Belgium moves to ban the burqa

You have thisreply to post by operation mindcrime


Operation Mindcrime

If you are against this law, then you sure do a poor job of showing it. I mean women should be allowed to cover themselves and not walk around half naked.

So its freedom when a woman is naked but nor freedom when she chooses to cover herself. man what is going on here?

Im not saying that these atrocities don't happen, but when people say islam permits these actions, is when we have a problem.

In america women are being killed everyday

You have this

MURDER
In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.1 That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.2

You have this

According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year.4 Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.5

Also this

SEXUAL VIOLENCE
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6

Oh my god!!! christian men treat their women so horrible

Christian men force these women to be naked and then rape them

Christian men treat these women like dirt, and only use them for sex

When their done with sex, they throw them away like a rotten apple

These women beat these women and these women have no ability to stop this

These men are out of control, and must be stopped, they are maniacs

These men beat these women only to feel a sense of power over someone.

Christian men degrade women to the full limit

Christian men allow for their woman to be naked but will not allow for them to cover themselves.

I feel for these women and would tell then to not give up and just hang on there





See how it is, this can be played two ways. Not fun when the joke is on you?


[edit on 1-4-2010 by pujols5]

reply to post by pujols5

In america women are being killed everyday

All around the world women are being killed everyday....

Now i know you are trying to make a point here but i'll be d*mned if i know what it is...care to elaborate?

Peace

Originally posted by illusive man
reply to post by piedsniper

 

curious would you allow ur siblings to go on page 3 and if you have any daughters allow them to enlighten page 3 (ensuring they are over 18)

i couldnt resist

When my kids are 18 they can do what the hell they like (and probably will) whether I agree or not.

What never ceases to amaze me is that British women will happily strip for free when their on a beach or drunk but would have me arrested if I suggest they do it in the Post Office.

reply to post by colloredbrothers

It's not about the clothing, its about the fact that these woman have to wear these clothes for the rest of there lives!!

When they live move to countries like the UK there are laws that protect women from this sort abuse should it be brought to the attention of the authorities/services.

Women have the right to say no and are empowered to act upon this when they live in the UK, they certainly don't have to wear the clothing for the rest of their lives any more than some years ago a British woman was expected to give sex (or get raped) on demand.

For whatever reason Islamic men bring themselves to the west it is inevitable that their women (chattel) will experience greater equality and emancipation relative to the freedoms and protection afforded to their hos nations female population.

It is very much a matter of clothing when it comes to laws and Muslim women living in the west, but equally it is matter of religious repression when it comes to the same woman living in the Islamic world.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

This Burqa & Niqab doesnt belong here... it's old dress traditions still worn in MD or Islamic Country's.... if they want to be seperated by this religion and dress then they should go live in one of those country's....

So let me get this straight..you will decide and dictate what other people will wear?

These rules are absurd and against freedom. There is no reason why one sect of society gets to dictate what other sects wears. If these rules passes Belgium are no better than Saudi Arabia/ France.

If you want to make it equal and apply ban to Muslim clothing, ban Christian priests/ nuns clothes too, ban Hindu clothes and every other religion clothes then and only then this rule is equal for all. Otherwise it's delusion of freedom and simply a step towards dictatorship.

If the Muslim women has problem with the Burqa let them protest and collect majority vote among Muslim females to apply this ban is the only right way to do it.

Originally posted by Noromyxo
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Albanians are Europeans, and are just a tad bit more civilized than your average arab muslim. Sounds like Europe is being overrun with arab immigrants. This new law is just a reaction (Probably too late) to the fact that Europe is losing it's culture to these invading barbarian curs.
I guess banning the burqa, falls well short of kicking them out on their arses. Which Europe should be about, and soon if it wants to survive.
Sad, very sad. US is next.

Lemme see
* Arab immigrants
* invading barbarians
* kicking them out of their arses

You made your point well done.

Hell you don't even know if they were born in Belgium or not or whether they were called to Belgium for skill and work so industries can run etc etc, Tbh it would be better to kick the racists and intolerants out first.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Sorry but Belgium is not an Islamic theocracy and immigrants living there will have to respect the rules of that country. Do you hear about the Saudi Arabian government allowing non-Muslim women the right to walk around in a low-cut top and short skirt? Different culture, different laws, different expectations. If you want your wife to continue wearing a burqa, then don't move to a secular country where the majority do not![edit on 1/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Agree with you 100% but then after passing these laws Belgium should not claim they are any different than Saudi Arabia since they are mimicking Saudi Arabia's actions and rules.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by pujols5

 

In america women are being killed everyday

All around the world women are being killed everyday....

Now i know you are trying to make a point here but i'll be d*mned if i know what it is...care to elaborate?

Peace

I tried to explain to you that noone is making them wear the burqa, its simply a choice. The hijab on the other hand is what is mandatory.

My point then moved to defending the claim that you and another poster had saying that these women are opressed, i simply backed up my facts.

Hope you're caught up now, and i'll be da**ed if you disagree.

Originally posted by pujols5

I tried to explain to you that noone is making them wear the burqa, its simply a choice. The hijab on the other hand is what is mandatory.

Do you honestly think that women who wear burqa's would be allowed out of the house by their husbands if they didn't? They wear them because they fear the wrath of the men in their cultures. However, many of the females wouldn't admit to that due to the aforementioned fear.

IRM

Originally posted by December_Rain

Agree with you 100% but then after passing these laws Belgium should not claim they are any different than Saudi Arabia since they are mimicking Saudi Arabia's actions and rules.

Not exactly. Belgium is a relatively secular country whereas Saudi Arabia is not. One of the expectations in that country is that everybody should be identifiable when out in public. The burqa challenges this expectation because only the eyes are visible when it is worn. Nun uniforms still expose the face - the key feature used for identifying somebody in public.

I see where you are coming from, but a secular country will not be able to remain secular if they allow religious minorities the right to do things that circumvent the laws of that country. They are not calling for all women to wear certain religious attire (like Saudi Arabia does), they are asking for all citizens to allow their faces to be visible when out in public.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by pujols5

I tried to explain to you that noone is making them wear the burqa, its simply a choice. The hijab on the other hand is what is mandatory.

Do you honestly think that women who wear burqa's would be allowed out of the house by their husbands if they didn't? They wear them because they fear the wrath of the men in their cultures. However, many of the females wouldn't admit to that due to the aforementioned fear.

IRM

Hey man, how do you know they are being forced to wear the burqa, you are simply talking out of your a**

Bring any type of proofs that a man was forcing a woman to wear the burqa. Prove to me and everyone else.

Ill prove you for the liar you are.


In othe words, here are the crimes commited in the u.s against women.

Im not saying that these atrocities don't happen, but when people say islam permits these actions, is when we have a problem.


You have this

MURDER
In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.1 That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.2

You have this

According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year.4 Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.5

Also this

SEXUAL VIOLENCE
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6

Oh my god!!! christian men treat their women so horrible

Christian men force these women to be naked and then rape them

Christian men treat these women like dirt, and only use them for sex

When their done with sex, they throw them away like a rotten apple

These women beat these women and these women have no ability to stop this

These men are out of control, and must be stopped, they are maniacs

These men beat these women only to feel a sense of power over someone.

Christian men degrade women to the full limit

Christian men allow for their woman to be naked but will not allow for them to cover themselves.

I feel for these women and would tell then to not give up and just hang on there





See how it is, this can be played two ways. Not fun when the joke is on you?

I think they (Muslim women) should be allowed to wear them in public but I think whether they are allowed to wear them in shops e.c.t should be down to the discretion of the shop owners. If I owned a shop I wouldn't allow anyone in my shop who covered their head up whether it's a youth with a hood on or a woman with a burqa, it'd be the same rule for everyone.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I think they (Muslim women) should be allowed to wear them in public but I think whether they are allowed to wear them in shops e.c.t should be down to the discretion of the shop owners. If I owned a shop I wouldn't allow anyone in my shop who covered their head up whether it's a youth with a hood on or a woman with a burqa, it'd be the same rule for everyone.

Let me get this straight, you wouldn't allow a women to cover herself up, but at the same time it's ok if a girl comes in with short-shorts, and a belly shirts?

Explain to me this logic?

Originally posted by pujols5

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I think they (Muslim women) should be allowed to wear them in public but I think whether they are allowed to wear them in shops e.c.t should be down to the discretion of the shop owners. If I owned a shop I wouldn't allow anyone in my shop who covered their head up whether it's a youth with a hood on or a woman with a burqa, it'd be the same rule for everyone.

Let me get this straight, you wouldn't allow a women to cover herself up, but at the same time it's ok if a girl comes in with short-shorts, and a belly shirts?

Explain to me this logic?

Hawkwind did NOT say someone couldn't be covered. But their face would have to show. Many shops/stores post signs stating no hoods or sunglasses inside. It's for security reasons. Also during the Halloween season, No masks. It has nothing to do with one's right to wear what they want, but it has everything to do with safety.

Originally posted by maybee

Originally posted by pujols5

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I think they (Muslim women) should be allowed to wear them in public but I think whether they are allowed to wear them in shops e.c.t should be down to the discretion of the shop owners. If I owned a shop I wouldn't allow anyone in my shop who covered their head up whether it's a youth with a hood on or a woman with a burqa, it'd be the same rule for everyone.

Let me get this straight, you wouldn't allow a women to cover herself up, but at the same time it's ok if a girl comes in with short-shorts, and a belly shirts?

Explain to me this logic?

Hawkwind did NOT say someone couldn't be covered. But their face would have to show. Many shops/stores post signs stating no hoods or sunglasses inside. It's for security reasons. Also during the Halloween season, No masks. It has nothing to do with one's right to wear what they want, but it has everything to do with safety.

But it's ok for a women to come in with short-shorts showing of her a**, and wearing a belly-shorts in front of the kids? sure man. that is some good observation.

I really dont know why use used halloween as an example if all the muslim bashers in ats all agree that women are not allowed ths house? which is not true.


I don't know it still confuses me that its wrong to cover yourself, but ok to not cover yourself and be practically naked.

Is it just me or does anyone else the irony i that?

Originally posted by maybee

Originally posted by pujols5

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I think they (Muslim women) should be allowed to wear them in public but I think whether they are allowed to wear them in shops e.c.t should be down to the discretion of the shop owners. If I owned a shop I wouldn't allow anyone in my shop who covered their head up whether it's a youth with a hood on or a woman with a burqa, it'd be the same rule for everyone.

Let me get this straight, you wouldn't allow a women to cover herself up, but at the same time it's ok if a girl comes in with short-shorts, and a belly shirts?

Explain to me this logic?

Hawkwind did NOT say someone couldn't be covered. But their face would have to show. Many shops/stores post signs stating no hoods or sunglasses inside. It's for security reasons. Also during the Halloween season, No masks. It has nothing to do with one's right to wear what they want, but it has everything to do with safety.

But it's ok for a women to come in with short-shorts showing of her a**, and wearing a belly-shorts in front of the kids? sure man. that is some good observation.

I really dont know why use used halloween as an example if all the muslim bashers in ats all agree that women are not allowed ths house? which is not true.


I don't know it still confuses me that its wrong to cover yourself, but ok to not cover yourself and be practically naked.

Is it just me or does anyone else the irony in that?

At the end of the day Belgium isn't an Islamic state. If they want to ban the burqa then power to them... it's their prerogative... not the Islamists. When a western woman goes into many Islamic countries she is forced to follow the customs of that country in regard to dress code amongst other things. But they don't whine and whinge and carry on about their freedoms being dissolved. They respect that the country they are visiting is different from their own and tow the line for the time that they are there.

This type of respect for other peoples countries is a two way street. If we have to respect the culture inside Islamic countries, they should also respect ours when here.

In my humble opinion (and in many others so it seems), the burqa does not meet the cultural or social standards of some western countries. Muslims should either respect that or go live in an Islamic state where their women can be as free as their men claim them to be. If you don't like our uncovered women and you don't like our social standards or moral values, then go back to where you came from. Too Easy!

What was that you say?... You don't want to go? Geez... I wonder why that is!

IRM

Originally posted by pujols5

But it's ok for a women to come in with short-shorts showing of her a**, and wearing a belly-shorts in front of the kids? sure man. that is some good observation.

I really dont know why use used halloween as an example if all the muslim bashers in ats all agree that women are not allowed ths house? which is not true.


I don't know it still confuses me that its wrong to cover yourself, but ok to not cover yourself and be practically naked.

Is it just me or does anyone else the irony in that?

No I don't. No irony whatsoever! What you don't seem to comprehend is it's not an Islamic state. You're not in an Islamic nation anymore mate. We aren't muslims. You are in a western country. It will never be Islamic. You better start coming to terms with how WE live because you are in OUR house. Not the other way around! Got It?

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
At the end of the day Belgium isn't an Islamic state. If they want to ban the burqa then power to them... it's their prerogative... not the Islamists. When a western woman goes into many Islamic countries she is forced to follow the customs of that country in regard to dress code amongst other things. But they don't whine and whinge and carry on about their freedoms being dissolved. They respect that the country they are visiting is different from their own and tow the line for the time that they are there.

This type of respect for other peoples countries is a two way street. If we have to respect the culture inside Islamic countries, they should also respect ours when here.

In my humble opinion (and in many others so it seems), the burqa does not meet the cultural or social standards of some western countries. Muslims should either respect that or go live in an Islamic state where their women can be as free as their men claim them to be. If you don't like our uncovered women and you don't like our social standards or moral values, then go back to where you came from. Too Easy!

What was that you say?... You don't want to go? Geez... I wonder why that is!

IRM

What, my god are you ignorant. No one forces christians or jews to here anything, they wear their own dress code.

Just becuase you believe all the bullsh** fed to you by thr media doesn't mean it's true. And if that does happen in some countries, that is not islam that permits it. Got it? good

I wonder why you are aginst the burqa, could it becuase you hate islam and muslims? yup i nailed the answer people. We got a muslim basher.

I wonder why the western world appear to be democratic, especially americans in this site yet they are against this burqa, that is just pathetic.


Congratulation, you are either a muslim hater, or a really ignorant person

Originally posted by pujols5

I wonder why you are aginst the burqa, could it becuase you hate islam and muslims? yup i nailed the answer people. We got a muslim basher.

I wonder why the western world appear to be democratic, especially americans in this site yet they are against this burqa, that is just pathetic.


Congratulation, you are either a muslim hater, or a really ignorant person

I wonder why you don't like the way western women dress? Could it be because you are a western hater? Yup, I nailed it people. We got a western basher! Hey two can play at that game my friend!

Speaking of democracy, why do muslims move to western democracies and then whinge and whine about our way of life, our customs, our uncovered women (as you say)? That is just pathetic!

Congratulations, you are either a western hater, or a really ignorant person!

Got any other strawmen?

IRM