Were the Hippies right?

Ehh I think a lot of hippies had the right idea about certain things, but they seem to be quite lazy and don't get up and do anything to make change. One thing I know for sure is the music from the 60s and 70s is a 100 million times better than any modern music. That is classic music, the music that is being made nowadays won't be remembered 50 years from now, but people will be listening to classic rock such as the beetles, led zepplin, the doors...etc...etc...etc

reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE

What is amazing and still strange to me is how quickly the American establishment came to regard their own youth as the "other", and tourists to San Francisco could take buses to sight-see the hippies!

Concerning laziness, I know from the late 1980s South Africa, if you have a draft into a war you don't believe in and actively oppose hanging over your head, you make your body as useless and passive as is possible for a young person. In a draft or conscription situation that is one form of resistance.

As I think this issue over, complexities and memories flood my old head...please excuse the length of this, but once again it falls to me to rememind people not to lump all "hippies" in together. Let's look at a few aspects of the what goes under one word these days. Hopefully this will help us get a sense of the scope of what was a very complex phenomenon.

First of all, there were really only a very few sincere people who embraced the core of the "hippie" ethos with any degree of vigor, for any length of time. Most of these didn't even look or act like the stereotypical hippie, and most of them did their best work before "hippie" became a household world. As an examｐle, up until his later days when he sadly wigged out and lost it, Tim Leary, hippie guru par excellence, maintained his Harvard-veneer button-down shirts and respectably short hair even as the wildest statements tumbled from his mouth.

So what about the more stereotypical hippie, with the donkey-beads and bellbottoms and sandals? 99% of these bought the gear, grew the hair, and gave it up as soon as the handouts from mom and dad ran out and it no longer worked with the chicks. Those who took their convictions a little farther might have headed out west or to anyother hippie watering hole, but even the vast majority of these only lasted a few years at most. The summer of love was groovy, but it was a real "hassle" to kick in bread or do the dishes, at the commune, man. Lots of nauseating pretention got tossed around in the name of "seeming deep" or trying to impress women with soulfullness. (believe it or not, "being a really beautiful head" was almost as imporatant a currency in the battle to woo the fairer sex in those days as cash is today. Not sure that the elaborate passive aggression of the earlier mode is any better than the straight-up darwinian realism of today).

Then there were the "jet set hippies..." guys like rock stars and successful criminal dealers and trust-funders of every stripe as well as their assorted hangers-on...the guys with the big Malibu beach houses and Acapulco hideaways and the endless parties, who could afford to drift around without working, spouting philosophy and still managing to buy all the latest hip gear like $1000-buckskin jackets (clothes were expensive back then before Wal-Mart!) Let's not forget the opposite end of the spectrum...the scruffy "lunatic fringe..." bikers and criminals and folks like Charles Manson who blew into town and realized their psycopathic tendencies were the perfect ticket to an endless field day of ripping off naive "free love" chicks from Elbow, Iowa and middle-class college kids slumming it yet with fat wallets full of daddy's cash rolled up in their sleeping bags. It never takes long for the wolfs to find the henhouse, and boy were people s-t-u-p-i-d wandering into scenes where they thought good "vibes" alone would carry the day. I believer Hunter Thompson wrote of the "grim, meathook realities" awaithing such airy waifs and elven pudding-fed boys from the 'burbs. In a year, the Height went from being a lyceum metaphysicae par excellance, to an endless summer party, to a very scary place indeed full of grifters, hustlers, and general opportunists. Didn't take but a blink of an eye for the predators to hone in on the soft meat, and this was even before the Internet.

Another thing that gets forgotten...there was a real conflict between the political left and the "heads" who most people thought of as hippies back in the day. The true hippies just cared about "grooving out on inner space" and didn't dig the mass Berekely-radical-style protests against the war or what was perceived as social injustice or whatever. "Turn on tune in and drop out" was their mantra and much to the frustration of the "new left," most true hippies would rather spend a sunny day blissed out in the park rather than holding signs at a protest. The two sides came together somewhat by '68 but that was a disorganized fiasco of easily discouraged dilattantes.

The funny thing about the boomer generation is that they have an almost endless desire and ability to romanticize themselves. None of the heavy irony of gen X or the harsh putdowns of gen Y. These people were hard-core romatics and narcisisists, and every little lumpy mattress or revelation of cosmic import gleaned while picking lice ouf of one's matted hair took on an almost obscene significance. This lack of perspective resulted in failure of "the hippy product" and its loose, often antagonistic ally the so-called "new left."

After the hippies split up, some joined cults, some went back to business school, some stayed down on the farm and tried to make their communes work (and yes a few are still out there...) some became liberatarians and survivalists that are not so different from many ATSers. Some became Born-Again Christians, some became left-wing shrills. Scratch anyone age 60 or thereabouts and after a bit of prodding you'll discover at least a smattering of hippy creds.

The inability to stick through the boring slog it takes to realize big dreams -- plus a patina of ever-present, nauseating narcissism -- destroyed what were initially some very good insigts about the self and society. The best part of these insights are still available for the thoughtful ponderer-- they are, in fact, ancient and available in all times and all palces. To realize them, however, certain qualities are called for: clarity, patience, equinimity, balance, preserverence, dignity, and discipline. It is a true tragedy that the "bursting of bonds" that made inisghts available to hippies in the first place also made these secondary, less-flashy virtues all but impossible. The intoxication of the quest for ever new thrills was the spark that opened a new door but also the distraction that prevented realization of something valuable.

Love,

Silent thunder,

A grizzled old park-bench mutation with a head full of memories and a pocket full of lint who declines to comment on how exactly he spent the late 60s, except it to say it wasn't all fun and games for this working-class boy.



[edit on 4/3/10 by silent thunder]

Forget it pal.

Heres where we would be WITHOUT the Hippies.

We would have families again,core families,not blended families.

There would be less daycares and more stay at home moms.

There would be less children suffering from depression and other illnesses.

There would be fewer drug and alcohol dependant children and teens.

There would be less drug and alcohol addicted divorced parents.

More children would be in post secondary school because their married parents could afford it.

There would be less child poverty .

There would be fewer young upset people filling our jails.

There would be a huge social upside if moms and dads were married and taught their kids to put their pennies in a piggy bank,instead of starving desperate divorced moms having to take those pennies out to feed their children.

There would be less divorce lawyers,and social services childcare workers.

There would be less domestic violence issues within families,blended families suck you know,spare us the story.

I could go on and on,lets just say that I was born after the Boomers so I'll have to ask you to step outside for a moment.

You can forget trying to get any kudos for destroying the fabric of our western society and the fabric of every society on the planet ,THE CORE FAMILY.

You free love screw-ups produced the majority of this mess we are all sitting in and maybe no one else but someone from my generation can call you out on it,but I AM CALLING YOU OUT.

I shall spend the rest of my natural life trying to undo all the crap you guys caused.So naturally I will dirty your BS story up EVERY CHANCE I GET.


You are liars.You gained nothing from being hippies that wasnt already there,you were just lazy,you didnt want to jump when you were told,stay married when you were told,work when you were told,so what!

You rebelled,big deal,thats certainly nothing new.

But you sure did manage to do something no other generation before you could do,YOU DESTROYED YOUR OWN CULTURE YOU FOOLS.

You attacked from within like true traitors,ONLY FROM WITHIN COULD OUR CULTURE HAVE BEEN DEALT A DEATHBLOW.

You attacked and destroyed marriage and the FAMILY,and in doing so sandbagged your own culture.You found a way to slow us all down you idiots,you reduced our birthrate,we went from six kid families to one point five kid families,SO YOU COULD SMOKE A LITTLE DOPE AND HAVE A LITTLE FREE LOVE,MAYBE JUST DROP OUT FOR AWHILE,EH!!!




You reduced our birthrate at A CRITICAL TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY,just when other cultures are hitting their strides we are rolling around on the ground.

And the fact that even one of you has the guts to look for anything but a boot in your arse is atrocious.

Why dont you google indigo children and watch some videos of seven year olds putting your entire generation to shame,hippies all right,screwups you mean,you werent just a fashion statement you were a trojan horse.

All the other arguements are mute,you lowered our birthrate at a critical time and created a legacy of drug and alcohol abuse and a legacy of divorce and rehabilitation,a real sense of I dont give a s### what happens in the future.

I guess like every big fat selfish kid on the block,you just didnt see it this way,eh!!!

You dont have time to fix your mess so hopefully you will just fade away.

Just so you know marijuana is smoked now and it was smoked before you,free love was around before you and is still here,THE ONLY THING MISSING IS MARRIAGE AND FAMILIES.

And you fools these things were here before you and they arent here after you.

You mean to tell me that all of you overeducated EX-HIPPIES OUT THERE CANT SEE THIS.

Its guilt I hear,guilt.

Wanna make it all better?

Tell the truth to the young children so they dont repeat your mistakes,let them have families again and marriages,TELL THE WORLD HOW BADLY YOU SCREWED UP YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU BLOODY VOICE IS SO LOUD AS A GENERATION THAT ALL WE'VE EVER HEARD IS YOU ANYWAYS,first we heard the crys of the massive wave of babies,then the whines of the innumerable bored little kids,then the wailing of the unsatisfied teenagers--millions of them.

You get the point ,you guys USED THE WORLD AROUND YOU AND DIDNT PUT ENOUGH BACK.

You were all poised to be the most giving productive generation in human history but you dropped the ball,pleas dont ask if the hippies were right ,just fade away already.

reply to post by one4all


I think younger people have every right to be angry and critical at the boomers for so much. I'm a boomer and I'm deeply disappointed with "my generation" for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. But you know what, you've got to be careful with that line of thought for several reasons, which I'll get to in a moment.

First of all, the so-called "greatest generation" is very much to blame for the long-term problems of America, and if anything the most rapacious among them grabbed a bigger piece of the pie than is awaiting most boomers. They also re-arranged society in a destructive long-term way, setting up patterns that were hard for boomers to escape or even recognize. But that's another story.

There is indeed a place for criticism of entire generations, and I don't begrudge younger people from taking their best shots. In particular, as the health-care fiascao plays out and more boomers retire, you will see an endless line of elderly peope with their hands out, idiots who have lived basically their whole lives on credit (either literal financial credit or goofy beliefs that "somehow it will turn out OK in the end"). The Boomers, by and large, bought into the bubbles and the pushing away of debt to a "later date". That later date is NOW. My fellow boomers are going to find themselves expecting a level of comfort in retirement that is just not possible, and will be demanding it of children who will probably never live as well as they did.

All this is fair. All this I grant you. But please recognize there are many, many individuals who saw this coming and who do not fit the stereotype. I spent my youth doing hard, manual labor: farm and factory. I got beat by my dad for no reason at all, I spent years on the knife-edge of homelessness, and I taught myself investing and trading and managed to make a middle-class life for myself. I was a crack marksman and a supporter of second-ammendment rights when it wasn't "cool" and most of my cohorts looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. I endured ridicule for years by not going into debt and living like a shabby miser.

At the same time, I took big financial risks, many of which didn't pay off. When I was down, I was down, but I didn't take governement cheeze and I will survive in my old age on my savings (assuming they hold out). I plan to work until the day I drop dead because that's the way I was raised: "no work today, no food today" was the motto on the farm of my childhood. I live frugally...no McMansion and zero credit-card. In short, I saw what was coming years ago and attempted to prepare. And there are millions like me in the boomer cohort, but you don't see them or hear much about them because they keep their heads down and their clothes shabby. Give me a good book or a computer link to ATS and I'm in heaven...I don't need Dennis Hopper's golf-course fantasy of boomer retitrement. When I get too old to chew the leather and support myself, rather than take a dime off of anyone I'm committed to my own personal form of, shall we say, stoic and instantaneous "retirement."

I'm not whining and moaning here -- I have had a fantastic life and although I have a smattering of regrets I can say with pride I did it my way in real time for the most part. Again, I think gen X in particular has a right to criticize the boomers (as many boomers will skip over gen X and transmit the levers to power to their gen-y spawn), But I'm imploring everyone to keep the exceptions in mind when criticizing large groups of people, and to remember that what you see on Forrest Gump isn't exactly the whole boomer story.



[edit on 4/3/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by one4all

You proclaim: "Here's where we would be without hippies": Oh, and I thought you'd just still be in Vietnam growing opium to keep the blacks down, with alcoholic, chain-smoking explosive dads and Valium popping moms.

The hippies, even at their numerical height in 1969 were just a minority. Many of the other things you mention have nothing to do with the hippies. The hippies had more kids than other people, in fact they were the boost to the US baby boom. Some left the movement shortly after having kids, others tried the communal approach for a while, but it wasn't much fun with screaming toddlers running around.
Feminism, and increasingly accepted divorce was happening in normal society, and the feminist movement already started in the 1950s. The birth control pill became widely available. Why not criticize everybody who used the pill and contraception? The hippies didn't invent it, spread it, and often didn't take it (oops, I forgot man).

If babies are so important, then try our SA President Jacob Zuma, he's got 5 wives and 18 kids (I hope I'm correct, there's new additions constantly, and the guy is over 60).

Have you, your girlfriend, or your wife ever used contraception or the pill? If you have then you are a hypocrite by what you say. It was the pill that changed society and sexuality because it no longer had to be bound to a nuclear family, because women suddenly had choices over their reproductive systems. So blame medical science and all the "normal" people.
How many babies have you made? Not knowing your age, but by your argument your wife should be constantly pregnant. Sounds like you want to make the US a Third World kinda place.

And what was life like before the hippies? You knocked some broad up and either you married her and turned out like your dad, or you left her in eternal shame.
And what do you mean there was less violence? Did the hippies cause Vietnam? The hippies were a product of that violence.


[edit on 3-4-2010 by halfoldman]

Silent thunder,if you read your story and exclude every part that refers to saving money or stealing it by removing the resource or value from the global dinner table ,I am with you all the way,as a matter of fact you would be surprised how much we have in common,but the buck stops at the saving by stealing from kids in afrika for me.

The reality is that we live in a global village for the first time in history,what you do at your bank in Omaha has a direct and real impact on the child in a slum in Africa,this is an UNAVOIDABLE REALITY.

What is also an unavoidable reality is that there is currently no venue through which those of us willing to help CAN help.

So as long as people like us continue to talk and communicate we will eventually get all of the boomers and their selfish childrens money out of the bank AND INTO THE MOUTHS OF THE WORLDS CHILDREN.

One way or another that money is going to be redistributed around this planet during your lifetimes,as the old saying goes it can be the EASY WAY or the HARD WAY ,its up to YOU.

Its all good but the stealing[saving]part.

Its only a mindset,can you truly tell me that all of the admirable honorable things I read in your post wouldnt exist today if you excluded the saving or stealing part ,I know for a fact that you would still be admirable and honorable,but with the stealing part I truly cant say that.

Most of us are like you we are honorable ,good,hardworking ,caring people,BUT WE ALL STUMBLE IN THE SAME SPOT FOR SOME REASON.

Its the giving unconditionally part because this requires trust that there will be a reciprocal action in the future,and as I said we dont have a venue through which we can direct the help willing people would supply.

This is what neither of our generations fully understands,the WHO behind why there are no venues in place through which we can all help effectively and freely and openly.

You see we have been hindered and kept seperated in beliefs and cultures and ideologies with INTENT.How we have been behaving is unnatural and we all know it ,we just dont know WHO OR WHY.

Church,Government,Corporate entities,Money based ecomomy.

Its all about money and these groups.

One world democracy where every human has an equal voice in humanities future,no regional borders or governments,global health care and food care,disempowerment of organised religon and its fiscal ties to government and society in general,Laws that prevent humans from propogating non-humanitarian belief systems,an elimination of money and currency,resource based global economy,free everything to everyone including unlimited education.

You have to eliminate the churches to eliminate the ME FIRST VIOLENT attitude,you need to create a global democracy to eliminate regional wars and genocide,you have to eliminate money to ensure that the first two dragons stay dead,and you must at all cost not allow individuals to amass resources by stealing them from the global dinner table,each humans value must be determined by their EXISTENCE IN EQUALITY ,not by some fictional value based on how much they can steal from others.


The truth is we are all equal,no one no matter what they do has more value than another,so if we know this we know why we all have the same crack in our stories foundation,lets patch it up by talking about it truthfully,and admitting our real shortcoming,that we are so afraid of the future that we justify stealing from humanity in case we need to survive beyond humanity,you see this is impossible we are all interconnected,without humanity what good is your store of resources??

Now that we see the logic of NOT STEALING FROM HUMANITY ,lets looky see who has been lieing to us all this time,make sure you let it all out when you see the forest through the trees,DONT BE AFRAID TO POINT FINGERS AND ASESS BLAME YOU ARE PART OF HUMANITY YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND HUMANITY THAT STRETCHES BEYOND RELIGON,AND GOVERNMENT,AND PERSONAL NEEDS.

Now theres only one thing scarier than half a billion screaming christians with their backs up,THREE OR FOUR BILLION SCREAMING HUMANITARIANS WITH A BONE TO PICK.

The masses are informed and educated now,I am not sure I am prepared to defend the BS thats been pulled on them.

I am a HUMANITARIAN,you bet your arse,I can do basic math ,and I understand supply and demand,when you run out of supply YOU DEMAND.

I actually read the UN website until I got to the part where it said 189 countries were involved.I almost vomitted.What this really means is that 189 lieing,manipulating ,governments decided to participate WITHOUT TAKING A COMPLETE VOTE ,FROM EVERY HUMAN IN THEIR COUNTRIES.

This means that the UN is no more reliable than any of them.

You tell me the names of EVERY SINGLE PERSON FROM THOSE 189 COUNTRIES THAT VOTED TO SUPPORT THE SAME AGENDA I VOTE TO SUPPORT AND WE ARE TALKING,.

Who do they think they are fooling here?

The UNs agendas are decided upon by these 189 criminal groups,and because the methods used to represent the people are CROOKED AND CRIMINAL IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, WE STILL ARENT HEARING AND ACTING UPON WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT.

A public forum on the internet in which EVERY SINGLE HUMAN VOICE THAT HAS A VOTE IS HEARD IN PERSON---NO MIDDLEMEN.Then we know that we are persuing the AGENDAS THAT WE ALL WANT,and we know that OUR VOICES ARE BEING ACCURATLY REPRESENTED IN REAL TIME AND ACTED UPON IN REAL TIME.

Without EVERY SINGLE VOICE BEING HEARD this is just another criminal group.

We need to cut the BS and as a former farm boy I can tell you you need to get your hands dirty to clean things up.

Every voice online real time and suddenly politicians are extinct.

In order to understand the hippie culture, you would have to take into account the era and influences they lived in so as to make an informed analysis.

It was the 60s, age of the Beatles cult, their songs and also their idiosyncrasies of Indian Guru beliefs around the world. As we realized today, spiritualism of love and togetherness has a place in this cold world today, but it was far too advanced during that era of innocence.

And it was an era of innocence for USA then, victors, prosperous and saviors of the world after WW2. But then the war in Vietnam ended such innocence as the horror of the wars was brought before the living rooms.

It was also a time of nobility, when white kids whom were spared the draft fought for their fellow young who were drafted, in a war they knew it was wrong. It was a wrong battlefield, not only for precious young American blood spilt, but the Vietnamese commies and the ‘democratic’ southern Vietnam young as well.

The only ones who benefited had been the Corporations with their insane theory of ‘statistics’ using body bags, lack of understanding of Vietnam’s battle scarred and bullied history, as well as the corrupt ‘democratic’ southern Vietnam leaders, all of them.

Although drugs were extensively used, it was only done in experimentation, to take away their horrors that they were witnessing. It was WRONG, as it goes against the very grain of what true spiritualism of Love is. It is to love oneself then others. To take or to deal in drugs is only to destroy oneself and others. Many ended their experimentation and turn out solid citizens when the war ended and their ends achieved.

Free love and promiscuity was prevalent. They were only young, and it happens naturally, even in other eras. Many are committed to each other later, and reared fine children responsibly. Only a few, as the great post by Silent Thunder had wrote, were irresponsible.

Together as one, the American young had shown what they could do, peaceable. They ended the war, as the morons in Washington then realized and re-studied the war. It was a defining moment for the country, for without that hippie culture of love for fellow humans, the hardened hearts of the Corporations would not have soften nor had their knees shaking badly in guilt for their errors, over a war that could never be won, for no matter how many died, freedom for the Vietnamese will never die, nor will there ever be enough bullets or bombs to kill them all.

Others may disparage against the hippies, but without them, US would not have the progress they had today and would have only lengthened the war for untold years, with fullest misery for all on all sides.

The hippies grew out of an age when innocence was lost. Today, we humanity are still finding our way out of the mess created by others who deemed themselves superior and capable to rule mankind.

You and I may need the hippie culture again, (minus its excesses), to go for the egalitarian way if we are get out of the utilitarian quagmire of incompetent leadership from the shadow govts around the world today.

Peace.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

You know when I first read your initial post about "Where would we be without the hippies?", I expected to post to a real right-wing, judgemental person. But your next posts have had some really nice insights, that were actually kinda refreshing for me.
Thanks.

We made Doris Day redundant! which was a good thing, India! an the Far East were opened by us!

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Do any of you think the Hippies made a big difference to Western society since the 60's?

HUGE!

The hippie movement showed the establishment just how much media, music and spiritual movements could affect culture and the economy.

So they killed the movement and vowed NEVER to let it happen again.

...Much of the establishment's "social engineering" today results from lessons learned in the "Hippie Era." And it does have a HUGE impact on us, our lives and our (in)ability to get along and cooperate.

Originally posted by whaaa
I'm a hippie entrepreneur businessman, and have made obscene amounts of money, lost count of the number of women I've made love to, played Rock and Roll stoned out of my mind, to huge crowds and enjoyed every second and still subscribe to the ideal of Peace and Love. To those that disparage my lifestyle, I don't give a ****.........I mind my own business, hurt no one, provide for my friends and live every day to it's fullest.

And before you stereotype me... I'm a vet, well armed and if you **** with me or my loved ones.... God help you!!



[edit on 2-4-2010 by whaaa]

Well said brother, and may I amplify your remarks...

I'm currently a physically disabled hippie,

I was tear gassed on the north steps of the Pentagon in 68, trying to end an unjust war. we finally ended that war.

I have never taken a dime in food stamps, unemployment, student loans, social security, or disability. I went to woodstock. I have been working since I was 14. I has also never actually looked for a job. I built a business for 30 years and my 'clients" - the ones who chose to pay me for my time at the rate I decided they would pay me included over the years... IDA, SAIC, BDM, IBM Federal Systems, Loral Federal Systems, Budds Creek Motocross, Linda Carter, and the Crown Prince of Iran.

In 1991 I founded a political party in Virginia, the Patriot Party,,

In 2006 I became concerned that America did not produce anything anymore and that we were a country of morons who couldn't (produce)...having hired and fired many bright "kids' who were completel;y clueless how anything actually worked.. So I fixed up the house that I bought ON credit cards for a downpayment in 1980, with OWNER financing at 10%, to prepare it for sale. - I was also motivated because I urgently needed back surgery that was uninsured - a preexisting condition...

And I was sued TWICE in US Federal Court for bull#...

Two days before the the stock market crashed in 2008, I got a contract to sell my home and the guy did not back out in the 45 days till closing! and then I married a lovely gal who loved the passion in my writings on the web, who was also well to do.

So now we are together watching the economic bedlam, the handwringing and the finger pointing....with the relative comfort of 6 digits of cash, at 60 years of age.

And I watched Grace Slick, reeling on lsd, walk out onto the front of the stage, to start singing at sunrise on the 2nd day at Woodstock, and the clouds parted!!

So What ( to the OP) have you done besides complain?


[edit on 3-4-2010 by seataka]

So What ( to the OP) have you done besides complain?

Im the OP and im not complaining about nothing, PS I got a wack in the Ear out side the US Embassy in London 1968, I was 18teen! im in my 61frst year as we speak, peace!

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
So What ( to the OP) have you done besides complain?

Im the OP and im not complaining about nothing, PS I got a wack in the Ear out side the US Embassy in London 1968, I was 18teen! im in my 61frst year as we speak, peace!

Having further reviewed the thread,
I hereby publicly apologize to the OP for my swift kick reaction.
and redirect the resulting screed at any that consider that generation to have been useless.
Hows that?
perhaps I could try doing a Gildna Radner imitation??? Nevermind...


Further, I believe that there was a dedicated war waged against my generation.... in order to defuse the results of the enlightenment of the times... incuding Cocaine, Heroin dusted weed, Crack, '___' that was not '___', and Agent Orange poisoned Weed...the best minds of that generation were destroyed, and I believe it was done with intent.





[edit on 3-4-2010 by seataka]

No other generation has done more to harm the American culture than the hippies.

They were, and are, a disease on the nation.

This group of malcontents ushered in widespread venereal diseases, drug abuse/dependence, broken & fatherless families, and allowed Marxist/Communist ideology to become mainstream in academia and in the press.

They gave rise to Charles Manson, Jim Jones and mass suicide, actively supported Mao Tse Dong, Che Guevara, Pol Pot and any number of other mass murderers.

They spit on American soldiers coming back from overseas and made a mockery of the flag.

Take a look at the book "Destructive Generation" by David Horowitz. It gives an excellent account of how poisonous these people have been to us.

reply to post by MMPI2

No other generation has done more to harm the American culture than the hippies.

Really I would say the generation that allowed for the Civil War to happen, fought brother against brother during it, and introduced the Corporate Government and the United States Codes in the aftermath of it, while creating the Military Industrial Complex takes the prize there!

Followed by the Generation that ushured in the Federal Reserve Act, giving away the rest of the nation's sovereignty to foreign bankers.

Followed by the Generation that ushured in the Social Security Act making us all serialized property of the Department of Commerce.

But hey if you want to cling to that bit of fiction you got going there you keep on keeping on man! Right on!

This group of malcontents ushered in widespread venereal diseases, drug abuse/dependence, broken & fatherless families, and allowed Marxist/Communist ideology to become mainstream in academia and in the press.

Really now this would be the venereal disease that dates back thousands of years? These would be the drugs like Marijuana found in Chinese and Egyptian Tombs from thousands of years ago, smoked by the native Americans since the dawn of time, or the Opium that Alexander the Great's Army used to march their aches and pains away on, or the pharmacuticals developed by the Third Reich for their armies to march away their aches and pains on, or would that be the '___' that the CIA invented and experimented with to make a super soldier killing machine?

Now this communist Marxist idealogy that the elites actually funded the writing of and implementation of to create full time armed camps and a military industrial complex to tax us to death, hasn't been stamped out yet?

Gee one can only wonder why there.

They gave rise to Charles Manson, Jim Jones and mass suicide, actively supported Mao Tse Dong, Che Guevara, Pol Pot and any number of other mass murderers.

Really 20 million hippies and one Charlie Manson, any idea how many hippies it would have taken to do somethign like say change a light bulb? If you really must blame someone besides Charlie Manson for Charlie Manson try Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, who was a surfer not a hippie. He gave Charlie some hope he might have a career in Music.

You might want to blame the Christians for Jim Jones since he was a Christian Minister that even then President and First Lady Jimmy and Rosylnn Carter respected and admired. So as far as Jim Jones take your pick if you don't want to actually blame Jim Jones for what he did, blame the Christians or blame Jimmy Carter.

Now as to how many hippies might have admired the writings of Mao or Che or Pol Pot or admired their writings and actions I can't say.

What I can say is hippies didn't finance them, I can say though that it's a historical fact that Prescott Bush the former Presidents Father and Grandfather, Rockefeller and Harriman and many other American elites too did though finance two charming guys named Adof Hitler and Benitto Mousilini.

But hey ignorance is bliss man, so by all means stereotype away over there!

They spit on American soldiers coming back from overseas and made a mockery of the flag.

Those would be the soldiers involved in the wholesale slaughter of men, women and children to protect the tin mines of the elites, the poppy fields of the elites, and a corrupt puppet government in Vietnam that couldn't last a day without us forcing it on the people?

So pretty much what ever action our government takes, no matter how many innocent men, women and children it murders, maims and displaces is something we should all wrap ourselves in the flag in and salute.

I would say it was the government that did a lot more to those soldiers, as it killed over 60,000 of them and maimed over hundred thousand others, while killing up to two million people, in a foreign war our forefathers and founders would have never wanted us to fight who disgraced the flag, oh and people who support murder for resources and empire.

The hippies saved hundreds of thousands of future Americans from being killed in Vietnam and if that meant a FEW of them spitting on a FEW soldiers, I am sure the men whose names aren't now carved in granite on the Wall in Washington might be a little happier about that than you.

How many more Americans would you have liked to have seen die over there? You don't really think the poor agragarian and rural Vietnames were going to attack American shores 12,000 miles away do you?

Take a look at the book "Destructive Generation" by David Horowitz. It gives an excellent account of how poisonous these people have been to us.

Well if your stereotypical attitudes and poor knowledge of history is any indication of that book, I would say we have found a source of poison.

That people could believe such nonsense...

The thing that is destructive to America is the Military Industrial Complex and the International Banking Cartel.

We have a lot of problems and most of them are because of those two things.



[edit on 4/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Thanks for the interesting thread everyone, this has been a good discussion to amble through, with everything from misty mountain hops down memory lanes (and perhaps the occasional memory skid row) to righteous indictments by today's crop of angry young men. It's almost all valid in its own way, and looking over the diversity of opinions in this thread, one thing rings clear and true: the vast majority of those on ATS -- hippies or ex-hippies, bankers or bakers, boomers or youngsters -- seem to break the standard-issue molds with aplomb. In a weird way we almost all seem to have something in common...can't quite put my finger on it... (could it be a love of FREEDOM perhaps?)...something that sometimes gets called left-wing, sometimes gets called right-wing, sometimes gets called filthy hippie and sometimes is designated the beating heart of free enterprise...but in its best and most radient forms, it is always righteous and fresh and ready for you if you want to reach out and take it...our birthright as free, proud men and women, explorers of space both inner and outer.

It's a sad and beautiful world, isn't it? Somehow we've made it this far and I suspect most of us will keep on truckin' for some time to come.

May God bless every one of you, and for those here who are not into the God thing, may the winds of Karma bear you aloft on lyrical and clement gusts.


[edit on 4/4/10 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

The hippies were basically white middle class kids who "dropped out". I suppose blacks and other minorities couldn't really drop out of a sytem that never included them in the first place.

And the white kids could come back in at any moment, so their "dropping out" was essentially meaningless.

The responses of minorities to the hippies were however mixed, and not wholly negative. Perhaps people forget how restricted the atmosphere was before the hippies.

Not especially. Much like the Victorian era, the 40's and 50's had an ethos of "things to not talk about in public" - however, private life was pretty unrestrained. Popular media and actual practice in this period was widely divergent, simply because popular media was "public" and therefor heavily handled and censored. That's why Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds... despite their depiction as a swinging interracial couple who hang out in jazz clubs.

I don't think it was coincidence that "black power" and "red power" emerged towards the tail-end of the hippies, and wider society at least wanted to listen...

Actually, black power emerged primarily because the civil rights movement, for all its success, wasn't really all that successful. Racism and segregation were still widespread, violence was frequent, and the government had this total paternalist sort of thing, "We're letting you go to school, and you want us to pass an anti-lynching law, too? What do you want from us!"

So many black leaders and organizers advocated black self-sufficiency and a removal from state paternalism. Odd how modern black conservatism has a lot in common with the militant black power groups that they mock.

Red power rose as a result of the gains of black power. We went "hey, those fellas have the right idea, let's try our hand at it."

That there were white people to listen was probably tied to the hippy movement, I guess. But then.. .this is the result of white hippies paying attention to Red Power:



So... yeah... i can appreciate the dancers, but...

Partly it also created interest in native arts, and various native peoples also benefitted from this.

Turning one's culture into a pawn shop doesn't seem like a benefit to me.

Moving on, though...

Originally posted by one4all
Forget it pal.

Heres where we would be WITHOUT the Hippies.

We would have families again,core families,not blended families.

Unfortunately the nuclear family is a disease on society. A large, supportive clan structure with mother, father, kids, grandparents, uncles, aunts, close friends, is actually far more healthy than just mom, dad, kids. Pretty much everything wrong with the modern family can be traced back to this tiny screwball concept.

There would be less daycares and more stay at home moms.

Most hippy mothers were in fact stay-at-home mothers, dude. keep up.

There would be less children suffering from depression and other illnesses.

again, thank the nuclear family

There would be fewer drug and alcohol dependant children and teens.

That actually ties into the depression thing.

There would be less drug and alcohol addicted divorced parents.

No, these were pretty common in the pre-hippy era, too. Especially if you realize that alcohol is the most family-destructive drug in the world.

More children would be in post secondary school because their married parents could afford it.

Don't you mean married parent, singular, since you just crammed women back into the kitchen? I'd love to see a litter of kids go to college on the salary of one working father these days.

There would be less child poverty.

Child poverty is a direct result of adult poverty and has squat to do with hippies.

There would be fewer young upset people filling our jails.

Again, what's this have to do with hippies, considering most people in jail are there because either their skin color got them a harder sentence or because their class standing prevents them from buying their way out?

There would be a huge social upside if moms and dads were married and taught their kids to put their pennies in a piggy bank,instead of starving desperate divorced moms having to take those pennies out to feed their children.

While I agree, I'm still not seeing the hippy connection.

There would be less divorce lawyers,and social services childcare workers.

Just what we need, unemployed busybodies.

There would be less domestic violence issues within families,blended families suck you know,spare us the story.

Nuclear families actually encourage and protect spousal and child abuse, man. Beating your wife and kids was accepted practice way before any hippy decided he didn't want to wash the ketchup out of his beard.

I could go on and on,lets just say that I was born after the Boomers so I'll have to ask you to step outside for a moment.

Now, the boomer,s THERE'S a problem generation.

You can forget trying to get any kudos for destroying the fabric of our western society and the fabric of every society on the planet ,THE CORE FAMILY.

Most societies in the world actually practice the extended family. The Nuclear family really is more of an Anglo thing.

You free love screw-ups produced the majority of this mess we are all sitting in and maybe no one else but someone from my generation can call you out on it,but I AM CALLING YOU OUT.

Well, they DID vote for Reagan, so, I guess no real argument, but I doubt that's the particular you had in mind.

I shall spend the rest of my natural life trying to undo all the crap you guys caused.So naturally I will dirty your BS story up EVERY CHANCE I GET.

Go for it. Slap their heads every time they claim to have ended Vietnam. The NLF won that one fair and square.

You reduced our birthrate at A CRITICAL TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY,just when other cultures are hitting their strides we are rolling around on the ground.

Wait... what? Birthrate? What?

Now let's be fair. Every administration between Truman and Bush I pumping nearly every cent in the country into the military and scare propaganda, the attack on culture and arts from red-hunters, and the reduction of education to brainless test modules to "keep up with the ruskies" did way more harm to all this stuff than anything Hippy-related.

Why dont you google indigo children and watch some videos of seven year olds putting your entire generation to shame,hippies all right,screwups you mean,you werent just a fashion statement you were a trojan horse.

You're calling hippies dumb in the same breath you're talking about Indigo kids. Which, not only is it dumb, it was also invented by hippies. Are you confused?

All the other arguements are mute,you lowered our birthrate at a critical time and created a legacy of drug and alcohol abuse and a legacy of divorce and rehabilitation,a real sense of I dont give a s### what happens in the future.

Most civilized nations with a low infant mortality rate have a rather low birthrate. You going to tell me that Japan and Germany, with their deflating birth rates, are the victims of hippies? It's a natural fact of human society, repeated through EVERY society.

Just so you know marijuana is smoked now and it was smoked before you,free love was around before you and is still here,THE ONLY THING MISSING IS MARRIAGE AND FAMILIES.

Which ewere fatally damaged long before hippies, and only damaged worse by the people who hate hippies. Hippies were more a victim than a cause.

And you fools these things were here before you and they arent here after you.

People don't get married and have families anymore?

Tell the truth to the young children so they dont repeat your mistakes,let them have families again and marriages,TELL THE WORLD HOW BADLY YOU SCREWED UP YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU BLOODY VOICE IS SO LOUD AS A GENERATION THAT ALL WE'VE EVER HEARD IS YOU ANYWAYS,first we heard the crys of the massive wave of babies,then the whines of the innumerable bored little kids,then the wailing of the unsatisfied teenagers--millions of them.

You get the point ,you guys USED THE WORLD AROUND YOU AND DIDNT PUT ENOUGH BACK.

You were all poised to be the most giving productive generation in human history but you dropped the ball,pleas dont ask if the hippies were right ,just fade away already.

Again, can't argue too much here, but it's more of a general boomer problem you're on, rather than hippies specifically.

I AM awful damn tired of hearing about the 60's, though. There were other decades. Ah well. Guess I can bore my grandkids to tears with tales of the '80s.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

The hippie generation destroyed the American family and shamed a once great nation.

There is no way to spin this, although some on this thread will try their dead-level best to do it.

Perhaps this is the true legacy of the 60's "movement." Nothing more than a feel-good ideology and that morphed into moral relativism and a wholesale cultural pathology that allows justification, rationalization and intellectualization of anything.

We see through your lies and propaganda, hippies. We pity you and despise everything that you have ever stood for.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Not especially. Much like the Victorian era, the 40's and 50's had an ethos of "things to not talk about in public" - however, private life was pretty unrestrained. Popular media and actual practice in this period was widely divergent, simply because popular media was "public" and therefor heavily handled and censored. That's why Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds... despite their depiction as a swinging interracial couple who hang out in jazz clubs.

I'm an old fart, and I was there when Lucy and Ricky were live on tv, and it would never have occurred to us that Lucy and Ricky were an interracial couple.
Those latinos, as they were not then called, who when among anglos could pass for spanish, were considered white in the same way that the spanish were white. Maybe not "white white" in the "aryan from Darien" sense, but nonetheless white.

(if you don't understand the "aryan from Darien" reference, google it.)

[edit on 4/4/2010 by christianpatrick]

[edit on 4/4/2010 by christianpatrick]