Christianity is a Conspiracy; ALL of you are going to HELL

reply to post by jimmyx


Hell does not exist as far as we know. Hell was part of the Norse religion, and was probably incorporated into Christianity to be kind to those who were already dead in respect of their legacies etc.

The Bible tells us of three concepts translated Hell in KJV and most other Bibles.

She'ol -----> First off is simply Death. The dirt beneath our feet so to speak, poetically given the sense of being a place where people lived on in a sense, which is translated Hell from Hebrew She'ol translated into Hades in the Greek texts used to further translate the NT into our languages.

Ben-Hinnom----> Then we have a Greek word translated from Hebrew, Gehenna (Heb. Ben-Hinnom) which is a physical place to the south west of Jerusalem where criminals were cremated and where they dumped their garbage to be burnt. At some times in Hebrew history people sacrificed children to Moloch there. This word is also translated Hell in most modern bibles. However it is to be understood as warnings against being caught by the Sanhedrin or the Romans in the time of Jesjuah ha Mesjiach, thus being judged as criminals and thereby being cremated in the Ben-Hinnom valley.

Lake of Fire ----> The third concept is the Lake of Fire, which is the ultimate Gehenna if you like. A place which God will create in the Judgement after the ressurection when the souls will be cas which have been so evil that God and his crew doesn't want them since they have been so evil God completely rebukes them. This word is also sometimes translated into Hell for "simplicity" reasons. The Lake of Fire is a great lava lake God will bring up from the deep in the very Endtime. It doesnot yet exist, other than as the occational volcanic eruptions which occur every now and then for natural reasons, not having to do anything with God's judgement naturally.

Hell ----> Up through the ages, people of the Church and others have figured out this word Hell is a great moneymaker, and a way to scare people senseless into complete submission to their politics and claims etc. However, biblically speakining there is no such thing as Hell. Like I said it comes from Norse Hel, which was the goddess of the underworld, who ruled over a place with the same name, or also Helheim. In Helheim Hel had a place she called Helvete, which was a burning fire where she killed cowards and murderers. As you see the Norse Hel is both similar and different. Therefore it can ot be used in our bibles to replace the completely different concepts translated into Hell. But still, TPTB within the Churches of this world aren't easilly influenced by whether truth or honesty, therefore things are like they are. Sorry to say.

[edit on 4/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

I have a strong Christian background and used to wholeheartedly believe in everything they commonly teach. Lately, I've been searching more and learning more and questioning more. I actually used to question a lot, but never to my pastor or church friends. I am out of that part of my life now. One thing came to me recently, this was not anytime I was thinking about religion or anything that I had been taught. It was this: the verse most quoted by Christians to unbelievers is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That sounds like if you don't believe, then you just die, and IF you believe THEN you live forever. We are taught you live forever either way, but it's either in everlasting torment in Hell or everlasting paradise in Heaven. It doesn't fit. Just a thought. This is an interesting thread, thanks to OP for posting it.

reply to post by helen670


The Bible "as-is" is an interpretation in it self, and I am not allowed to backwards engeneer it and source out what it really says? Get real. Even the oldest texts we have available are later translations, and the original sources are not available to us, though I hope some might be hidden within the Vatican archives, and possibly Ha-Sjatan has his sources in order, together with his counterpart, Jesjuah Ha Mesjiach. Possibly and probably the given originals in Aramaic (NT) and the Old Hebrew ones, no longer exists due to them being too radical and threatening to the PTB, and too easy for common folks to understand and thereby showed in plain sight why the Satans and Antichrists of this world represented by the Churches and a diverse bunch of govenrnments and powers working so far from Jesjuah's intentions and work that it's a damned shame.

Why I don't respect the theologians who has worked so hard to explain why the churches they represent is right? Well just because of that. Theology isn't a science and doesn't stand scrutiny towads Science (or "Zion's"). Had you rather been discussing from a linguistic and or religious science perspective I would probably agree more with you, for science is a whole lot less biased and people doesn't fear concepts which are improvable but requires submission and faith in irrational concepts directly in oposition to the texts they preach even, then we would probably agree on more things, and you yourself would probably have a better life, since what you'd preach and discuss would be based in undeniable or atleast peer reviewed theories and concepts. I don't generally agree with common theology since it basically contradicts the very basis of what they preach. There are a few sensible priests, monks and theological scholars, indeed, but had we removed all the others, it would be like reducing the population of USA and replaced it with the population of Malibu.

If you are to discuss theology, go to the appropriate forum in BTS where theology is discussed. Here we discuss given other contexts. You HAVE realised that haven't you? This is not a church although manty people use it as such. Which is a shame. We can't discuss here many times because of Zealots like yourself who always have to mix in doctrines and dogmas long proven wrong and godless even, being extrabiblical and without as much as a grain of provable truth in them from a sensible or scientific standpoint. So let's rather discuss what is presented here. If you feel hurt by what is said here, you should possibly take a break and do a reality check. Your opinion is naturally worth it's weight in gold, just like everyone else's, but don't come here with church dogma and expect people to take you serious unless these things are understandable and or at least faintly comprehencable.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


This is beyond ridiculous - I'm just not going to waste my precious time; it's not running away...!

See you when you've matured a bit.

Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
I have a strong Christian background and used to wholeheartedly believe in everything they commonly teach. Lately, I've been searching more and learning more and questioning more. I actually used to question a lot, but never to my pastor or church friends. I am out of that part of my life now. One thing came to me recently, this was not anytime I was thinking about religion or anything that I had been taught. It was this: the verse most quoted by Christians to unbelievers is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." That sounds like if you don't believe, then you just die, and IF you believe THEN you live forever. We are taught you live forever either way, but it's either in everlasting torment in Hell or everlasting paradise in Heaven. It doesn't fit. Just a thought. This is an interesting thread, thanks to OP for posting it.

I have a friend that uses that verse as her 'out' for accountability. She drinks excessively, gambles alot, doesn't repent for anything, i.e. lives her life the way she wants - yet if you question her about it, she will say that John 3:16 is all she needs to know.

I personally feel that is a lazy sinner's excuse. Yes, that verse is in the Bible, and it's true, but people seem to want to pull out the "good" parts, and use them out of context to suit their behavior or choices.

The Bible tells us that we are to repent and then turn from that sin, or sins. I don't believe in the catholic way of doing the 'father forgive me for I have sinned' and then bee bop out the church door to return to that same sin, or sins.

It's unbelievable how most of humanity has decided that they can change God's Word to something more "comfy" and that suits their lifestyle.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Yes I know the people like that too. In my old church, I have visited a few times since I left there 5 years ago, I am amazed that the people who say they love me and miss me, have never called me or anything. It's like they love me when I'm there, and they don't think of talking to me outside of the church. I know a lot of people there who do unethical things and it gives people an awesome reason to assume that God is the problem when it is actually Man's application of God's principles in a way that suits them, not how it is actually intended. I am learning a lot lately and I think I don't know what to think anymore!

reply to post by Ellie Sagan


I know exactly what you are talking about - most people have good intentions but then satan creeps in and sways those good intentions to not so good intentions.

I quit going to the church I was going to - it was one of those "mega mall" churches - but it was a great place, the people were awesome, the music was good.........

But I got to noticing a few things about the place.......


There were no hymn books.

There were no pews - just regular office chairs.

There was no "tote board" - who knows what the
offering total was.

The "church" was a huge brick building that had no
cross displayed anywhere.

I looked up and saw strobe and black lights circling
the ceiling.

One of the songs the band played was by Led Zepplin -
yes it was "Stairway To Heaven".

I asked about whether they opened the doors of the church
for salvation - the lady said "I'm sorry?". Once I explained
to her what I was asking, she said "Ohhh, you can track down
one of the aisle ushers and they will escort you to an office down
the hall - and a church member will come speak with you".

After the service (production) I had to take a trolly car in order to
get to my car.



Sad, but all very true.

I miss the old time country churches -
and the old time revivals.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

This is beyond ridiculous - I'm just not going to waste my precious time; it's not running away...!

See you when you've matured a bit.

Oh dear. LOL
You run away, still without pointing out a single thing I am supposed to have lied or been "rediculous" about, but you are "not running away"?? Haha, do you realise just how absurd that sounds? Hey, while you are running could you at least turn around a few times so I can see the tip of your tail? I might miss it you see....


[edit on 4/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by okbmdI'm glad you don't have time for this., because you are wearing me out with your redundant non-explanations. Most christians I know are like that though., they can't argue the point so they just say the same thing over and over and never back up what they say with anything other than the Bible or their own delusional 'jesus is gonna save me and you're going to hell if you don't believe it' fantasies.

I do not need to get deep in explanation to you, you already know everything so what is the point? You asked to be refuted, I did so quite easily I might add.

One more time VERY SIMPLE. I will give you words, read about them. Then maybe you can grasp.

Sheol (Hebrew), Ghenna, Hades, Tartarus, Abyss.....these are all similar but yet diffrenet.

* there are even more in depth definitions already listed in this thread by others.

Originally posted by okbmdAnd can you say that my non-religion is a religion in itself, and still hope to retain any form of credibility ? Please explain to me how you and all the other christians who say this ever hope to appear halfway intelligent to the rest of mankind ?

You mean I nailed that one? It needs no explanation

Originally posted by okbmdFor starters, I haven't told you anything that would even remotely give you an indication as to what my 'religion' might be . But your beliefs in fairy tales and archaic mythology cause you to presuppose that I am 'without' religion simply because I don't believe in yours.

Fairy tales and Mythology? How about going back further BEFORE, try Sumer maybe. I bet you have no religion. I could be wrong but I don't think so. How do I know this? Experience.

Originally posted by okbmdOne definition of religion : a set of beliefs concerning the cause , nature , and purpose of the universe ... (3) something one believes in or follows devotedly .

Another: The belief in none.

Originally posted by okbmdSo, you see here mr. wiseman , that I am not required to believe in or worhip your jesus or your bunny-rabbit or your satan clause ( oh, that was supposed to be santa ? ), in order to fall into the broad-and-vague category of religion .

Precisely, you are not required to worship Yeshua, nope. He doesn't force you at all. But.......the consequences, well, we are back to the point of this whole thread aren't we?

Originally posted by okbmdAccording to this definition, pretty much everyone on planet earth would fall into the religious category , so don't come at me again with this same ol' tired and lame statement that apparently feels good as it slides off the tongues of you christians .

You protestish too mucheth.

reply to post by edsinger


It is those of your type that caused me to post this thread.

You do nothing but talk in circles , never answer my questions with even the slightest hint of intelligence and you argue my thread into the ground with no arguement at all.

I made myself very clear in the OP. If you can't understand it , then you must be one of 'Jerry's kids' .

Maybe someone out their will pray for you to receive the gift of an intelligent mind .

Shouldn't you be in church today ?

Wow. Get busy and don't check the threads for a while and all Gehenna breaks loose. I'll get to refuting some of your claims later when I have the time and some of the resources I've studied on hand since I don't have them with me at the moment.

Just wanted to let you all know I was still here and still very much disagreeing with your claims.

Hope you all had a great Easter, the day we celebrate the resurrection of Yeshua from the grave.

Why do we always seem to end up hurting eachother in these threads here in CiR? I'm not innocent myself, I tend to be quite rough at times myself, afterall these threadshave mede me quite toughskinned, almost elephantish woahhh, scary, but atleast there are some people who are able to relate to topic and at the same time is willing to listen to other points of views. If Hell really exists in the spirit of Milton and Dante et al, the CiR forum must be one of it's levels, and quite deep down too I suppose. Please can't we get on with discussing instead of just knocking eachother in the heads with bats like christolithic missing links looking for cheap meat to bring home to the cubs? Honestly, do any of us really think it's correct to treat our enemies without respect and then run away when the dying horse no loger cries or breathes?

Comeon.... Let's rather have a nice and cosy civilised chat about Hell and eternal damnation instead, guys?

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Don't worry, those mega-churches that don't do anything for the advancement of the kingdom have received their glory. Soon enough the house-church is going to be the only way to meet together if our country is heading down the road I think it is. Looks like we will have to start living Christian lives in the streets and bringing the gospel to people instead of expecting them to come sit in our fancy buildings made for the church.

Be encouraged, you aren't alone.
Happy Easter.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Your last response does me a favour and demonstrates what I mean when I say you're being immature. Anyone with a bit of sense will see that.

I have a life to live, and there's plenty of interesting things to read about here on ATS without having to get into arguments with immature people like yourself. I retract my original comments, it was wrong to make such general accusations. I don't doubt you'll get much joy out of the illusion of victory.

Get a life, stop cuddling up to people who are posting threads aimed solely at generating controversy and argument. Say what you will, it bothers me no more - I have more important things to think about.

Maybe at some point we can have a more mature exchange; it won't be on this thread though.

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


You just couldn't leave the lethally wounded horse dying horse could you? You must be quite a Christian. I'm starting to like you. You kinda remindzzz me of my nightmares, and I honestly love them. Tell me when you are done being personal and straight up foolish playing with snakes and are ready to continue discussion in a civil manner, before a piano falls into your head from 40th floor and gives you a wakeup wondering what just happened. ----> What was so correct with KJV again and why on Earth does the modern English Bibles contain the word Hell?

BTW Noah was a Nubian, not a Somar.

[edit on 4/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


In the absence of 'controversy and arguement' then a very large part of the population of planet earth will continue to let the church dictate to them what it is that they desire for them to think and believe .

These people will continue to set back every sunday and let the clergy program them into the mindless slaves that they desire., and oh,don't forget to give us 10% of what you earned this week., after all, it takes money to finance our mind-control agenda .

There are those of us that adamantly refuse to surrender our minds to your satanic masters of manipulation , and the best that you can do is call us antichrist and christian-bashers.

I don't give a rats ass what any of you call me . I've never played well with others and I refuse to fall in line with your paganistic rituals and belief system.

This aint no meely-mouth forgive me father for I have sinned turn the other cheek matter. Quit being a slave and stand up and be a man .

Stop being a victim of the mind-rape agenda .

reply to post by okbmd


"These people"....

Had you said some people, I would have agreed...however "these people" tends to include me. We don't blindly give, but we give...shingles to repair a roof cost money...even at discount rates.

Food for free meals prepared by our church costs money, and we have a power bill to pay...

Trips for our youth, books, gas for the van to a mission project all cost money....

it sounds as if you have had some bad experiences with so-called churches.

We are called to serve...and we donate time, effort, and money to do so... not blindly and helter skelter, but responsibly and faithfully.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


And that is part of what I am trying to say. I too, help the homeless , do odd jobs and repairs for the elderly at no cost , volunteer at the homeless mission , and do my best to treat my fellow man as best I can .

And I am sick of being told that good works won't get me into heaven . I am sick of being told that I am going to hell simply because I choose to hold different beliefs .

And I am sick of being accused of bashing christians every time I decide to voice my opinion on the Bible and those who scream that it is the only way .

What do you call it when christians relentlessly tell someone such as myself that we are doomed to eternal punishment for refusing to embrace their beliefs ? Is that 'non-christian' bashing , or what ?

If paradise is going to be populated with this type of people, then I will do everything I can to make sure I miss the flight .

reply to post by okbmd


I've had a few dreams from Heaven and it is the strangest place in the world, I promise you. We or they do no longer have sex to get pregnant, infact noone there gets pregnant anymore, some even lack genitals and such, and how do I know? They wre all naked Eden style in one dream I had, and I was scared senseless, for I too was naked, and walking in the fields with nothing on with my kind of body wasn't pleasant I tell you. In another dream I had I saw how babies were born. I was in a livingroom, and a couple of people, both with mixed male/female features sat by the table, and immediately rose up when I appeared (and yes, they were actually wearing cloathes), and they showed me around the house. I saw no direct lighting sources in the house, other than the things that baffeled me the most. They were very proud to show me this: In a big tank filled with liquid reaching from an aluminium like base up to the roof nearly, or about two meters tall, and I can guess about two feet in diameter, like a vertical tube. It was filled with liquid like I said and small bubbles rose and there ere lights inside, changing from one colour to the other very slowly, I didn't realise it first, because I couldn't keep my eyes off what was inside. A growing foetus, about four or five months I guess, complete with mother's load and life-cord and everything. And he smiled so gently, and looked so peaceful, almost opening his eyes, or atleast that's how I remember it, looking at us from the inside. It's one of the best dreams I ever had, and when I woke up I nearly cried my heart out wanting to go back to that world, since it was so peaceful and right. I understood they had been waiting for the right to be parents a long time, and had finally had their whish granted. It made me realise how we are all like beasts and animals these days, while these people in what I believe or understood was the New Jerusalem, all live in peace and harmony, and their love was so genuine and true. I trust these dreams and my being stuck here in this ongoing apocalypse of wrath and dishonour makes me feel ill and sick to my stomach sometimes, and I so much whish I could go back or wake up one day and I was there. It's been a while since I had such dreams. Which is a shame really, they used to give me new energy, but I guess life goes on, and I will be stuck here for yet some time. I saw a spark of heaven and I really wish we would all just learn and develop our mindsets, get rid of the agendas we follow these days which are so money and power minded.

[edit on 5/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by okbmdIt is those of your type that caused me to post this thread.

And it is those of your type in which I worry about. Pride in one's self and a non belief in something higher, a Creator. Its sad but a result of humanist educational systems of the last 50 years.

Originally posted by okbmdYou do nothing but talk in circles , never answer my questions with even the slightest hint of intelligence and you argue my thread into the ground with no arguement at all.

I don't have time to spend researching the many things I have read on the EXACT subject of this thread to try an convince a hardened heart. I will say this very simply one more time. You asked for a rebuttal and that is what you got. You claimed how those of the Church could not refute you and yet I did very simply. If you are too dense to see it, being blind is a true sign of a hardened heart.

Originally posted by okbmdSeveral years ago, I wrote on essay on this topic. I used the Bible to substantiate it then also. It was circulated amongst several churches,pastors,deacons,congre-
gations,etc.

Not one single person was able to refute it . It was, conveniently, said to be a 'gray' area., although it is a central teaching within the church.

Originally posted by okbmdI made myself very clear in the OP. If you can't understand it , then you must be one of 'Jerry's kids' .

Ah, assume my capability of understanding. Whatever....Personaly the 'Jerry's kids' shows your intellect.

Originally posted by okbmdMaybe someone out their will pray for you to receive the gift of an intelligent mind .

Well, coming from you, it really worries me..

Originally posted by okbmdShouldn't you be in church today ?

I was, 7AM sharp, I just love Easter. It IS my favorite day. I just wish I had the will that those early Christians did, even those that did not witness the Resurrection. The war was won that day long ago, there are many battles to be fought, but the final outcome is already decided.

Originally posted by okbmdThese people will continue to set back every sunday and let the clergy program them into the mindless slaves that they desire., and oh,don't forget to give us 10% of what you earned this week., after all, it takes money to finance our mind-control agenda .

You, right there show your ignorance. A tithe is not a demand. I get to say where my 'gift' goes. What you don't get is according to my belief I own nothing , God gives me what I have to be a steward with, the 10% is returned tenfold.

Originally posted by okbmdAnd I am sick of being told that good works won't get me into heaven . I am sick of being told that I am going to hell simply because I choose to hold different beliefs .

Well, it is not a gray area. It is black and white. You can not earn your way to Heaven. It is a gift. Fruits are a result of the acceptance of that gift. Guess what, you cant even choose, He chooses you.

Educate yourself more about Christianity before you go barking and trying to intimidate the 16 year olds on this board.