Situation in Gaza/Palestine/Israel; what are your thoughts?

I have been wanting to write this one for a while now, but you know the backlash for having such an outlandish idea that Palestinians are not terrorists. Just a people who are defending their territory, like if Russia decided to invade the states; would you fight or stand down? I think you would defend your land IMO, and the same goes with them!

I am not a supporter of war; I prefer diplomacy over any kind of military incursion. But I’ll tell you what I think, and you can go on bashing this thread to pieces, but I’ll stand my ground, and have my word heard. There shouldn’t be war on the Gaza strip! They are not terrorists, they are suppressed people pushed into a corner!

Well I came to this conclusion pretty quick, and I stand by it because the ones behind the demonizing are the main stream media outlets in this country. (WHO ARE OWNED BY THE MIC) Making these people look like the villains, making them look less than human. Spitting rhetoric like they want to force Islam down our throats. They don’t, they just want to live, and let live. But what does a subordinate group do when they are pushed into a corner? Forced to make a move because of their land being occupied!

For example; one of my classes there is a student in my class, a mother who was born and raised in the Gaza strip. She was sharing her experience with how the situation in Palestine, and Gaza, are being twisted by the media. She was telling the class on how the Palestinians are subordinates, and are a suppressed people. They are treated with disrespect, and are always called terrorists. For what? Being of Muslim faith? Yes, unfortunately.

Lots of anger, because of the label, and lies.
Yet she condemns the violence, she wishes that they could share the land, but Israel won’t have it. They want to keep expanding their borders, pushing these people out of their land, a land they have occupied for centuries! No one seems to be sticking up for them. They are forgotten, and demonized. These people are only defending their land from the invaders. As my first example in the first paragraph. IF Russia or another country invaded, wouldn’t you defend your land, or stand down? I think you would fight for your land!

I was saddened by her story. The devastation that occurs over there is rarely ever mentioned in the MSM. The situation gets ignored, and the story is always one sided, usually supporting Israel. I don’t hate Israel, or condemn what they’re doing, but IMO they are asking for trouble, constantly pushing these people to do what they’re doing: FIGHTING BACK! What happens when you corner an animal? The animal will fight for its life the best way it can. Poke the beast, you’ll get BIT!

Question FOR ATS members and you lurkers out there!

What do you think of this situation? Do you think it’s fair? If it was you over there instead of her, would you support this, or would you oppose it?

How would you approach the situation differently?

Do you think the Palestinians deserve to be going through what they’re going through?

do you support Israel, or not? Why?

EDIT: a few grammar burps fixed.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by ugie1028]

What do you think of this situation? Do you think it’s fair? If it was you over there instead of her, would you support this, or would you oppose it?

I think the situation over there should of never began in the first place. If I was her, in that situation, witnessing and growing up there, of course I would have a different view since I would be experiencing it first-hand. Of course I would not support it because if a country did that to mine, there would be hell to pay!

How would you approach the situation differently?

If I was a leader on both sides, there should be an agreement with citizenship for the people who were there for centuries, and should be able to share the land instead of fight for it, like the last crumbs of bread during a famine.

Do you think the Palestinians deserve to be going through what they’re going through?

Of course not, people are people just like you and me, and everyone has a right to live, a right to believe what they want to believe in.

do you support Israel, or not? Why?

I don’t support Israel, because they are just as bad, if not worse, pushing their holy war more than the Muslims. Killing innocents, and are never demonized, or called terrorists themselves.

EDIT: missed some grammar errors. MS word does not catch everything!

[edit on 3/31/2010 by ugie1028]

No, I don't support Israel or the way in which it was established

I've read quite a bit about Herzl, the Father of Zionism -- about how he went around the world seeking help in order to obtain Palestine --- about how he was offered many other locations and how he delined them

Much of what I've read is contained in Herzl's own diaries and notes

Zionists in the British government gave him what he wanted

But even the British Zionists were shocked by what European jews did once they landed in Palestine

Even Ben Gurion, 'israel's' first Prime Minister, was disgusted -- and said so in his diaries

The US backed the Zionist invasion of Palestine, because US politicians said they knew Americans wouldn't accept an influx of European jews

UK politicians said the same thing about their people

So it appears it was in everyone's interests ... bar the Palestinians of course ... for the Zionist State (or, as Herzl put it, 'The answer to the jewish-problem) to be established in far-away Palestine

From the word-go, the Zionists boasted about how they would carve up Palestine until no one would recognise it. And sure enough, they've kept to their word

There's a lot to tell. A lot people don't know and don't want to know

It was a slaughter. Those european jews moved in like the mad-dogs they boasted they were, 'Mad dogs too dangerous to mess with' is how they phrased it

But for people to really get a feeling for how things were before, they need to see Palestine prior to 1947

It will surprise a lot of people. They won't expect to see beautifully-dressed Palestinian familes or the elegant homes in which they lived -- the prosperous citizens -- the ultra modern (for those times) theatres and restaurants featuring top-billing performers from Europe and America

Many people will be surprised to learn that Palestine was a prosperous place which exported many goods to Europe and elsewhere

They won't expect to see the beautiful orange and olive groves, the factories, the ports, the towns and harbours, the palm lined streets

All of this and more was seized by the European jew invaders

It's all a matter of record. BEn Gurion and others made comprehensive lists of the properties, the houses, the factories and businesses and espcially the bank accounts stolen at gunpoint from the local population. In fact, the theft was so immense and so brazen that even the thieves became nervous and appalled, as their letters and official memos reveal

Those European jews stole everything: houses, furniture, pots and pans ... even the Palestinians' mattresses ! Could you sleep on mattresses stolen from the stolen houses of people you'd killed ? Well those early 'israelis' certainly could and did. Today, they live in properties to which Palestinians still hold the keys

AS for the Palestinians, well, they were murdered, robbed, raped.

See for yourselves. Go online and read Ben Gurion's terse diary entries: ' They washed her, they raped her, they killed her and left her in the desert'. This was the fate of a young Palestinian girl who'd been 'captured' by the invaders. More than a dozen grown men voted on what they would do with her. Tehy were provided the option of releasing her. But instead, they overwhelmingly voted to rape and kill her. Ben Gurion is the witness and he left testimony

Those rapist killers are grandfathers now, if they're still alive. Personally, I hope they're suffering in hell

So go online. Run searches for photos of Palestine in the early 1900s. See for yourself.

Then, run searches for photos of israelis/jews stealing Palestinian houses and household goods

Then find photos of Palestine today .. . what's left of it

Look at the photos of Gaza and the mutilated, white-phosoperoused remains of what had been beautiful little children

Take a good hard look at what has been done to the people of Palestine ... over 60 years of it. Read online how Israeli soldiers admit they were ordered to debase Palestinian homes and schools by defecating in them. And ask yourself what sort of person would sink to that on the excuse of 'orders'. Ask yourself if you would obey the 'order' to shoot and beat elderly men and women, pregnant women, little children ? Ask yourself if you would live in a phony nation that would do this to people, day after day ?

Then, when you're done learning the history, listen to the lies and whining of Israel right now as it demolishes what's left of Palestine in order to fill it with 'settlement's which take the water for lawns while on the other side of that US-funded 15 metre high wall, Palestinians have no water at all, even to drink

Do you think Israel is a bullying, thieving, lying, murderous thug ?

Yes, that's what I think, too

I think the Palestinians are a little worm on a big freakin' hook - and I feel sorry for them as a result. They've been pawns for their leadership, in whatever form it has come, since long before Israel was established in '48. Before the U.N. in their first official act as an organized body established an Israeli homeland, after the collapse of the Ottomans, and before and during the British occupation in 1917, the Palestian leaders used their people against the Jordanians and the Lebanese and the Egyptians - then the Israelis came and all of the sudden those three forementioned countries were meraculously on the side of the Palestians... three wars and countless incursions later, here we are. Their elected leaders in Hamas have succeeded in alienating even their own Arab contemporaries, have further fractured the unity of the Palestinian people and Israel? Warranted paranoia or no, they just keep a-building their jewish settlements in what should otherwise be considered Palestinian territory to create their "buffer" against insurgents, which has the complete opposite effect. Seems to me they're getting dumped on from all sides and it won't stop until a) the Israeli's aging Likud party finally retires and relinquishes their hold on pre-1980s ideology and b) the Palestinian people get themselves some bona fide leaders who can put on their big boy pants and be taken seriously by their immediate contemporaries, to say nothing of the international community.







[edit on 31-3-2010 by Legion2112]

reply to post by Dock9


What you've described here Dock is that the Jews who settled in current day Israel did to the Palestinians exactly what the Germans had done to them...

And I can't even begin to tell you how nauseating the hypocrisy of that is


In answer to the O/P, I wholeheartedly support the establishment of a Palestinian state based on pre 1967 borders...

I also strongly support Hamas as the elected representative of the Palestinian people and I condemn Fatah for its theft of international aid money meant for the Palestinian people and its complete inaction as far as defending the Palestinian people from Israeli aggression goes...

Its high time the international community put a rocket under Israels arse, if you'll pardon the pun, and dragged them kicking and screaming to the table to negotiate a peace settlement based on those pre 1967 borders...

Israel has acted as the world's worst petulant child for far too long and its high time this was stopped...

edit -spelling

[edit on 31/3/2010 by Retrovertigo]

[edit on 31/3/2010 by Retrovertigo]

reply to post by Retrovertigo


Yes


but I have faith in the younger generation Israelis, because they're demonstrating, some of them, the sort of conscience and morality we can applaud (this doesn't include the Megaphone trolls, of course .. their choice)

Like the ex-IDF soldiers who went on You Tube in Burning Conscience (I think) and exposed the orders they were given ... orders that haunt those young men today to the extent they've told the world about what they did

And the young girl who went to jail rather than join the Israeli army, despite that her father was a decorated veteran

The horrors inflicted on the average Palestinian have sickened even the perpetrators. Soon, Israeli citizens will have no option but to heave in a massive communal vomit over what's been done in their name. It's either that, or surrender to the insatiable insanity which afflicts the Israeli administration

The spite, the bullying, the vindictiveness, the dishonesty of Israel --- it's history, recorded history. And we are the witnesses

We should sue Israel for raping our minds and eyes with it's atrocities

Instead, still today, American citizens are forced into paying that bullying thug and into providing it with the weapons to complete the genocide of Palestinians

reply to post by ugie1028



To the Victor goes the spoils, Never mind a peaceful mandate gave Israel the right to exist, Never mind Any and all land Now occupied by Israel was won during, wars which they were attacked... Oh and never mind that Jordan who was suppose to take Palestine and make it a part of Jordan, has recently began to revoke Palestinians citizenship... Yeah never mind.. Death to Israel...


Now if My country was attacked I would fight till the bloody end. And after the Russians killed ever American who wanted to fight then they can have what we haven’t destroyed.... Much like my Cherokee Ancestors. Who fight till they could fight no more.

But never mind that, F**K Israel.... because we know the Muslims would never ever attack Israel… Oh lord isn’t it funny how your words are coming true? Israel’s heart is hardened, the worlds heart towards Israel is hardened… and they say you don’t exist.

reply to post by Dock9


Do take your Arab propaganda elsewhere. This site is to deny ignorance, not to add to it.

Thank your fellow Muslims – the decadent Ottoman Empire, who raped and destroyed Palestine in the 15th century. After the Ottomans took over, Palestine ceased to exist in name.

That area mainly housed Arab and Jewish goatherds till the 18th century, when the Russian Jews started immigrating there and started agriculture. It was a hell of hard work by them, to carve deserts and swamps into fertile blooming agrarian land.

The rich ones with the beautiful homes, palaces and gardens were not the indigenous Palestinians, but the corrupt and absent Arab Ottoman landowners. They did nothing but to collect rent from the serf goatherds and Jewish agriculturists.

As for your dubious claims of what Ben Gurion had said or done, it does not for one iota of a heartbeat changes the fact that war does evil things to mankind, on BOTH sides. As you list the evil done on one side, why hide what the other side had equally or worse done?

Taking sides will never solve and provide a solution to the Palestinian issue. Nor attempting to hide facts or twist it. Present it as it truthfully is, so that others may make a better informed choice, than one of manipulation.

The hardliner Israelis had gone too far, but so had the Palestinian militants who used violence in attempts to solve the issue. For 60 years, violence had been used, and had it succeeded?

None! Don’t the Palestinians ever learn?? It’s ALWAYS and had been the innocent civilians on BOTH sides that ended up in body bags, and more recently, the innocent people in the world as well!

Peace

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Because that would make Israel look like a victim, and we can’t have Israel look like a victim, we need to continue to make the Palestinians the victims, so we can get what we want... Get with the program seeker, the Jews most be kicked out of the Holy land, even though hundreds of thousands lived there before the British Mandate..... Even though they were attacked from all fronts during all the wars from 1948-2010 except for one..... Never mind the facts, we most destroy Israel at all costs.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


I agree 100%. Growing weary of the Israeli-bashing posts in threads that address a larger issue. To all the people who say Israel shouldn't exist because they "stole" the Palestinians land, I would say two things; 1) research post-Ottoman history on the West Bank and 2) Get over it, they do - and no amount of screaming will do anything about that.

That being said, I've supported Israel's right to self determination through conflict after conflict waged against them by countless neighbors. It seems at least that Jordan and Egypt got over it, some others, not so much. That not withstanding, the current state of affairs in that tiny section of the world is as much Israel's fault now as it is Hamas. On the one hand, you have Israel, ruled by an ultra conservative think tank of warhawks held over from the Yom Kippur War, and on the other you have Hamas - the "elected" leadership of the Palestinians who have done even less than Yasser Arafat's liberation front to solidify international support by their actions, seem more interested in getting their Katush fix on than seeking aid for their people and have even gone so far as to get Jordan and Syria screaming "no confidence" in their ability to lead.

IMHO, until those two elements are gone and both the Israeli and Palestinian youth start start gaining positions of power, nothing will change. NOTHING - and the Palestinians will continue to suffer as a result.

There's an excellent article at Veterans Today..

GORDON DUFF: BUSH TERROR WAR NOTHING BUT “COVER,” TERROR LEADERS A MYTH.

What else have we been lying about?

www.veteranstoday.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

there are not only muslims there, but a lot of christians too...

the zionist luciferians who claim to be jewish have killed jesus, took his message, changed it, then spread it to suit their own agenda... those luciferians have linked jesus with a one eyed sun god

all i know is that for the past 2000 years there has been a continuous religious war that will only end with this earth...

I try not to question God or his methods.
I know that in the Torah it says that God made an unconditional covenant with Abraham. I think he plans to keep it.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by aboxoftrix]

Why hasn't Syria or Lebannon been demonized for the way they treat the Palestinian refugees in their countries? The refugee casmps in Lebannon are atrocious. The Palestinians are not allowed to enter the cities to purchase food or receive medical care.
Besides, I remember on 9/12/2001 seeing news clips and reports of Palestinians dancing in the streets because of what happened to us. Why, then, should I care what happens to them?
One last thought, RizeorDie, the Jews didn't kill Jesus, the Romans did. And just in case you weren't aware of it, they were white Gentiles.

I say let Israel light'em up. Anyone can see that the situation has been getting quite grim as of late. Its going to happen anyway so you might as well hit first and hit hard.

Originally posted by aboxoftrix
I try not to question God or his methods.
I know that in the Torah it says that God made an unconditional covenant with Abraham. I think he plans to keep it.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by aboxoftrix]

I agree. History shows that any and all nations that have persecuted the Jew has crumbled.