Breaking: Lieutenant Colonel Publicly Disobeys Orders to Afghan on Obama Eligibility Issue

reply to post by beautifuldreamer


Well you don't need to get personal with me as I am just a citizen and not running for president. But the truth is all of my great grand parents were born here on both sides of my family, my family goes back to the pilgrims and I have native American in me as so many do. But that is not what I'm even saying that should be the precedence for our gov't officials, I'm just saying he is so far removed from the typical American background that it is unnerving to me.

Originally posted by Sheeper
reply to post by maybereal11

 

I didn't even say if I thought it to be illegal, it just rubs me the wrong way, and that is my true feelings....ok. [edit on 31-3-2010 by Sheeper]

OK...Now we are being honest..."feelings"

When you say "it" rubs you the wrong way...what are you referring to.

BTW - I am named after my first Ancestor that settled in Maryland in 1656, the name has been proudly passed down amongst my family for a few hundred years....so I am unsure how your heritage somehow offers you a special view as to what a "real american" is. I am American through and through and our POTUS, born in Hawaii, is the same...and "feelings" don't change those facts.

reply to post by seagull

He swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. When anyone who takes that oath has reason to believe their superiors are either illegal or giving illegal orders they are honor bound to do exactly what the Lt Col. is doing.

reply to post by Sheeper


Yep. It surely is. I happen to believe the President is fully qualified, so far as citizenship is concerned, to be President. Do I believe he should be? No.

But, be that as it may, he is. No amount of demagoguery is going to change that...unless evidence to the contrary comes forth. ...and if it hasn't by now, considering how many are looking, and how many thouroughly despise Mr. Obama; it seems unlikely to.

So, where does that leave us? A LTC, who on principle, has refused a lawful order to deploy. Principle is a wonderful thing, as I've said before; but it doesn't make you right. Do I grant him credit for standing for what he believes? Yes. But he's wrong.

When you stand revealed, as this man does, in violation of your orders, what is the penalty? Court-martial, and if found guilty, he'll be tossed.

...and you know something else? Even if he is right, he's tossed his career away, he'd never see a star... Which would be a shame, 'cause he is, by all accounts, a worthy gentleman.

reply to post by maybereal11


Yes exactly that is what I mean you and I and so many like us share a common history in this country whether it be of slaves or colonialists or the son of immigrants. I all ready explained what "it" is that unnerves me about him, you can read my posts if you wish.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Sheeper]

reply to post by expat2368


Indeed they are. ...and should be. But...they had damned well better be right. If he's not, and I've seen nothing to indicate that he is, there is literally hell to pay.

That's what it comes down to. Is he right? A court-martial may, or may not, reveal...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I'm not the one making the accusation. I have to prove nothing. 'cause it's, last I heard, innocent 'til proven guilty. Y'all think he's a Kenyan masquerading as an American citizen, prove it. ...and trust me, if you do prove it, I'll be right along side of you, demanding his removal.

But you have to prove it.

So far as how? If something is being hidden, good luck to you. Or, there may be nothing there...

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by Kaploink

 

Paranoid delusions? In what way? This officer has an obligation to follow all Lawfull orders, prove they are. At the end of the day, for now, Obama is the Commander in chief, if he isn't in reality, all of his orders would be illegal. Seems everyone enjoys bitching about our troops and the illegal wars, ohhhh they are following illegal orders because the war is illegal. Well, when one brave man stands up to it, just because it doesn't meet the kool aide drinkers merits he's delusional? Give me a break, the man is a hero.

If that's the case, then any man in any of our armed forces can delay orders until they see proof of citizenship from ANY senior officer. Tell me how that would help the situation? There's due diligence, and then there's hindering the system with extraneous processes.

reply to post by seagull


You know in many cases if an opposing party fails or refuses to show up for their defense/offense the opposite wins by matter of default because as far as the court is concerned their disappearance is consider guilt by their own volition. And that is how many people are seeing his attempts to block and refusal to reveal as admittance. His volition of guilt. Sadly the courts are refusing to follow their own procedures and bring this to a hearing, which I can understand, he is the friggin president and there is a lot of power in the wheel works to keep it from getting to that stage.

But you must understand how many people see this as an admission of guilt through his unwillingness to cooperate. You can argue until the cows come home but people with such a conviction will not let it saunter off just because it's a ghost remaining to be seen.

But your right, they will suffer the consequences of their convictions, and that is pure integrity imo. Before I wasn't so sure but Obama has given more than enough reasons to know that this man is right in his defiance.


[edit on 31-3-2010 by Sheeper]

reply to post by pteridine


That's idiotic and one of the problems with our modern society. That same oath states that "I will defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic". If Obama or a col. etc. does not follow the constitution, it is every soldiers DUTY and OBLIGATION to defend the constitution against their tyrrany and trampling of it.

Jaden

reply to post by grahag


WRONG!!!! being a member of the armed services does not require you to be a natural born citizen and every single service member that IS a US citizen showed their birth certificate prior to being allowed to join.

As a service member sworn to defend the constitution, it is your obligation to ensure that you are following the orders of those DULY appointed over you. If those who are issuing your orders are issuing them in a way that you believe to be unconstitutional, since it is your duty to protect and defend the constitution, then you are obligated to refuse those orders until your objections are quelled.

Jaden

reply to post by grahag


WRONG!!!! being a member of the armed services does not require you to be a natural born citizen and every single service member that IS a US citizen showed their birth certificate prior to being allowed to join.

As a service member sworn to defend the constitution, it is your obligation to ensure that you are following the orders of those DULY appointed over you. If those who are issuing your orders are issuing them in a way that you believe to be unconstitutional, since it is your duty to protect and defend the constitution, then you are obligated to refuse those orders until your objections are quelled.

Jaden

He's your president. He's your commander in chief. Although I'm against the war in Afghanistan, I have to say this is really just plain moronic.

Your job is to follow orders but whatever.

I wonder if McCain was president, he'd resign. Probably not.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300
reply to post by seagull

 

Stubborn but with principals. Principals do make you right. Morals, values and principals are what make you a real man or a lady.

Principles make you right?

You live in a messed up world. Where I come from, the facts make you right. Standing up for your principles, if they're wrong, make you ignorant, not right...

Originally posted by Masterjaden
reply to post by grahag

 

WRONG!!!! being a member of the armed services does not require you to be a natural born citizen and every single service member that IS a US citizen showed their birth certificate prior to being allowed to join.

As a service member sworn to defend the constitution, it is your obligation to ensure that you are following the orders of those DULY appointed over you. If those who are issuing your orders are issuing them in a way that you believe to be unconstitutional, since it is your duty to protect and defend the constitution, then you are obligated to refuse those orders until your objections are quelled.

Jaden

You DO Have to be a citizen though. There's no difference in asking for your commander's birth certificate vs. the presidents. If you don't think that someone giving you orders is a citizen of the US, then you can question those orders? Afraid not, unless you want the military to come to a standstill. Might as well just disband them at that point.

You can even take it a step further. Question ANYONE that gives you orders based on their lack of proven eligibility. What about a cop? A judge?

What this guy is saying is that he can question the validity of the top commander, so ALL orders that come in are invalid because of that. I hope he gets made an example of because he's only hurting the command and control process.

reply to post by MysterE

The BC arguement didn't mean much to me until Obama spent so much time, effort, and money to conceal the document along with his Occidental College records.

Exactly how much time and money did he spend? Since that seems to be the solo reason for your disbelief I am sure you have run across some figures somewhere.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Styki]

Originally posted by expat2368
reply to post by seagull

 

He swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. When anyone who takes that oath has reason to believe their superiors are either illegal or giving illegal orders they are honor bound to do exactly what the Lt Col. is doing.

No they are not.

If they believe an order is unlawful, the order... not the person giving it, they are supposed to take it to the next up in the chain of command. Eventually they will reach the President who is the commander in chief.

Once again, its the order, not the person giving it which must be assumed to be unlawful.

Since ALL OFFICERS get their commissions from an act of congress, and congress respects the office of the President, then there is nothing unlawful (i.e. unconstitutional) about it.

This is the issue, the fact that many Americans do not actually understand how the constitution works... they think they can act with impunity upon how they feel it should work... but that's where the constitution is like gravity... it's not just a good idea... its the law!

[edit on 31-3-2010 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by maybereal11


Yes I do have deep seeded disdain for Obama, I thought I made that abundantly clear by now. Why don't you be honest and admit you blindly support him either because of the color of his skin or simply because his is a Democrat, but you will never admit that all though I know it to be true.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Sheeper]

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by MysterE

 

He took an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over him. Presidents do not sign deployment orders.

not quite sure which commanding officer would actually sign his deployment papers, but whichever person that really Does sign that does NOT actually make the decision to go to war in the first place

it is the obama machine that now decides if america is at war or not

so you see, he took an oath to obey the president of the united states, and ONLY the president of the united states, if obama was not born inside the usa, then he is ineligable for presidency and is not president,

meanwhile, you are correct, this man would STILL go to war because orders are orders, but the events that would transpire, considering if the birth movement had resolution that clarified obama NOT eligable, then the vice president (who probably would consider staying at war anyway, but for the sake of the position and argument i hold i continue.... ) biden might decide differently on deploying people to that area

either way though

his worries about obamas place of birth are legitimate in this way, and his reason not to go to war, to kill, and possibly be killed is well founded, even if there is no difference in outcome, the legitimacy of his presidency is under question, and his evasions do not help haha

[edit on 3/31/2010 by indigothefish]

[edit on 3/31/2010 by indigothefish]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

What part of enemies foriegn and domestic do people not understand. If he is not legally the president, then yes, he is duty bound to disobey those orders. As far as those asking about officers eligability, people joining the service have a better back ground check obviously than the vetters for the DNC did on Obama.