Poll: Aliens or God

I have seen some threads on here about how Christians do this or that or basically how anybody religious is basically delusional...etc. I have also seen threads about how alien life is here and there is all these believers..etc. The thing I was that made me think of this question is this; Some of the believers of the whole "Aliens are here scenario" are some of the people calling religious people delusion and other things. My question is in three parts. Also you can take part..but this poll is mainly for the the people who believe in Aliens and not God and Vice versa
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1. Do you believe in Aliens or God?

2. What type of proof made you believe in one and not the other.

eg.Photos, stories and video

3. Why is your proof better than another person who believes the opposite?

eg.Do you disregard another persons proof as complete bunk.

Are you suggesting that these are the only two possibilities, and that they are mutually exclusive? Just wondering.

My responses, as I am feeling obliging:

1) Extraterrestrials, yes; God, probably not, but I am unsure.

2) I have no proof, except that the Universe is large, and I don't feel that our species is as special or as unique as most people seem to.

3) My claims are based on lack of experience of the wider Universe outside the Earth. The claims of others are based on some level of certainty about what lies beyond Humanity's present level of empirical understanding. I can prove my ignorance; they can't prove their 'knowledge' with much more than anecdotes.


But once again, I'd like to know more about what motivates you to ask this question. What about people who believe in aliens and God (or Gods)? What about people who believe in neither? Because honestly, I've never seen either one, and neither has anyone I consider to be a fully reliable witness.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by The Parallelogram]

1) No God, Yes Aliens

2) Aliens are pretty reasonable, God is... well unreasonable

3) I don't have proof off hand, well other members will, but video proof of UFO's and Aliens, are alot more believable.... than say a piece of toast that resembles Mary, but I think it resembles Wilma Flintstone.

In a most simplistic basic version, you can google any part of aliens, and find extremely interesting things, and even just statistically it's not hard to believe, at least it's extremely possible there are aliens, and they haven't visited us ever.

But you do that with deities, and you just get phil collins music with clips of emotional stuff and a bunch of nicely worded words, and maybe allah written sketchily into a goats side and that is treated as proof.

For me, I can and have seen quite a few people on ATS and elsewhere who have shown good 'reasoning' for the existence of aliens, and those who pose cases for god/gods have extremely weak reasoning, and since pure proof isn't available at all for both sides, I have to go off reason and logic, and aliens kind of stand out as winners! But it's really no contest there!

Originally posted by kerazeesicko

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1. Do you believe in Aliens or God?

2. What type of proof made you believe in one and not the other.

eg.Photos, stories and video

3. Why is your proof better than another person who believes the opposite?

eg.Do you disregard another persons proof as complete bunk.

Both

Experienced a UFO when I was 8 and several since and that was enough for me. As for God the proof for me was the outer asteroid belt that protects earth from being hit by a large portion of asteroids.

Debunkers haven't seen evidence yet and thats why they don't believe. As for the atheists, I don't know, I guess my primitive mind that makes me an agnostic restricts me from joining cults.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

Originally posted by kerazeesicko Some of the believers of the whole "Aliens are here scenario" are some of the people calling religious people delusion and other things.

I agree both sides of the debate can get very passionate and blinkered into their own belief on ATS but that is fine as this is what makes this place extremely interesting a lot of the time because passion often brings lucidity of thought and threads filled with such debate very interesting to read.

Lately it seems that the atheist and religious schisms have manifested themselves quite strongly on ATS but this is not necessarily a bad thing as a well argued post is still fascinating and enjoyable to read even if I might disagree with it.

I tend to read these passionate (some might say combative) threads without contributing however as firstly I do not come here to sling mud and have it slung at me and secondly and most importantly I do not really care what a person’s belief system is just as long as they do not interfere with my life or belief system by trying to browbeat me into submission.

Things said on a forum do not interfere with my life like it seems to interfere with others so I am therefore content to simply watch the mudslinging from the sidelines.

Originally posted by kerazeesickoDo you believe in Aliens or God?

I believe that aliens are visiting the Earth and have been doing so for a very long time and I do not believe in a god, any god because I would need indisputable proof to dedicate my life to something like that end. Even then if there was a god I would expect him or her to help humanity and not to sit back and watch us slaughter each other while he or she tells us that love is everything... Prove it do not sit back and talk of love while the world burns and death runs rampant.

To gain my theological respect and loyalty in such a context I require much more than ancient empty words especially as the world slaughters each other in the name of freedom, democracy and many other fluffy but ultimately empty jingoism's.

Originally posted by kerazeesickoWhat type of proof made you believe in one and not the other. eg.Photos, stories and video

I have seen UFO’s and unless there are top secret technologies that are far beyond what we are led to believe then I have to conclude that what I have seen is not of human manufacture.

I asked (demanded) to see UFO’s over a moderate but intense period of meditation way back in 2008 8th of may and viola – within an hour they were there above me and unless human technologies can hear human thought I conclude I was noticed and most importantly that my thoughts were heard. Since that night I have seen more and what’s more I was not alone so I have not been hallucinating – not that I ever thought I had been hallucinating in the first place.

To see these things with your own eyes is firstly a shock and secondly it changes everything in ways I find difficult to explain. For a few months after the fact I started to act very strangely to the point I left my wife for a whole year and became a recluse, a weirdo hermit who locked himself away from the world and avoided human contact.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko Why is your proof better than another person who believes the opposite? eg.Do you disregard another persons proof as complete bunk.

It would depend on their argument and the way they expressed it. If someone turned to me and said ‘I cannot believe you because what you say is just so crazy and hard to believe.’ I would speak at length about what I have seen and I would respect their scepticism as I do realise that the things I have seen would not be believable. I would probably not believe it either so their scepticism is understandable and expected too but in the same token I saw what I saw and their believing me or not is not important.

If someone turned to me and insulted me and called me a wack job who should take his medication and or take a jump off a high building then of course I am going to either disregard anything they might say and secondly I may well take offence and confront them directly on the insult as no person has a right to crush another and negative and positive actions all bring their own consequences in this reality.

The Parallelogram is absolutely correct, of course, that it isn't an either/or scenario.

Personally, I'm undecided on both questions. I lean toward believing in extraterrestrials and disbelieving in a personal God.

Your third question is really the most interesting. I've always thought
epistemological questions were the most important, messy, and difficult aspect of believing in any sort of "conspiracy theory." The issue of what counts and what does not count as reliable evidence is maddening.

I'm pretty certain that what is required to believe in God is...to believe in God. There is no piece of evidence that I need to see. I side with Kierkegaard on this issue--at some point, faith requires a blind leap prompted by an intuition you either do or do not have at any given point in time.

Short of actually seeing something that I believe to be an extraterrestrial, I'm not sure what would tip the scales for me to go from "cautious belief" to "full on believer" in extraterrestrials.

As it stands, I base my belief on the fact that there are enough instances in which it's pretty clear *something* happened (The Battle of Los Angeles, Roswell) and that *someone* wanted to cover up that I feel like, even if you apply Occam's Razor, you're still left with no entirely satisfactory theories of what really happened that leave space aliens out of the scenario. What's that cheesy old line from X Files...."I believe because 'all evidence to the contrary' is not, entirely, dissuasive." Basically, if powerful people are willing to bother to try to cover something up, then I'm given to presume that whatever they're trying to cover up must be kind of a big deal.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


1. Do you believe in Aliens or God?
Yes.

2. What type of proof made you believe in one and not the other.
eg.Photos, stories and video.
Faith and logic can (believe it or not) live peacefully side by side.

3. Why is your proof better than another person who believes the opposite?
eg.Do you disregard another persons proof as complete bunk.
It’s entirely personal so, what may work for me, may not for anyone else. I fully believe that, literally ANYTHING is possible.

(I feel no need to flame and gut another concept merely to prop up my own. My beliefs are based on my 50+ years of life experience. Yours may differ and… that’s okay.)

Rock on.

Well if you believe in god technically he is an alien? "Not from here, has magical powers"

And if you believe in aliens, well if an alien race put us on earth, or planted some sort of microscopic life form "or even a humanoid" on earth... would that not make them our god as they gave us life?

reply to post by bluedrake

Well if you believe in god technically he is an alien? "Not from here, has magical powers"

Personally, I see God as being what essentially amounts to the greatest scientist and engineer in the universe.

No magic. Magic is not real, Nothing unreal exists. Magic, per se, is nothing but a form of matter and energy manipulation. It is engineering at a level so far beyond our comprehension, that we can only view it as magic.

Is God an alien? That is a Earth/human-centric concept. It assumes that we are so special, that everything beyond this rock, is something different.

We are all part of this universe and all bearing matter that is found in every other corner of the same.

...

reply to post by redoubt


Sorry should not have used the word magic, but was trying to imply that he has powers that we do not understand yet

reply to post by bluedrake


Even if an extraterrestrial created us or had some hand in our evolution I would not think of them as gods even if such a hypothesis turned out to be true because to my minds I imagine the divine to be beyond all natural laws, unnatural and indestructible by anything. A god or goddess by their very nature I would think is well beyond the grasping claws of this world in the context of this world being able to inflict harm on them.

An extraterrestrial, even a race of extraterrestrials millions of years in an evolutionary head start over humankind would still have to take into account the laws of the universe from time to matter and all the constraints that come with it and this universe could still surprise them and in being subject to surprise they of course also risk harm.

Even if extraterrestrials manifested themselves as such godlike beings due to the massive head start they might theoretically have over us I could never think of them as gods and I think to do so would be to insult the potential enlightenment of the human mind in the very real sense of the word.

An extraterrestrial had to have started off as a biological single celled lifeform somewhere but a divinity surely could never have done so?

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67


Lets say they found our star all alone in the galaxy, dragged some planets and put them around the sun so that the planets could support life "or at least one could". Created us from scratch and put us on earth, watched over us, protected us and had the ability to read our minds and help us make our decisions and had the power of taking it away with a flick of a switch... well just maybe you could consider them to be a god... after all they did create you and help setup your environment you live in

Would you not consider them to be some sort of god.... remember you dont only have to have one god you can have more in some religions

[edit on 31-3-2010 by bluedrake]

Why are you assuming an either-or situation?

God, or All That Is, is in every cell and atom of everything. The god particle that we all carry, is carried by every living thing. We are all one.
Those entities residing in other parts of the universe/multiverse are as much a part of it as humans. And many of them are more evolved.

The Original Thought is NOW. We are all sparks of this. You are God, so is the spider on your shower wall. And so is the extraterrestrial that resides in another universe and comes here through portals to check us out.

Originally posted by blujay
Why are you assuming an either-or situation?

God, or All That Is, is in every cell and atom of everything. The god particle that we all carry, is carried by every living thing. We are all one.
Those entities residing in other parts of the universe/multiverse are as much a part of it as humans. And many of them are more evolved.

The Original Thought is NOW. We are all sparks of this. You are God, so is the spider on your shower wall. And so is the extraterrestrial that resides in another universe and comes here through portals to check us out.

My thoughts precisely. This is how i believe it to be. In fact this is how i know it to be. Proving it is a problem. I once opened my third eye by methods i would not recommend, and i saw what the universe REALLY is.
This is how i know. Ordinarily our senses are veiled.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


1) I believe in extra-terrestrial life, and many gods.

2) My belief comes from scientific investigation (Phoenix Lights, by Dr. Kitie) and personal experiences from my own personal investigations. Also from occasional photo or audio records of these types of things.

3) My proof is not better than a skeptical persons lack-of-proof. Quite the opposite, my proof convinces me, and that is all that I would ever hope for it to do. If someone else has never experienced a UFO encounter, or a religious miracle then I don't expect them to believe in it, nor do I wish them to believe without their own evidence.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


Excellent topic, thankyou for asking.

I've seen pictures of UFOs (albeit hand drawn) in ancient religious artworks.

(There are a few videos on youtube that show them but I'll try to link one... sorry, i'm new)
www.youtube.com...

There are also the stories of when the Americans first flew around an Aboriginal tribe, who thereby perceived the Americans, with their flying technology, as 'Gods'.

From the stories in the Bible -that tell us the Godly Angels flew down to us from the Heavens spreading peace and love- it makes sense to me that we used to look up and call what we saw, 'The Heavens', these days we call it 'Space, The Universe' and so on.

So, I beg this simple question to everyone.
If Godly beings flew down to us today, would we still call them 'GODS' or 'ALIENS'?

Airease

reply to post by bluedrake


No even then I would not consider them gods unless I was uneducated and had no other frame of reference much like the majority of humanity way back in the dark ages and beyind. However as an educated person who does not subscribe to religion or superstition I could not consider such beings gods because like I said to my mind a god is from the divine not from flesh.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


1. Do you believe in Aliens or God? Aliens who to us are Gods.

2. What type of proof made you believe in one and not the other.

eg.Photos, stories and video: No proof, Just a sorta understanding inside my head that this seems to be the truth.. There is no 1 Man god, There is no evolution were we evolved from monkeys, Ect.. Maybe they semi human bones were failured experiments

3. Why is your proof better than another person who believes the opposite?

Raised catholic and the Bible's story of 1 Man creating everything.. never clicked and as a grew I was always interested in Alien / God / Mythology topics and they all sync together to make the Bible click.. and make more sense Gods or Aliens creating humans the stories, It makes more sense then hey we evolved from monkeys...

eg.Do you disregard another persons proof as complete bunk.

Nope... Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, listening to everyone is how you get the whole story straight. Straight sited people often become upset and fill with hate....


:-) this is like my 2nd post lol...... prob post more later on :-)

Interesting thread and I'm fantastically glad somenone started it. My proof of the existence of God stems from the oldest religions and Tenets that I have personally concluded as being legitimate: Budhism and Christianity, even Scientology.

If you care to study the big pictures, ie, what the prophets are saying in a broad sense is simply that we "are immortal beings capable of higher understanding" and that we were created in the "likeness of a God, we are 'like' God". I think short we are Gods. But there is a higher God who created us, a being whose thoughts come to be reality. A being who creates planets, life, time and even energy.

And that being sort of split the same way atoms split. And we are the results of that spliting.

Some people reach these higher states and can do "things." You know the magician who is not a magician but is actually CAUSING those things to happen. Am talking about the magician who is not performing illusions.

Why are we in such lowered states? I think we forgot that we ourselves were Gods a very very long time ago.

Humans are a creation of this being. I'd like to arrogantly imagine we are His favourite creation due to the fondness this being seems to take in us as stated in the Bible and Torah.

I believe that aliens are also a creation of this being. But which God could love such ugly fellas? OK. That is wrong. (Oblong heads and bug eyes).

I personally believe that aliens do not look very different from us. Maybe darker or lighter depending on the effects of their Sun on their pigment. Otherwise I see absolutely no reason why aliens are creatures with ant heads and brittle skeletons. That is Hollywood. These aliens must be just like you and me.

Anyway, I simply thought everyone had this "gut" feeling that the Human species was part of a tremendously huge family of sentient beings spread across galaxies and universes and that God created all these life forms.

Honestly.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

1. I believe in both, Aliens as extraterrestrial intelligences, and God as a higher unseen force.

2. If there were little or few cases of the different types of encounters ex. First, Second, Third, & Fourth Kind, then you could deny their existence but there are just way too many cases. Also, many ancient civilizations depict being visited by beings from above.

As for God, I can't provide much evidence there but could speak from a personal experience. At a moment in my life I lost faith in almost everything. One night I was so desperate that I prayed. In my prayer I said If there is any existence of a higher force out there please answer my question which was "What the meaning of life was about?". Shortly after I felt the urge to turn on my T.V and on came an episode of a show. It just happen to be about someone trying to be like God. As I continued to watch, the same question I asked in my prayer came up. In that moment it felt like the universe had singled me out as to show me that yes there is an invisible force out there, that watches over us. Up to this day I don't believe in any religion. I do believe in the idea of Karma, where perform good or bad deeds and be rewarded or punished one way or another.

3. I will proudly say that my proof isn't better than someone else's, who believes the opposite as we are all different & unique and live our lives differently.
I personally wouldn't disregard the other person's proof as bunk.
About 1 year ago I had the opportunity to discuss this with my professor in my world religions class. I was surprised when I heard my prof. talk about a similar experience he had. In his case he did not believe it was God or anything else of that nature. He simply described it as a "meaningful coincidence".
I somewhat consider my experience to also be a "meaningful coincidence" since it also left a big impression on me.