?

Suppose I sat down and genetically engineered human, animal, plant and all other tings that are perfectly identical to the originals except for being on a scale where "humans" were only 1 micron tall. Place them into an "earth" environment and set them free observing from only a distance but making my presence known.

For all practical purposes I have become their God but who created me if I have indeed been created?

On a related note.. Maybe God created evolution...period. Instead of the huge leap that God created such complex existences and man, animal, plant...well life in general... then added in things like physics and well... all things complex... maybe it was just easier to create single cell organisms make them evolve by continuing to build on that. Creation might not be an instant form. After all we do not simply build a house by making it into existence. We grow trees, we modify those trees into lumber, we build portions of the house separately (tiles, windows, etc) and put them into the house and it becomes the final product over time.

Maybe creation of man took many millions of earth years starting with a single cell organism as life and that was built up and evolved into life as we have come to know it? After all the concept of God means that he has the power to do exactly anything he chooses. While the bible says it only took days I have to ask what is a day? A day is a human reference to how long it takes the earth to rotate one time. God's day, given his infinite life span, may be more like 1,000,000 or more Earth years. In Gods' viewpoint, we could be merely a sea-monkey environment he threw together only two weeks ago and he's still waiting for the inevitable "bacteria" growth to take over and kill off the life inside the aquarium.

I'm just saying that to believe that creation is an instant thing might be a little presumptions and that God, like everything, started with a base and built from there essentially causing what we believe is evolution even if the end point of it all was human life as we know it.

(edit) A final note, God didn't create Eve into absolute existence. He started with a base... a rib.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by awood]

If a god did guide evolution, it would be undetectable, and thus it's pointless to even ask. Especially when we are aware of the natural processes that do not require guidance, adding a god into the mix just makes it even more complicated than it needs to be.

Have you ever considered that True Evolution, may be taking Place in the LIFE entity that is our Parent, and that what we experience as this Little Universe, might be just a Story that LIFE is telling us, in a human like way.

That the Universe we experience, is Just the Story and Not the Source.

This Story being an Interactive experience but none the Less a Story.

There is a Process, in what is Manifested for us to experience, through the human form or any other species.

If Not then Nothing at all would exist.

I believe anyway, that LIFE it self, has and is involved in the Evolution of its Self, but I don't believe this Process, is the Root in this Little Universe.

But I do believe the Story is being told by the LIFE in a human way, purely to get us exploring the possibilities, thus discovering our true selves, and being able to define our real self, (a Droplet of the Total LIFE entity) from the Interactive Picture Story being told by LIFE.

The Old saying of course is.... "A picture tells a thousand Words".
So what we see, and interact with, is the best way of telling a Story.

But for us to really understand, we need to discover HOW this Little Universe is being produced, and the True Nature of its Make up, which is totally different than the end story we are experiencing.

The biggest mistake the human species makes, is try to establish HOW this experience is produced, based on the perception or Human Interpretation, of the End result or Experience.

This prevents us from knowing, as we pursue this in ignorance.

But when we discover our "True Self" that is our Conscious entity, being a droplet of the All that is "The LIFE Entity" itself, then and only then, can we start to understand the Complete nature of this Little universe we are experiencing at present.

By observing this, we find our "True Identity" is Not of this Little Universe at all, but of something totally different and NOT human like at all.

And then we can unlock the Understanding of why this little Universe; and the Story that is being told by our Parent that is LIFE.

May I suggest that LIFE itself, went through a Discovery Process of Itself, and then produce this little Universe to tell the Story of its Self, in that we should come to discover our "True Selves" and the Story being told, regarding the Evolution of The LIFE entity.

Of course God is a part of evolution. He/she/it/they evolved from mans fear of the unknown (and death) and our desire for explanations.