Christianity is a Conspiracy; ALL of you are going to HELL

I would think of it in a 'prison' type meaning. A hole in the ground would work, but a hole in the ground with a cover and a guard?


Just as Hades was a Greek concept, after all the NT was written in 'everyday' Greek ??Konine??.

Ive actually known about the literal definition of hell for a long time, i was expecting a little more meat on those bones in the OP but it is good info to get out there weather people accept it or not.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Ah, thanks for the reply, and I knew the dimensions were extreme but had not looked at them in a scale perspective. That's incredible. As to the theory regarding how it is all going to unfold, it sounds like there is sound logic behind it to make it work, but it just seems a little off to me for some reason to be honest. Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see!

Lucifer, Satan, or the Devil may have been the chief prosecutor, but it all changed when he decided to elevate his position to that above God. At least, that's how the popular opinion goes about it. He viewed himself as being equal or greater to God and tried to ascend above Him. This is what caused him to be cast down from Heaven with those who followed in his footsteps.

The non-canonical book of Enoch sheds some light to it as well, if you accept it as being valid. In summary, it says that God ordered the angels to worship Adam, since he was made in the image of God, and Satan refused. Instead, he believed that humans should worship him and the other angels since they were created first. This is where the disagreement started and eventually lead to his dismissal from Heaven.

Those are the commonly accepted thoughts on the reasoning so far as I know. I personally don't accept the Enoch story, though it is interesting and somewhat insightful.

Perhaps there are two separate entities, one that has served as the accuser in order to test us and one that has actually deemed himself to be supreme over God? Not something I'm about to start preaching but worth consideration maybe.

reply to post by Mykahel


I only have one concern to your post, and that is the misconception that Ha-Sjatan was ever called Lucifer. Lucifer is a Roman pet name for Satan, and has no scriptual proof other than in Catholic and later fiction based litterature as we know it from Dante and Milton etc. The name Ha-Sjatan carried before the fall was Samael. Lucifer was the Latin name of the god of the Morning Star and means lit. Morning Star, when planet Venus rise in the East just before dawn. Lucifer doesn't turn up on the scene until a few hundred years BC, while Samael or similar namesare found in really ancient Hebrew books and manuscripts. He is even found in the Bible some argue, when Sjaul asks the woman in En-Dor to raise a spirit for him:

1 Samuel 28:8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name." 9 But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?" 10 Saul swore to her by the Lord, "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this." 11 Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" "Bring up Samuel," he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"

However, most scolars agree that it is the ghost of the prophet Samuel to whom the book containing the story is attributed. Anyway, according to both Enoch and Kabalah writings Satan was named Samael when he was God's Seraph and Arch Angel, before he waged a war in Heaven and was overturned becoming the Enemy, or Ha-Sjatan.

NCM

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


I wouldn't have been able to explain it in the detail that you just did, but I was already aware of that. I was just tossing out all of the "typical" or "familiar" names that people used for him. I've known for a while that one was in error. Doesn't bug me near as much as people still using the name Jehova for God though. Bugs me every time, especially if it shows itself in our worship songs.

reply to post by Mykahel


Indeed, some Catholic monk living a millennium ago got a bright (or perhaps not as bright) idea that JHVH had to be pronounced with inserting the vowels of Adonai (Lord in Hebrew, often used in Hebrew Tanaks to replace the Name of God which cannot be pronounced, JHVH. Others change one of the letters with a dash to avoid using the Name in vain) in between the consonants of the Tetragramathon JHVH. Over the centuries it changed from JaHoVaH to Jehova. Really silly and no linguistic foundation. A better one would be Jahveh, but even that is fallacy. JHVH is simply just a spark compared to the Living Light, God's Name which is based upon one or upto four chunks of letters each being 72 letters long according to Kabalah.

Also the nickname Devil used in western bibles to replace the Greek Diablos, has the same Indo European origin as Latin Deus (God), Sanskrit Deva/Devi (God/Goddess) and is even more obvious in Romani Devel (God). When the name Devil was invented and brought into the Bible, the Romani speaking nomads often called "Gypsies" (more correctly the Rom people) were outed as the "spawn of Satan" no less, since they refused to submit under government rules and regulations, buy land, pay taxes etc. ergo, their God "would have to be Satan", hence Devel turned into Devil in English.

[edit on 8/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

After reading many of the posts and replies. My only feedback or input would be this. Yes many of the scriptures are and can be confusing as well as interpreted differently depending on your point of view and background. But as a Christian the only thing I would ask you is this: Lets say that atheists are right and there is no God. What is the worst that i've done then....lived by a moral code, tried to be good to my fellow man, maybe helped someone on the way and tried to put the needs of others over my own needs, no harm no foul. HOWEVER, let's say (just for arguments sake) that Christians are right. Then the "stories" or "tales" that the Bible speaks about no matter how you interpret them, will come to pass. This then means that judgement and spiritual death will occur. My favorite thing to ask non believers is this. If what you believed in was wrong, wouldn't you want to know? Well I ask each of you that now.

reply to post by WOODYWOOD


How do you KNOW what people who don't believe what you do are wrong?

lllll

reply to post by WOODYWOOD


"If what you believed in was wrong, wouldn't you want to know?"

And I ask you the same question .

If what you believe is wrong , would you want to know , or would you be content to just believe and not care whether or not it was true ?

If I am wrong then I will 'pay the piper'.

If you and yours are wrong , then there have been untold millions or even billions , who have spent their entire lives believing a lie ,never having reached their full potential due to ignorance of the truth .

This entire planet has been conned into a perpetual state of retardation due to these falsehoods and myths .

This works out really nice for those in control of the human race .

reply to post by okbmd


The point Woody was making is that if he is wrong and ceases to exist upon death, he won't be able to even regret having not "reached his full potential" as you put it. The sad thing is, even if people were living a lie by believing this, Christians have done so much good for the world it can hardly be said that there have not been great men and women of faith that have changed the world for the better. Sounds like a superiority complex to me. Always gotta be better than somebody right?

I think you'll find that there are plenty of highly intellectual people who believe these things with all their heart. Sure, there are those who follow blindly and are ignorant of truth, not wanting to seek out the facts. Your statement is so naive and insulting that I contemplated whether or not to respond. You have shown your folly repeatedly and revel in it, claiming it as wisdom.

Farewell, I have nothing more to say to you, as you don't even care about the topic you posted any more, but have turned this into your own little thread to insult those who think differently then you.

reply to post by okbmd


If the Gospel can turn people into conceous helpers of the weak like it was intended to then what is there to be argued over? In parts of my life I have myself been helped by the Salvation Army and other good Christians practicing sound doctrine in accordance with the Gospel. But I have also seen my share of "Christians" practicing their faith in the most distasteful orders. Leading gay people to suicide, silencing abuse victims, destroying evidence in such cases and even defending such doctrines, claiming God's Word orders them to forgive priests who rapes children (while gays must "naturally" be "healed" and if it doesn't work, they must be left over to Satan).

Good deeds doesn't wash away godless faith turned practice, we can't buy our way into the Kingdom of God. To refer to biblical verses about this I have a couple of good quotes:

Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Acts 8:18 When Simon (Magus, the Sorcerer, see the apocryf "Acts of Peter" for more on this character) saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19 and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin." 24 Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me." 25 When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.

[edit on 9/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

if everybody would just say "hey i'm gonna believe over here and you can believe over there, here or wherever." we wouldn't have jerusalem/palestine type conflicts.

what has debating religion ever achieved? nobody is gonna convince the other is right or wrong. i'm gonna burn in hell and im ok with that as long as i'm not reminded every time some smug arrogant christian or catholic comes along to ask me if "i believe in god". simple answer, NO I DON'T if you do or don't i don't care.

nobody on this earth is going to help us but ourselves and we should all work together, for when that day comes, TPTB will actually have a fight eh?

As-Salāmu `Alaykum

reply to post by okbmd


that is the good thing about America
all people can voice their opinions
even if it is tripe to others. And I'll have to
remind myself to send you down a bucket
of cool water.

best wishes

I'm sure some 'Christians' will go to hell, but it's patently absurd to suggest that it will be for simply being a Christian. Most people of faith - in my experience - are better people for it, and your behaviour and intent will be the deciding factors as to whether you make it to heaven or not.

When God connected to me in December, I thought it might be worth having a look at the Bible and Koran. One of the first things that jumped out at me upon starting the Bible was that the 'god' asking Abraham to sacrifice his son and fear him, is not the God that changed my life and delivered me the truth; not the God who's energy pulses through me; not the God that stands for truth, love and justice and all the other things we know in our hearts are important, but aren't cool to talk about.

Every person of faith's first allegiance should be to God - not to their church or others of the same religious denomination. Furthermore, any Catholic that's finding their faith tested by the recent scandals needn't worry. God is still real and He's still the same, you're issues should lie with the appointed authorities that supposedly speak for Him.

Every institution, just as every human being is neither beyond corruption nor redemption - priests and churches aren't exempt from these rules.

PS - If you're a Christian - or indeed a Jew - that has constructed a tabernacle in the wilderness and is generally carrying on using the book of Leviticus as a guide of worship, the author of this thread may have a point.

PLEASE READD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The BIBLE has been edited so much,you can't trust it anymore EXCEPT KJV. The most accurate bible is the KJV not the new kjv the Original KJV.

Hell is the grave,period.There will be no eternal hell as it has always been believed if you think about it, the book of Psalms is always saying God is merciful and a loving god.So why would he send the "unsaved" to hell for ever

The believers will be raptured but the unsaved will just die on "judgment day" And its the people in the churches who THINK they are saved are the one's who will get it the worst.

They are like the pharisees who act like they are perfect they pray in the streets ect to make them seem like they are good people and are going to heaven but yet in their heart they are totally different.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me

This is exactly what people are like in the church.

In the bible EVERY verse has a spiritually meaning AND a Physical meaning.So verses like where it talks about hell it says "where the worm dieth not" there is a spiritually meaning and physical you have to "compare scriptures with scriptures.

www.familyradio.com May 21st 2011 JUDGMENT Day

reply to post by AlreadyGone


PLEASE go to page 7 and read what i wrote its the one where it says "PLEASE READD!!!!!!"

reply to post by ATS123


Please, don't bring the KJV only argument here. It's only even further divisive and completely unfounded. There may be errors in other more current translations that aren't in the KJV, but the KJV itself was and is full of errors as it was translated, like every other version, with preconceived ideas in mind and an agenda.

To everyone: This thread has gone WAY off topic now. Might see ya around. Later and God Bless.

Originally posted by ATS123The BIBLE has been edited so much,you can't trust it anymore EXCEPT KJV. The most accurate bible is the KJV not the new kjv the Original KJV.

Originally posted by MykahelPlease, don't bring the KJV only argument here. It's only even further divisive and completely unfounded. There may be errors in other more current translations that aren't in the KJV, but the KJV itself was and is full of errors as it was translated, like every other version, with preconceived ideas in mind and an agenda.

This is a whole other subject and although the KJV is a great one, it too has many errors. Its basis was on the texts available at the time. It was a good one indeed but text found since then have shown the errors so to speak in it. I do not really have a favorite version per se. I would be very careful saying that though, maybe some reading on the actual history of the Bible would help you understand that.

Either way, the KJV will always have its place among the better translations.

reply to post by okbmd


Jesus is real. There are over 16 ancient "non-Christian" sources for Him walking the earth, doing miracles and rising from the dead.
Jesus spoke of Hell alot. It's a real place. That's why he mentioned Lazarus and the rich man. If there is a Heaven then there is a Hell. Hell is even going to be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

reply to post by texastig


OK please show us these emminent sources. And since you obviously mean that Hades and Gehenna etc. is the same thing, can you please tell us where YOU are going when you die if you don't end up in Hell, and cite some scripual proof please.