Ten Signs You Are An Unquestioning Christian

reply to post by wylekat


I'm not about to read the whole bible and certainly not about to learn Hebrew to read the original. The thing that turned me off was the fact that I heard about the book of Jesus and the fact that the church wouldn't allow it. The one book from your messiah, and you refuse to allow it in the regular bible sounds fishy to me. The fact that it states that you are your own church definitely ruffles feathers in these holy institutions. I gotta hand it to Christians though. They believe in their creator based off of faith alone. The science community has the luxury of stating everything as a theory while at the same time presenting everything they believe in as a fact.

here is something i found about the seven days thing

"The Hebrew word for ‘day’ is ‘yom’ and this word can occasionally be used to mean an indefinite period of time, if the content warrants. In the overwhelming preponderance of its occurrences in the O.T., however, it means a literal day… Still further, the plural form of the word (Hebrew 'yamim') is used over 700 times in the O.T. and always, without exception, refers to literal ‘days.’" (The Bible Has the Answers, Henry Morris, p. 94).

reply to post by impaired


I guess it s really fun and supercool to attack people s religion. Apparently you are convinced that you can convince "Christians (people you are apparently feel free to lump all in one conveniant category regardless of whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, Nestorian or Anglican) which IMHO makes you as much of a BIGOTED zealot as those you imagine to be baiting. Obviously your beliefs are the one true faith. Why dont you enlighten us?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by liquidself]

Originally posted by ventian
reply to post by wylekat

 

I'm not about to read the whole bible and certainly not about to learn Hebrew to read the original. The thing that turned me off was the fact that I heard about the book of Jesus and the fact that the church wouldn't allow it. The one book from your messiah, and you refuse to allow it in the regular bible sounds fishy to me. The fact that it states that you are your own church definitely ruffles feathers in these holy institutions. I gotta hand it to Christians though. They believe in their creator based off of faith alone. The science community has the luxury of stating everything as a theory while at the same time presenting everything they believe in as a fact.

Ehhh, you know what? I don't really think that science pawns everything like that off to be a fact.

From how *I* at least understand it, it seems there are a lot more theories than facts... Especially once you get to forensics...

It seems there are a lot of gray areas in science as well.

I believe science to be right, and wrong at the same time, as well as the bible (this is NOT contradicting what I have been saying, btw) is right, but wrong at the same time...

I don't have a problem with looking at the bible with a historic point of view (putting into account translation errors, archaic vernacular, etc). I just don't believe in the whole organized religion thing, and the contradictions involved with being (overly) religious.

I hope I said that right...

Originally posted by liquidself
reply to post by impaired

 

I guess it s really fun and supercool to attack people s religion. Apparently you are convinced that you can convince "Christians (people you are apparently feel free to lump all in one conveniant category regardless of whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, Nestorian or Anglican) which IMHO makes you as much of a BIGOTED zealot as those you imagine to be baiting. Obviously your beliefs are the one true faith. Why dont you enlighten us?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by liquidself]

man what is your problem of course you can lump all those faiths together because they follow out of the same damn book even mormans they have the book of mormon but they still have the bible as well

so what are you doing here? do you show symptoms of the ten points or not?

also you are starting a negative vibe. i realize the OP may have offended you but try to keep the discussion peaceful

reply to post by impaired




Great points in the OP.

There is one specific thread I would love to post those ten points in... but, it would be wasted.

It's like this in there-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/773edbb836d9.jpg[/atsimg]

You know, the only thing that really gets to me about Christians, is when they accuse others of being Children of Satan, or wish hell upon me and others who do not share their views. It's like their last resort to an argument...and the sad thing is, it seems they feel good about saying those things. Like it gives them satisfaction. I have experienced this in life & on this this site.

That is when I just leave them be. Let them kiss each others arses. No point in wasting your breath.

Originally posted by liquidself
reply to post by impaired

 

I guess it s really fun and supercool to attack people s religion. Apparently you are convinced that you can convince "Christians (people you are apparently free to lump all in one conveniant category regardless of whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, Baptist, jehovah's Witness, Nestorian or Anglican) which makes you as much of a BIGOTED zeaslot as they are. Obviously your beliefs are one true faith. Why dont you enlighten us?

Are you serious????
Ok, lets get systematic here for a minute:

1: I never ONCE said I was "cool" to "attack religion". I consider myself a very humble person, and therefore I don't appreciate that assumption one bit.

1 1/2: I am not ATTACKING. I am presenting VALID arguments which you STILL have yet to argue back with! And then you ask me to enlighten you, hehe. Ok, I will - REFER TO THE OP, DUDE!!!!!

2: I put a thread up, and I will stick to my argument, but I will not go out and shove my beliefs down people's throats, thank you very much...

3: All those denominations.. What's that telling you? Why so many?
And you keep saying that I'm "lumping" - they all follow the same book.

4: Bigoted I am NOT. I am anti racism, and all about equality. I have a brain, and I am allowed to use it. This is me using it. If that's being bigoted, then wow, man. Just wow.

If the shoe fits - wear it.

Are you going to present your argument that is relevant to this thread, or are you going to try to keep derailing it?

Not going over this again.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by impaired]

reply to post by impaired

I don't have a problem with looking at the bible with a historic point of view (putting into account translation errors, archaic vernacular, etc).

The problem comes when you point out these facts to certain of people, and they scream, grit their teeth and try to personally banish you to hell for even *thinking* their book has errors- even proven ones!

If the bible has errors, These people should be looking to CORRECT them, not accuse the person pointing them out as sinners or worse. If I make something (let's say a model of the Millennium Falcon- I am working on one), and I am trying to be accurate- and someone points out an error or a few I made in my 'accurate' rendition- you can be assured I will stop my work on it, go back, and make darn sure I fix the inaccuracy to the best of my ability.

HOWEVER

It's a model. A piece of plastic. It can be broken, it can be stolen... How much LESS important is it than a HOLY BOOK?! A holy book its readers just take on blind, uneducated faith it's right! I dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather a book I base my life and very soul upon to be COMPLETELY, and without a doubt, CORRECT. And if you can find educated scholars, Hebrew language experts, and the like saying it might not be- then the religion as a whole needs to get up off their duff and do something about it!

Otherwise, just come out with a Mad Libs version and be done with it right there.

reply to post by ashanu90


Unless I m sorely mistaken the sole intent of this thread is to troll for "Christians" who exhibit one or more of the 10 "signs"; my point is that that intent is in itself inherently negative. My "problem" is that it is simply not true that because they all come from the same "damn book" that they are all therefore identical. For me this is the essence of prejudice; and if you think that the variety of different Christian religions are "all the same" then that seems like a very unproductive "vibe".

hey guys i also found this on evilbible.com its a page called common lies christians tell do these sound familiar to you?

Darwin recanted on his deathbed. This is completely fabricated and has no foundation in truth whatsoever. A woman named “Lady Hope” spoke to a church group shortly after the death of Charles Darwin. She claimed that she was at Darwin’s bedside on the day of his death. She also claimed that Darwin recanted on evolution and accepted Jesus on his deathbed. Her claims are not only unsupported, but are directly opposed by Darwin’s daughter, Henrietta. Henrietta stated “I was present at his deathbed, Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. My father never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. I am upset that the U.S. Christians have fabricated this conversion nonsense. The whole story has no foundation whatever.” February 23, 1922.

Evolution has been proven false (is only a theory). Evolution can be divided into two parts, macro and micro. Micro evolution is a fact, where as macro evolution remains a theory due to debates on the exact steps of the evolutionary process. EVOLUTION DID HAPPEN we simply can’t trace the exact evolutionary steps of the of the 3 trillion plus species on earth. Considering there is no way that we can even prove if we have located all the species on earth, this may always remain a theory. We can prove though, beyond a doubt, that humans have evolved. We can trace it back conclusively 3.6 million years. 97% of all scientists accept evolution (so does the Catholic Church). Christians have spread lies about this excessively, they especially like to say evolution preaches that Humans evolved from monkeys. Evolution does not state that humans evolved from monkeys, that idea is completely absurd. Science states that monkeys and humans evolved from a shared forefather and are hence relatives, (all primates are) but we are in no way direct descendants of them.

Atheists have no morals. All one has to do is take a look at the American prison system. Nearly 76% of violent criminals are Christian and NO, most of these Christians did not convert after conviction, they were Christian at the time of the crime. The greatest genocides in human history stemmed from the Christian faith. If you examine secular societies in comparison to religious societies; secular societies will consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share of wealth and a higher standard of living. Nearly EVERY single advancement towards morality (I.E: ceasing native genocide, freeing the slaves and women’s suffrage) was OPPOSED by the church and Christian organizations.

This United States is a country founded on Christianity. This is the biggest sack of horse # and only an EXTREME MORON would believe something this retarded. The VERY FIRST AMENDMENT of the constitution is based on the Separation of church and state. The paramount reason why the forefathers came to this country was for religious freedom. They listed it as their top goal in forming America. Matter of fact most of the fore fathers weren’t even Christian, but deist, atheist and agnostic. I could site thousands of quotes which piss on this lie from Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, etc. but I shouldn’t need to, considering the reading of the constitution is a 4th grade curriculum requirement.

There are no atheists in foxholes. I hear this one on a weekly basis and it never ceases to amuse/disgust me. One third of the world’s population does not believe in a deity. The largest concentration of free thinkers is found in Asia, which participated in each world war and have been feuding over territory with the surrounding regions for thousands of years (especially Japan and China). My father is an atheist and served during the Berlin Crisis. I am an atheist and though I wasn’t in a fox hole, I faced death while giving birth and I tell you that the thought about God NEVER crossed my mind when I heard my condition could be fatal. I have had the privilege to meet hundreds of atheists who served in WW2 and Vietnam, each of whom sat in fox holes. For more information about atheists in the military see the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers website.

reply to post by jinx880101

There is one specific thread I would love to post those ten points in... but, it would be wasted.

It wouldn't happen to be the one where I stomped out accusing certain people of slapping backs and sniffing each others butts now, would it?

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by impaired

 

I don't have a problem with looking at the bible with a historic point of view (putting into account translation errors, archaic vernacular, etc).

The problem comes when you point out these facts to certain of people, and they scream, grit their teeth and try to personally banish you to hell for even *thinking* their book has errors- even proven ones!

If the bible has errors, These people should be looking to CORRECT them, not accuse the person pointing them out as sinners or worse. If I make something (let's say a model of the Millennium Falcon- I am working on one), and I am trying to be accurate- and someone points out an error or a few I made in my 'accurate' rendition- you can be assured I will stop my work on it, go back, and make darn sure I fix the inaccuracy to the best of my ability.

HOWEVER

It's a model. A piece of plastic. It can be broken, it can be stolen... How much LESS important is it than a HOLY BOOK?! A holy book its readers just take on blind, uneducated faith it's right! I dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather a book I base my life and very soul upon to be COMPLETELY, and without a doubt, CORRECT. And if you can find educated scholars, Hebrew language experts, and the like saying it might not be- then the religion as a whole needs to get up off their duff and do something about it!

Otherwise, just come out with a Mad Libs version and be done with it right there.

This post deserves a quote and a million stars...

EXACTLY - we are here on this planet together. Lets try to get to the bottom of everything, instead of believing in something just because it fills a void.

Now, I can understand the need to fill a void - believe me. Hell, I'm doing better than I was these days, but my void is huge! Still - I refuse to go back to believing something JUST TO FILL IT.

Now, what I am going to say may offend you, and it sure as hell will offend others. I am SERIOUSLY sorry if I do. Please don't take offense (the reason I said it may offend is because you said your father and your wife are Christians).

Well, I really think that the reason people hang on to their religious beliefs (without letting go or opening their minds to other things) is because of this void.

Some people are spiritually weak (I'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!), and they NEED something to believe in.

It's as simple as that, and once again - I am sorry to offend.

They use the religion(s) as a crutch, which attaches itself to the ego (was it meant to do that??).

Then when someone challenges it, the person's ego gets challenged as well. It almost seems like these religions intentionally attach to the ego. Like it's set-up to be like that...

Oh man... Here it comes...

reply to post by liquidself

Unless I m sorely mistaken the sole intent of this thread is to troll for "Christians" who exhibit one or more of the 10 "signs"; my point is that that intent is in itself inherently negative.

Well then if you put thins that way, it is exactly what Christians do on this site...troll for people who disagree with their belief and and start circulatory arguments with them.

Originally posted by liquidself
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Unless I m sorely mistaken the sole intent of this thread is to troll for "Christians" who exhibit one or more of the 10 "signs"; my point is that that intent is in itself inherently negative. My "problem" is that it is simply not true that because they all come from the same "damn book" that they are all therefore identical. For me this is the essence of prejudice; and if you think that the variety of different Christian religions are "all the same" then that seems like a very unproductive "vibe".

1. you ARE sorely mistaken
2.i didnt pick up any negative vibes until you came in here
3.same book slightly different beliefs(except for mormons but still plausible) not prejudice, FACT
4.do you show symptoms of the ten signs or not?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by wylekat

It wouldn't happen to be the one where I stomped out accusing certain people of slapping backs and sniffing each others butts now, would it?

It is indeed the very one...

Originally posted by liquidself
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Unless I m sorely mistaken the sole intent of this thread is to troll for "Christians" who exhibit one or more of the 10 "signs"; my point is that that intent is in itself inherently negative. My "problem" is that it is simply not true that because they all come from the same "damn book" that they are all therefore identical. For me this is the essence of prejudice; and if you think that the variety of different Christian religions are "all the same" then that seems like a very unproductive "vibe".

How is it negative? Because it challenges a belief system??

Like I said - my beef is with ALL organized religion. Do I have to put up a thread depicting Islam in the same way?

And here's a contradiction right here: Ok. If all Christians are not the same, then they are in direct conflict with the bible.

^^^ That says it all. And so do the existence of multiple denominations, not to mention multiple religions...

Switch "Prejudice" with "disdain for all organized religion" and we have a deal.

reply to post by impaired

And here's a contradiction right here: Ok. If all Christians are not the same, then they are in direct conflict with the bible.

EXACTLY. A religion has no right being like a Baskin Robbins.

reply to post by liquidself


its obvious to me that your just pissed off because your beliefs are put on the spot

why dont you peacefully debate?
try to counter the religious flaws
maybe bring up some evidence to support your side of the arguement
if you are just here to bash this thread then you are in fact a troll

reply to post by impaired


I just stepped out for a smoke. I got a little too hot under the collar. Impaired; I apologise for calling you bigoted I should not have said that. If you want to know the truth I am much closer to being a Taoist than anything else right now. I have no problem with any of the 10 points you listed. My "beliefs" are not on the spot in the least. I do not even regard the bible as a reliable authority as anything other than possible anecdotal eyewitness historical testimony. It s just that I do not think that all Christians share the same belief systems, it s demonstrably false. I dislike the way that the term "Christian" has come to mean just those who take everything in the Bible literally. Organized religiion is not something that I am a part of and I have no wish to be but I do respect the desire of others to be part of it regardless. Freedom of religioous choice is part of freedom. I do totally disagree that all Christian religions and sects are the same; otherwise they would nt disagree and i assure you they all do; sometimes violently. But that in itself doesn t mean that people without organized religion are necessarily without violent or predjuced behavior as well. We all know that they can be.

reply to post by impaired

First off i am what you could call an agnostic theist. I believe very much that there is a god, but i am open to the possibility of me being wrong. To me it is just good science and good philosophy to not pass judgement on philosophically complex matters such as religion.

Your first mistake is that you are taking the bible literally, furthermore you are using the english translation as the basis for this argument. Someone already posted how the Hebrew Word "yom" has several different meanings. It can refer to a literal day or an indefinite amount of time. This is also true for other hebrew words. With that in mind if you are going to make an argument based on the bible (and this goes for all sides, christian,atheist, agnostic) you have to understand how it applies in a historical context as well as in its literary context. All sides are notorious for taking a quote out of context either deliberately or inadvertently.

Also i do not think you have done much research into where the idea of an old earth can come from via the bible. I'm not trying to bash you here since the YEC's and The mainstream atheist and agnostic movements do very little to high.

In the original literal Hebrew Text translation when god creates the earth it says that the earth was Waste and Void. Now the key word here is Waste. Why would the earth be wasted? What was it ? Was it a mass extinction of some sort? Did god hit the reset button?

Now here is where things get interesting. We all know that god said let there be light correct? But here is the crazy thing. God did not create the days directly after he created and seperated the light from darkness. It wasn't until he created the sun and moon to rule over day and night that we have the actual light sources that can clearly define a 24 hour day.


So how did god create anything in one day before days even existed?

The most logical answer (for me at least) is that god DID NOT create in literal days, Instead he created over periods of time. This would also mean that the correct translation of the hebrew word "yom" refers to a period of time as opposed to a day.

Here is another thing to think about.

The bible tells us that gods work is self evident. It proves itself to be real. What does Science do? Science shows us how things work, it relies on self-evident data that can be independently tested and reviewed for the sake of coming to a conclusion. A good scientific theory proves itself. Anyone can replicate the results of experiments based around that theory. Therefore it stands to reason that our scientific findings are confirmation of gods work. ALL SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS. So if all the worlds leading scientists say that man evolved from a common ancestor such as an ape then by default we must either assume or consider this discovery to be an actual analysis of gods work.

Simply put to spit in the face of science is to spit upon god and that which allows us and his other creations to exist.


AS for your other ten points, i think i might have some intriguing and hopefully original answers. I don't want to present anything to you that may be cookie cutter because these issues are too complex to reduce into one overall answer.