NZ woman starves herself to death

reply to post by MAC269


For some reason, I just don't understand your point or why you addressed your post to me

Would you explain more fully please ?

Thanks

some people oppose the death penalty because innocents may die- if euthanasia was legalised, innocents will die, rest assured of that, I wonder if the same people oppose legalised euthanasia...............

Originally posted by blueorder
some people oppose the death penalty because innocents may die- if euthanasia was legalised, innocents will die, rest assured of that, I wonder if the same people oppose legalised euthanasia...............

In answer to your question, no they don't...Or at least I don't...

I oppose the death penalty, period....

And I absolutely support the right of a person to choose when and how they die...I also believe doctors who wish to help a person die by putting a cannula in a vein and either handing them a syringe filled with Nembutal that said person administers themselves or injecting the Nembutal into the vein of that person should not be prosecuted...

How can I support euthanasia and oppose the death penalty you ask ?

Easy....Comparing the two as you've tried to do is the old apples and oranges scenario, they're two completely different things...

I don't see why euthanasia is considered as 'controversial' or a 'sticky issue'

If someone wants to die, that's it. Their choice. Their business

If someone is offering a self-help device or potion or whatever which will take the guesswork out of the equation, then the person who wants to die should be free to purchase it. Simple transaction. No one else's business and certainly not a government's business

The person who wants to die should not have to explain 'why' they want to die to anyone. They should not have to justify their reason any more that people have to justify what make of car or perfume they purchase

Who are these do-gooding busy-bodies who presume the right to interfere ? Is someone making them die ? No ? Then it's none of their affair

Governments want to play God at only one end of the life span -- the exit

They don't have the spine to interfere at the 'entry' phase ... birth. No. Because they're terrified of losing votes if they were to curtail the number and type of 'entries'

So it's a case of Sigh ... ok, breed you useless eaters, keep breeding even though we don't need what you especially insist on producing and tossing into the gene pool. We'll just have to kill you off the sneaky way: wars, plagues, famines, Chems, chemicals in your toothpaste, poisons in your air and food and water. And we can't even give you the green light to kill yourselves (much as we'd like you to) because the religious voter block would have a fit and punish us at the next election

Funny how people will insist someone can't leave this cursed planet and will concoct dozens of reasons to force the unwilling to remain here. Yet those same people don't bat an eyelid at the number of people killed by alcohol each day, or by war

No, Grandma. I don't want to hear another word about your dying, ok ? You can't. We won't let you. People might talk. Anyway, what an insult to us ... your loving family ... that you don't want to stay here with us. You're staying, so get used to it. We've taken away your pills. You're only going to use plastic spoons from now on to slurp up your puree. I mean gee, Grandma. WE have to put up with living. So why should you get an early out. Anyway, Grandma -- shut up. You're tied to the bed. I'll come later and you can go to the toilet. I have other things to worry about beside listening to you wailing that you don't want to have to live any more. I have to help Ronald Jnr. pack his case. He's enlisted. He's going to fight for our free-dumbs overseas. Don't be stupid, Grandma -- of course he could be killed and die. But that's different to your wanting to die ! If [he] dies, it's classified as accident of war, whereas if you die just because you want to ... well, that's bad and God wouldn't like it and he'd send you to hell. So stop nagging me, shut up and go to sleep '

Personally, I have never understood why suicide is illegal.

Now before some of you burn me, hear me out.

What I choose to do, regardless of my mental state, is my business, not yours. If I have decided that I want to shuffle off this mortal coil, as long as I do it in a way that will not put others in danger, that is my choice. Just because you might be horrified at the idea of someone killing themselves, ultimately it's none of your business.

Maybe I feel that I do not have the will to live anymore, maybe I have a terminal condition, or maybe I am pulling a Romeo...it doesn't matter what the reason is, it's up to me. Yes, the people I leave behind will be hurt by my "selfish" decision, but eventually they will get on with their lives.

By thwe by, I'm not suicidal (too afraid of going to Hell), I'm just trying to post a different point of view.

reply to post by cwt8466



Yep. You get a star too !

Thank God we're hearing from those of independent thought and not afraid to speak it


edit : (at the end of that short first line, there's supposed to be a thumbs-up, but it's not performing as it should and instead, your thumbs-up award wishes to be seen simply as 'up', lol. Anyway, it's the thought that counts, right ?


2nd edit: A miracle ! The thumb finally made it !
.



[edit on 31-3-2010 by Dock9]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Dock9]

Originally posted by Retrovertigo


In answer to your question, no they don't...Or at least I don't...

I oppose the death penalty, period....

And I absolutely support the right of a person to choose when and how they die...I also believe doctors who wish to help a person die by putting a cannula in a vein and either handing them a syringe filled with Nembutal that said person administers themselves or injecting the Nembutal into the vein of that person should not be prosecuted...

How can I support euthanasia and oppose the death penalty you ask ?

Easy....Comparing the two as you've tried to do is the old apples and oranges scenario, they're two completely different things...

Not at all, for those that oppose the death penalty, they often use the defence that one innocent dying makes it something they cannot countenance- with legalised euthanasia, with this being the land of man, and imperfection being impossible, innocents will die, if you are happy with that and cannot see the contradiction, so be it

reply to post by Dock9


people commit suicide all the time, you do not have to explain it to anyone

Originally posted by Dock9

They don't have the spine to interfere at the 'entry' phase ... birth. No. Because they're terrified of losing votes if they were to curtail the number and type of 'entries'

If the elderly want the right to die when they choose, perhaps they'd better give up their right to vote first.


------------------------

I have given some serious thought to the idea that perhaps the elderly are having their lives extended just to create jobs for the otherwise unemployable. There's a fortune to be made caring for them.

If they die too early their goods and money will be left to relatives instead of being handed over to carers and / or the state until there's nothing left.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by cwt8466

 

Yep. You get a star too !

Thank God we're hearing from those of independent thought and not afraid to speak it


edit : (at the end of that short first line, there's supposed to be a thumbs-up, but it's not performing as it should and instead, your thumbs-up award wishes to be seen simply as 'up', lol. Anyway, it's the thought that counts, right ?

2nd edit: A miracle ! The thumb finally made it !
.



[edit on 31-3-2010 by Dock9]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Dock9]

Thanks friend! You got yourself a star too!

And thanks for the

I just don't see where I get off telling you what to do with your life. Now, if you were my child i.e. under 18, that would be a bit different.

But a grown adult? Give me a break...

reply to post by cwt8466



If you want to commit suicide, why on earth would someone want the "state's" permission- do people look to the state like a nanny

Originally posted by blueorder
Not at all, for those that oppose the death penalty, they often use the defence that one innocent dying makes it something they cannot countenance- with legalised euthanasia, with this being the land of man, and imperfection being impossible, innocents will die, if you are happy with that and cannot see the contradiction, so be it

Well I'm not "they"...

I oppose the death penalty because its nothing but an act of vengeance...

And that is all I will say about the death penalty...Because this is a thread about euthanasia, not the death penalty and I won't be drawn into an off topic conversation in this thread....

On the other hand, euthanasia, whether assisted completely or partially is an act of mercy, an act of utmost kindness...Probably the kindest act one could bestow upon another other than giving one's life for them...

As I said, apples and oranges...They are pretty much polar opposites...

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Well I'm not "they"...

I oppose the death penalty because its nothing but an act of vengeance...

And that is all I will say about the death penalty...Because this is a thread about euthanasia, not the death penalty and I won't be drawn into an off topic conversation in this thread....

wasn't intending to, though at least your reasoning behind the death penalty does not leave you open to the point I was presenting- though the death penalty is more than just vengeance (not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that.......)

On the other hand, euthanasia, whether assisted completely or partially is an act of mercy, an act of utmost kindness...Probably the kindest act one could bestow upon another other than giving one's life for them...

This is the utopian view on an internet forum, in reality it will be rather sordid, brutal and result in people dying who feel like a burden etc.........






[edit on 31-3-2010 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder
This is the utopian view on an internet forum, in reality it will be rather sordid, brutal and result in people dying who feel like a burden etc.........
[edit on 31-3-2010 by blueorder]

And your evidence of this is ?

Show me evidence from states/countries where euthanasia is legal that widespread abuse of these laws in the way of people who don't want to die are being forced to die is taking place...

Without such evidence, the point you tried to make above is bunk...

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
And your evidence of this is ?

This is not utopia, this is the land of man- I mean seriously, that applies to anything we are discussing, EVERYTHING IS AND WILL BE OPEN TO ABUSE ON THIS EARTH, you are not such a deluded uptopian, are you!

Show me evidence from states/countries where euthanasia is legal that widespread abuse of these laws in the way of people who don't want to die are being forced to die is taking place...

Without such evidence, the point you tried to make above is bunk...

Your last comment is bunk, uptopian bunk


You actually do not deserve a reply, as you seem to exist on a forum page, with no understanding of the abuse human beings carry out and are capable of, but go check out Dr Kervokian for starters, who helped kill 4 people with no discernible organic illness



*shakes head*

reply to post by blueorder


Generally speaking, most people don't automatically consider submitting an application seeking permission to die

However, if the suicide attempt fails, the person can be arrested and/or placed in a psychiatric unit, in various parts of the world

Also, anyone who assists someone to die could be charged and sentenced, in various parts of the world

It's government legislation which allows for people to be charged and/or committed to an institution

Such unenlightened laws probably date back to the days when those who killed themselves were buried in unhallowed ground, i.e., the Church effectively presumed to punish them for eternity and to humiliate an already grieving family

These days, it's governments who undertake to 'punish' those who try to depart early, by putting them institutions and jailing those who might have tried to help them to leave early

In the same breath, governments also give the nod to 24 hour alcohol sales and even though they know a platoon of soldiers will almost certainly die in the process, they nevertheless give the order to proceed into enemy territory

It's all supposed to make sense, even though it clearly does not. But if it all becomes too much for you and you decide you want to leave the planet, you'll be pronounced 'crazy' and placed on zombifying meds until you've been judged sane (i.e., willing to endure your life- sentence on earth with no more attempted jail-breaks)

Originally posted by blueorder
This is not utopia, this is the land of man- I mean seriously, that applies to anything we are discussing, EVERYTHING IS AND WILL BE OPEN TO ABUSE ON THIS EARTH, you are not such a deluded uptopian, are you!

Your last comment is bunk, uptopian bunk


You actually do not deserve a reply, as you seem to exist on a forum page, with no understanding of the abuse human beings carry out and are capable of, but go check out Dr Kervokian for starters, who helped kill 4 people with no discernible organic illness
*shakes head*

Like I thought, no evidence to back it up...Therefore your claims are rubbish until proven otherwise...

So don't reply to me, care factor = 0...

You obviously have an issue with self control if you say on one hand "You actually do not deserve a reply..." and end up replying to me...

Make your mind up already !! *facepalm*

Edit to add - Last night I watched the 2nd part of a doco on SBS called "Do Not Resuscitate"...I highly recommend people who support the legalisation of euthanasia check it out...

[edit on 31/3/2010 by Retrovertigo]

Originally posted by Dock9
Generally speaking, most people don't automatically consider submitting an application seeking permission to die

correct

However, if the suicide attempt fails, the person can be arrested and/or placed in a psychiatric unit, in various parts of the world

probably wise

Also, anyone who assists someone to die could be charged and sentenced, in various parts of the world

suppose it is a deterrent

It's government legislation which allows for people to be charged and/or committed to an institution

correct, I never suggested otherwise

Such unenlightened laws probably date back to the days when those who killed themselves were buried in unhallowed ground, i.e., the Church effectively presumed to punish them for eternity and to humiliate an already grieving family

Odd use of "unenlightened"

These days, it's governments who undertake to 'punish' those who try to depart early, by putting them institutions and jailing those who might have tried to help them to leave early

I believe that it is not for "punishment" but to try and HELP the poor sod who decides that life is so hard it is not worth living- as most people who fail a suicide attempt do not die in the future from suicide, it seems an "englightened" approach

As for those who assist them, clearly it is necessary as MAN is a nasty beast who would use suicide of others for his own nerfarious gain/reasoning

In the same breath, governments also give the nod to 24 hour alcohol sales and even though they know a platoon of soldiers will almost certainly die in the process, they nevertheless give the order to proceed into enemy territory

Odd tangent, even though I oppose 24 hour alcohol sales - re the soldiers thing, presumably they exist not to die, but to be aware that death may occur, whereas suicide is to attempt, specifically to die

It's all supposed to make sense, even though it clearly does not. But if it all becomes too much for you and you decide you want to leave the planet, you'll be pronounced 'crazy' and placed on zombifying meds until you've been judged sane (i.e., willing to endure your life- sentence on earth with no more attempted jail-breaks)

Think this is dramatic nonsense, most people who have a failed suicide attempt do not go on to commit it again, clearly they feel fortunate to have survived a low point in their life

Click here for more information.

reply to post by blueorder


blueorder quote:

in reality it will be rather sordid, brutal and result in people dying who feel like a burden etc.........

So what ?

Seriously ... so what ?


People want to die for the same number of reasons that some will fight to live


If someone wants to die, that should be their prerogative. Their reason for wanting to die is immaterial and is no one else's business

Many people do not particularly enjoy living. They go on living because trying to die turns into such a drama or because they don't want to upset someone

But they still want to die !

So they push themselves to exist, all the time wishing they were dead

And you're ok with that ? You feel people should 'have' to exist, even when they don't want to ?

So what are you really saying here ? Are you angry at the thought that some people might cash in their chips ? Do you feel they should be forced to live, to keep you happy ?

Or are you scared of death and to overcompensate, you believe death should be fought with everything at society's disposal ?

Is this all about YOU --- rather than people you don't know considering suicide ?

Is it about your own power and control issues ?

Do you feel you need to explore your own issues, rather than becoming angry with people you don't even know and THEIR decisions about THEIR fate ?