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To the followers of the Constitution - Time to go Underground

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posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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It's a sad thing to have the one thing that made you proud to be an American being treated as it no longer matters, i speak of the constitution and bill of rite's.

ME being from the UK no just what it's like to have new anti people laws put in place when we the people were not even asked if we wanted these new "safe guards" that do nothing but protect the interests of the high'r up's.

i wish i was with ya USA! well i am in spirit, FIGHT FOR YOUR RITE'S (to party) no to many people all over are just laying down and letting this sort of thing happen WHEN THEY COULD BE MARCHING.

good luck USA. i friend of yank,stealthy.




posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by InterestedDoubter

Just more paranoid hateriot rhetoric?

OOOooooo the left is out to get us!!! I've been hearing this idiocy for years now. You people are still in your trailers with your guns and the government check coming every week.


I find it interesting that you criticize him for "hate rhetoric" and then you immediately use the statements "In your trailers" and "the government check coming every week".

You just called them Redneck Welfare.


I guess you are full of hate rhetoric too huh? You seem really hateful to me. Maybe you should listen to yourself and follow your own preaching?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by stealthyaroura
 


Thank you and do not worry my friend across the pond.

We will win this one. It is our destiny.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:56 AM
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Maybe somebody should actually do something crazy and back up their claims on this website. I know that's impossible for most of you and that's why you're here. I've been asking over and over to be shown what part of the constitution has been broken or what justifies this idiotic paranoia to which there's just more rhetoric and hateriot crap. I've listened to it for over a year now and I'm sick of it.

Also I stand by claim. Has the government come and taken any of your trailers, guns, or god-forbid make any sort of attempt to educate any of you people? No? Then what is the problem?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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The constitution has not been violated with the recent legislation.

The 9th and 10th amendments limit the power of congress to only those things enumerated by the constitution.

The Commerce Clause..
Article 1, Section 8 grants Congress the power ..
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

The Neccessary and Proper Cluase
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 18
The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

In the instances of producing/selling illiegal drugs, the civil rights act and many other cases that have made there way to the supreme court over the past century, the court has consistenly interpreted the combination of the "commerce Clause" and the "neccessary and proper" clause in favor of the government for commercial and non-commercial activities that while might be initially a state level issue, still has national implications.

The constitution also empowers congress to pass and enforce laws for the "general welfare" of it's people.

Bottom line...
Yes...a case can be made that the recent HCR legislation is unconstitutional....just as cases were made opposing the Civil Rights Act on the same legal premise.

But the supreme court is unlikely to overturn a century of precedence on the matter and most legal scholars believe their interpretation of the constitution to be correct.

I believe passioantely in the constitution.

I and the majority of legal scholars from both sides of the political spectrum also believe the HCR legislation is soundly constitutional.

Health Care Reform And The Misinterpretation Of The Commerce Clause
mediamattersaction.org...

Analysis: Health-care law is probably constitutional under Commerce Clause, say legal scholars
www.stlbeacon.org...

More on the Constitutionality of Health Care Reform



Simon Lazarus, Public Policy Counsel to the National Senior Law Center, published an Issue Brief with the American Constitution Society last month taking on the various claims that a health insurance mandate (in the Senate version of health care reform) and tax incentives encouraging the purchase of health insurance (in the House version) are unconstitutional. We've covered the issue here, here, and here.

Here's Lazarus on the claim that requiring health insurance amounts to regulating non-activity--one of the more popular arguments that health care reform exceeds Congress's Commerce Clause powers:

This "inactivity" is empty and verbal gimmickry. Individuals who go without health insurance--if health insurance is available to them and affordable, a contingency that the legislation goes to great lengths to eliminate--are not "doing nothing." They are deciding to put off paying for health insurance and for health care--because they believe that they won't need it until some future date, or because they recognize that, one way or the other, through hospital emergency room care or other means, necessary care will be available if serious illness or an accident strikes.

Brief at 8-9.

Lazarus concludes by putting the issue in a larger context:

If, as opponents claim, the burden of mandatory health contributions was--in principle--oppressive and unfair, Medicare, and for that matter Social Security taxes would raise constitutional questions no less if these landmark statutory programs were cast as regulations of interstate commerce. In fact, of course, since 1937, such questions have never been raised either in the courts or in Congress. The reason is simple: most people regard these mandatory contributions--in light of what they expect to receive in exchange--as a bargain not a burden.


lawprofessors.typepad.com...

I am actually not opposed to the legal challenges that are occuring in opposition to the HCR legislation. It is what our legal system is for.

Do I think it will fail? Yes. rightly so...not because I support HCR, which I do, but because it is a legally faulted argument.

Do I think the legal challenges are politically motivated? Hell yes...does anyone doubt it?

One thing is clear though...anyone shouting that this law is unequivically unconstitutional either has an agenda or is drinking the kool-aide of those who have an agenda. The AGs that filed suit, even they know better. they are making a political case and very little more than that.

Let them challenge it....and at the same time challenge social security, medicare, the civil rights act etc. Go for it. Just another chapter in this circus of insanity and the courts will sort it out.


I'm sorry...where folks actually looking for a legitimate discussion?

Back to the "end of america" and "revolution" and "Obama is a socialist" Blah Blah posts.



[edit on 1-4-2010 by maybereal11]

[edit on 1-4-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by stealthyaroura
 


Thank you and do not worry my friend across the pond.

We will win this one. It is our destiny.


lol win what? trying to get Your president impeached for not satisfying your needs? Guess what sweetheart, life is tough, better get used to it.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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I have noticed specific people calling for or suggesting taking up arms against your legally elected government. In my opinion your constitution is a great document and is intact.

It almost makes me think there might be agent provocateurs out there, trying to inspire violence.

en.wikipedia.org...

Traditionally, an agent provocateur (plural: agents provocateurs, French for "inciting agent(s)") is a person employed by the police or other entity to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal act. More generally, the term may refer to a person or group that seeks to discredit or harm another by provoking them to commit a wrong or rash action.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by InterestedDoubter

Originally posted by Logarock
Oh they are working on it my friend. The lefties believe althought they dont talk about it in public, that there are no such things as inalienable rights granted by the creator. The thought makes them sick.

Some my think I have come to this conclusion by deductive reasoning but indeed I have heard it out of their own mouths. They also see christains and parts of the consitution as the biggest road block to their ends. Heard this out of thier own faces as well.


Got proof? No? Just more paranoid hateriot rhetoric?

OOOooooo the left is out to get us!!! I've been hearing this idiocy for years now. You people are still in your trailers with your guns and the government check coming every week. So, what is this leftist agenda you people keep rambling about? Especially since you people can't seem to stop rambling about how you control the media now and you had your President who failed miserably. What is the leftist agenda?

Okay I'll tell you straight your face. The leftists are out to get you. You better sell all your belongings and run to the hills and for the love of christ watch out for conspiracy websites. That's where the evil leftists congregate.


Dang son you offer little reason to talk with you. Dont live in a trailer.

Do I have proof? Yes I went to one of our fine state run educational institutions and listened to openly marxist and progressive professors talk about it all the time.

I have first hand exsposure to the left agenda having been a student of such. Now put it in a pipe......



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by stealthyaroura
 


Thank you and do not worry my friend across the pond.

We will win this one. It is our destiny.


lol win what? trying to get Your president impeached for not satisfying your needs? Guess what sweetheart, life is tough, better get used to it.


Um no?

Try campaign finance reform?

At the very least, that would be a start...

The President is a figurehead, a public relations representative.

You were quick to condemn because you do not know me, that is probably why all of your assumptions about me are so wrong.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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I will shed my blood, every last drop, and sacrifice my life so that the children of tomorrow can experience their lives under the American Constituition.

“In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson

Semper Paratus!


[edit on 1-4-2010 by seasoul]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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Anyone thinking anyone but the government wants conflict, you are wrong.

The government has been given its presentments. It can now make a choice. To follow the Constitution or not. It is the in the hands of the government now.

We will hear their reply shortly.

If anyone has not seen it yet. Here is a breakdown to what has been given them. It is a lot of info. But you should read into it. You are more than likely going to need to know what the Constitution actually means. And learning Common Law would not hurt either.

April 19 1775 transitioning to April 19 2010


OP, nice heartfelt and honorable speech. I am proud to call you my countryman.

[edit on 4/1/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


So the opinion of one college professor is what caused you to believe there's an entire leftist conspiracy that's out to destroy and subvert you, mom, apple pie, and the American way? You know if you took one more class in college you would've gotten different perspectives and realized that's just one guy right? Ah hell... it's just easier to be paranoid and want to pull the trigger isn't it?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by davec0021
I have noticed specific people calling for or suggesting taking up arms against your legally elected government. In my opinion your constitution is a great document and is intact.

It almost makes me think there might be agent provocateurs out there, trying to inspire violence.


Agreed. It's called the GOP. "taking up arms against" our "legally elected government" is their only remaining avenue of regaining power since they have lost both credibility and power via the democratic process.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by InterestedDoubter
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Where were you eight years ago big guy? Remember the big election frauds? It's nice to know if I punch one of you people in the face it'll take eight years before you get mad.


Umm I was bitching about this 8 years ago?

When the election was stolen....

Trust me I've been here saying this for decades...


The
election was stolen! Hurry dudes back to the mothership! The are moving voting machines around the nite before the election! Oh yea the same guys that blew up the dike down in the Big Easy! And Bush flew a UFO into the WTC!
Cry me a river...



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by seasoul
I will shed my blood, every last drop, and sacrifice my life so that the children of tomorrow can experience their live's under the American Constituition.

“In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson

Semper Paratus!



[edit on 1-4-2010 by seasoul]


Don't worry man, you won't have to shed any blood.

See our opposition is composed entirely of liars and Cowards.

They will not stand in our way. They will scamper like cockroaches when the time comes.

We won't have to fire a shot. That is how cowardly these pro-government authoritarians are.

They are pro-government because they want the government to oppress others for them, on their behalf.

This is the basis of their cowardice.

That is also why you will not face any opposition hardly at all when we take this nation back.

Our enemy is scared of true confrontations.
You know the type where the playing field is level?

Yeah cheaters always hate a level playing field.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by InterestedDoubter
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Where were you eight years ago big guy? Remember the big election frauds? It's nice to know if I punch one of you people in the face it'll take eight years before you get mad.


Umm I was bitching about this 8 years ago?

When the election was stolen....

Trust me I've been here saying this for decades...


The
election was stolen! Hurry dudes back to the mothership! The are moving voting machines around the nite before the election! Oh yea the same guys that blew up the dike down in the Big Easy! And Bush flew a UFO into the WTC!
Cry me a river...



Right you have no argument of value so you make fun?

Grats on losing the debate so quickly.

Go ridicule someone else, thanks.


This is a fine example of the type of BS we have to deal with.

I say "X bothers me" reply from idiot " Than you are obviously a Y and Z hater!"

It's ludicrous. Im growing tired of the utter bs. Are people really so uneducated they cannot even hold a debate anymore?

Ridicule is their main weapon these days apparently.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by muzzleflash]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


First off - Love the Captain America shield in the avatar - kudos...second and most importantly: I think that you are going at this the wrong way....don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you feel about the direction that the Federal Government is headed, but the path you're advocating is not one that is viable. I think I may have a workable alternative for you. Forget any kind of insurrection or rebellion, armed or otherwise, because the monitoriing capabilities of the Government makes these options close to impossible - you'd never be able to muster enough support or gain any momentum before you were shut down. These same capabilities make "going underground" nearly impossible as well - the ONLY workable alternative in my mind is to go the opposite route. Work within the framework of the Law to accomplish your goals - The idea is to gather people of like mind who wish to live in a community that is governed by the Principles of the Constitution - a place that reflects the traditional values of the American system. This does not have to involve armed rebellion to become a reality, it does not have to discriminate against any racial group, nor does it have to be secretive. The plan would be to OVERTLY advertise for people who believe as you do to MOVE TO A PARTICULAR STATE. Ideally the State would need to be relatively small and have the following: an already large "conservative" base, it must have at least one seaport, a good industrial base, plentiful natural resources (Timber, water, etc.), already collects State Income Tax, and must be agriculturally viable and stable (South Carolina might be a great option). The aim of the plan would be to populate the state with like-minded individuals so that this group would be a voting majority. Using this approach, this group would naturally - and within the Law - take control of the local and State Governments. Once this has been accomplished, the process of secession from the US and the formation of a new, Soveriegn State can begin. Your first step would be to build a website to attract those interested in your movement - you might be surprised at who responds to your idea. You have a unique opportunity right now because of all the anti-goverment sentiment (tea-partiers, etc.) caused by the actions of this Government. You want to guard against inflammatory rhetoric that will get you "on the radar" of government agencies tasked with protecting the safety of US citizens - think "Gandhi" instead of "Guns blazing" and you MAY be able to achieve your ends. Once your movement gathers momentum, you will be infiltrated. Guard against paranoia, but be prepared for those agents that have infiltrated to cause trouble and embarrassment for your movement - its what the Government does, don't worry - its okay. You are being monitored now, and will be monitored through the process. You will be harrassed by the government, you will be ridiculed in the media - again, this is what the Government does - its okay. Be prepared, gather NON-VIOLENT support, keep your non-violent message at the top of mind, understand that your goal is to live free and keep going until you accomplish what you want. Hell, I might even move there myself ! Now this is just the big picture, there are one hell of alot of details to be worked out - but you will attract people who have the knowledge and experience to take care of those things. Good Luck !



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Wow more hateriot propaganda, good luck with your civil war behind the keyboard there snowflake. You people can't even justify why you feel the way you feel. Seriously, I triple dog dare you to do something about what you perceive to be happening... something aside from tapping nonsensical garbage on a conspiracy website talking about how tough and brave hateriots are.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by InterestedDoubter
reply to post by Logarock
 


So the opinion of one college professor is what caused you to believe there's an entire leftist conspiracy that's out to destroy and subvert you, mom, apple pie, and the American way? You know if you took one more class in college you would've gotten different perspectives and realized that's just one guy right? Ah hell... it's just easier to be paranoid and want to pull the trigger isn't it?


No no son your not listening. Whos said one? You said one because thats probably all the poli sci you took at community college.

How about one of my profs an open and educating Marxist landed a job as head of poli sci at Wisconsin State Univercity. Just for starters.

Your idea about taking more classes...eventually getting other perspectives is NOT what is the reality at a lot of places. I have to ask if you ever attended college at all.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Logarock]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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I may eat my words later but I feel like most of the threads I've been reading are filled with paranoia. It's a little depressing. I'm not oblivious to what's going on in the world but I'm not gonna hide or prepare for a "battle." Do you really believe they're gonna come bashing down our doors and haul us off to camps? I am going to enjoy being with my children and family and make the best of my life. Look what is happening...people starting militias and threatening people in government. It is sad what is happening. Everyone wants freedom and peace but talk about fighting and hiding out underground. Doesn't sound too peaceful to me.

Also, if someone wants to start a battle of words with me, don't bother, I just stated my opinion and thats that.



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