Please refrain from flogging or stoning me until after you read what I have to say.

I expect that this thread will incite the 'religious' mobs to a feverish pitch. I look forward to it.

Let me start with saying that I have nothing personal against Christians or anyone who holds other beliefs. It is not my intention here to belittle any of you solely on whatever it is that you hold to be true. All I ask is that you use that same standard when replying to this thread, for I have the same rights as you do when it comes to choosing what to believe.

I am not here to condemn anyone based solely on what I believe. I am simply putting forth information that can be verified, should anyone choose to step outside of the box of 'blind-faith' to research it for themselves.

What I say here will not be based on any system of 'faith' , but rather, evidence that can be easily found with minimal effort. So , as difficult as it will be for some of you , please do not present your arguments with nothing but faith as substantiation .

Feel free to use the Bible to counter what I have to say. I look forward to that also . Keep in mind tho' , that Jesus did not write the Bible. The Bible will be a text that I will also use to 'cross-examine' your presentations, so be cautious about claiming that I 'have no proof' .

I sincerely ask that all of you do not enter into this debate with the "gnashing-of-teeth' mentality.

Several years ago, I wrote on essay on this topic. I used the Bible to substantiate it then also. It was circulated amongst several churches,pastors,deacons,congre-
gations,etc.

Not one single person was able to refute it . It was, conveniently, said to be a 'grey' area., although it is a central teaching within the church.

Let's get started.

In the New Testament, the word 'hell' comes from the Greek word 'Gehenna' . Gehenna is derived from 'Geh Ben Hinnom' ( valley of Hinnon ).

This is a place where Jeremiah said the children of Judah " burn their sons and daughters in the fire " ( Jer. 7:31 ) .

The Hinnon Valley was a depression located just to the southwest of Jerusalem, where children were sacrificed in idolatrous rites to Molech.

It was also , later used as the city dump . Archaeologist Eilat Mazar says the site may have been a crematorium.

In the Old Testament, the word 'Sheol' is translated as 'hell' 31 times, translated as 'the grave' 31 times, and translated as 'the pit', 3 times .

The literal translation of 'sheol' is the 'unseen'. All those who have died have gone to sheol ( hell , the grave , the pit )., they are 'unseen' .

'Sheol' was used to describe 'national judgements'... the vanishing of nations .

In the New Testament, the equivalent of sheol is 'hades' ( 11 times ). Hades= Hell in the New Testament . The correct translation of 'hades' is 'the unseen' . This word was also used in the context of 'national judgements' .

Our current conception of hades (hell), has it's roots in Greek mythology, not the Bible . Let it be noted also, 'hell' in English, is derived from the Anglo-Saxon definition meaning ' to conceal' ., 'to cover' .

The word literally meant 'to cover'. Hence the word 'helmet'...to 'cover' the head .

This is further substantiated by the use of the word in the middle ages . Farmers were said to 'hell' (cover) their potatoes to preserve them during the winter .

Again, 'Gehenna' (hell) was a valley outside of Jerusalem where children were sacrificed in rituals to the god Molech , a place where rebellious jews were slaughtered and the city dump.

So, let's get this party started . Be advised that I will only reply to those with serious inquiries and will leave the rest of you to rant that I am the anti-christ and going to hell .

We are ALL going to the grave., we are ALL going to be UNSEEN after we die., We are ALL going to be CONCEALED/COVERED once they bury us .

WE ARE ALL GOING TO HELL ...






Next : The church is the anti-christ , and God is all in your head ...

You are correct in defining one interpretation of hell as the grave, love the way you incite folks. However, if all we're doing here is inciting people and taunting them over word play, what is the point of the thread?

The real question is "Who will stay in the grave/sheol/hades? And who will go to the definition of hell as displayed in Revelations 20, and go to the "Great, White Throne Judgement" to be judged worthy of heaven?

Frankly, although correct in your use of hell/sheol/hades...you should be ashamed at "pulling the chain" of those "babes in Christ" that still feed on the "milk" and not the "meat" of the Bible.

Well, if we presuppose that the context of the word "hell" you're using is to simply mean that we are going to the "grave," we are going to be "covered," and that we are going to be "unseen," as demonstrated by the various root definitions of the word, then I'm in total agreement. There are, however, many different modern interpretations aside from those early root definitions which is why I stand by in eager anticipation, popcorn in hand

Well done OP. It is sad that most religious folks are unable to rid the brainwashing regardless of anything you try to show them. This thread is NOT some sly fabrication, or some Satanic deception, it is simply the TRUTH of the word in its original meaning. How hard it is to understand that the meaning of the word for which we got the term Hell, has been fabricated into COMPLETE NONSENSE. And this applies to nearly every word in the Bible. The real sheep are the ones living by blind faith without questioning anything. Very sad.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
You are correct in defining one interpretation of hell as the grave, love the way you incite folks. However, if all we're doing here is inciting people and taunting them over word play, what is the point of the thread?

The real question is "Who will stay in the grave/sheol/hades? And who will go to the definition of hell as displayed in Revelations 20, and go to the "Great, White Throne Judgement" to be judged worthy of heaven?

Frankly, although correct in your use of hell/sheol/hades...you should be ashamed at "pulling the chain" of those "babes in Christ" that still feed on the "milk" and not the "meat" of the Bible.

Why is testing the validity of the bible always "inciting folks"?



Seriously...

That's quite interesting!

I'm Muslim and Cehennem (G-hen-am) means hell! Where as Jannah in Arabic and Cennet in Turkish means Paradise.

I smell connections, indeed..but that wouldn't be too surprising to me.

- K

There's more than one misinterpretation/ mistranslation of the Bible, yo. Not to mention the editing, and all these new (what has been called watered down and worse) editions... And yet, everyone in the faith sits back and not so much as blinks about it.

Doncha ever wonder.... just *once* that what everyone else is saying might be true??? Does it not cross any of your minds that if this IS true, the entire religion is gonna find themselves up the creek without paddle, boat OR creek??

Like one of the other posters said- Doesn't matter what's said to these people. Ignorance is truly bliss, huh.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by wylekat]

[edit on 2-4-2010 by wylekat]

Yeah your right, when i die i'll be buried, covered and unseen. Or i might be cremated yet.Not really bothered which to be honest. My soul though, which currently animates this physical vessel, will move on as will everybody's. Where it moves to, will be determined by the almighty.

S&F from me.

I always love some new information and mistranslation really shows how information can be tweaked or used for whatever purposes the user deems best toward his or her ultimate goal.

I have my ideas concerning religion but your explanation of hell is awesome. Bravo!

I've always wondered towards conspiracy and religion and have done much research. I still haven't conclusively proven religion to be a tool of government but you never know what will be uncovered.

I'm not going to hell.

I will be seen - Just as God sees His Son, God sees me.

I'm more than that sparrow that God sees fall because Jesus carries me.

And Jesus will carry you.

It's so simple.

It's only a matter of faith... And love...

The people who try to complicate it - are either afraid, or ignorant...

And I mean that in the kindest way possible...

Peace is right there for you to reach out and take, for you, forever...

Take it...

peace

I think that what might be missing here is a comment from a Christian who actually agrees with the OP. I've heard all this before, and it's hardly indicative of a conspiracy (I say this with the utmost respect). Yes, the true meaning of the words in the Old Testament was exactly as you described it. The Jews (who still refer to the OT as their Holy Book) don't believe in a spiritual hell (please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware I'm correct in saying that).

The New Testament (and Old, come to think of it) was/were predominantly translated into Latin & English by people who were concerned with presenting the information as a very effective means of retaining the power they had started to accumulate. Even the earlier Greek copies were probably heavily edited, though they were not decided upon by the Council of Nicea as is the common misconception (cheers Dan Brown).

One thing to bear in mind is that Jesus didn't just refer to the word 'Hell' - he described it as a physical/spiritual abode, which people run the risk of entering if they behave in certain fashions.

My personal feeling is that the use of Gehenna was in a sense as an allegorical metaphor - everyone hearing the word at the times of the text's writing would know the association of that place with wickedness and suffering. Gehenna/ Hades were used frequently as a means of describing a condition of separateness from God.

Jesus also told a parable about a rich man who went to a literal hell after death, as a result of his abhorrent treatment of the poor. Then there's the parable about plucking out one's eye if it causes you to sin, to avoid being cast into the fires of hell.

I'm confident (for various long-winded reasons I don't have time to go into in this comment) that the actual context of the parables wouldn't have been changed, and so we can assume that when Jesus spoke in such a way he was literally issuing a warning about certain afterlife states that one can find oneself entering into, if evil (in various measures) was practiced by a person during their lifetime.

Note also that the demons were apparently terrified of being cast into hell 'before the allotted time' - indicating a foreknowledge of the literal torment that awaited them after this old hologram gets wound up.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth. I'd love to go into this in more depth, but I have to put the kids to bed now.. Take care people.

I'm pretty sure there are a number of things in the bible that are misconstrued or falsified with ease. At a young age, my grandparents tried forcing their religion onto me. Instead of accepting it on my own terms, I would sit in the back of the endless rows of this church and listen to the droning voice of the pastor, who at times would burst into a fit of adrenalin, shouting and spewing verses to his ship, only so they would respond with resonating, loud cheers and chants.

The youth group always seemed awkward to me. When I was in their company, it seemed as if they were intimidated by me, because of the way I carried myself, wore hats to church ( Didn't know there were rules on attire ), and simply spoke my mind on certain situations. They never tried to accept me, and always seemed very fake. After a few years, I ended up not going to church any more and every time I run into these people, they try to lure me back, but how so? Through fear, guilt, and horrible lessons.

"Please ... please! Come to church and find his light, before something happens!"

I, at one time received a house visit from the youth pastor whom I was cool with, and one of the youth representatives, whom I never really got along with. Now, the Youth pastor is talking to us and asking how we are doing, so i'm thinking to myself ... this is cool, they just wanna see how thing are. Said thoughts were completely erased when the youth representative sprung into action with a speech that had to be thought up and rehearsed ... mind you, the stupidity of this speech could have been delegated to a group of 3rd graders.

He asked us if we had ever tried a sandwich with ketchup, mustard, relish, and some other crap. After we obviously said no, he assured us that it tasted amazing, then proceeded to tell us how trying something of the unknown would be easier with God by your side. How that related to the sandwich, I feel is quite ridiculous.

Anyways, to make a long story short ... after that "visit" from the youth, I made sure to distance myself from church. To the church people, you guys do what makes you happy but the bottom line is, the bible was written by men. Men are a corrupt people, no matter how perfect they may paint the picture of their exterior lives. Pastor's argue with their wives, curse, shout, cheat, and can even manipulate. Your next door neighbor has potential to do the same. What you should take from the bible is the message of positivity that it tries to portray.

There is positive and there is evil in this world. That is all that matters. If you do good, then you will receive goodness. Religion is trivial. Somebody who is a good Samaritan in every aspect isn't condemned to hell because he didn't put his faith onto a single person that an ancient, and partially edited text states one should. And if that is the case? Then religion is hypocrisy in every aspect, if they would ignore the goodness of a person's actions and lifestyle, because he didn't choose to follow a certain flock.

Sorry - when I said 'agrees with the OP', I meant to some extent, not entirely. My bad.

pretty much.

religion is a tool, as the story in eden goes they got tempted by the serpent.

what if thats it, we went from not thinking about things to thinking and over analyzing things.

the bible is a book of parabols and its our duty to translate them into what we think is right.

the book says alot and it can be takin in many ways but i feel completly it was made as a way to keep people docile, keep you from feeling and to keep you all like cattle, heads down and even when you get led to the slaughter house you still follow through till the blade stikes you.

its human nature to want to kill, the universe is hostile so impossible devour to survive, so it is....so its always been.

dont let the book keep your true human emotions held in.
(im not saying to go kill im saying just dont be a slave)