Why don't people believe in extraterrestrial life?

Originally posted by wartooth420
reply to post by The Shrike

 

okay then. lets seeeeee
theres photos ufos.
no irrefutable enough for you?
theres videos of ufos.

some fake, some real. the only way you can prove if the videos and photos are real is if you can go back in time to the exact date and time, with a video camera and document the entire time at the area in question.

No need to. I've had 5 or 6 superb sightings with one resulting in a video with an ascending passenger jet for reference. Next!

reply to post by The Shrike


your ignorance is just as confusing "the bottom line is that we are all there is in "creation" and we are our own evidence." give me proof, give me photographs and video of every square inch of the universe. and when zero percent of this evidence shows up with et life. then we can say humans are all there is in creation.

and then this:

No need to. I've had 5 or 6 superb sightings with one resulting in a video with an ascending passenger jet for reference. Next!

doesnt even make sense.
in what way does this go with your point? from my pov it entirely contradicts what your saying in your previous posts.
please elaborate further on what exactly it is your trying to say.

Originally posted by wartooth420
reply to post by The Shrike

 

your ignorance is just as confusing "the bottom line is that we are all there is in "creation" and we are our own evidence." give me proof, give me photographs and video of every square inch of the universe. and when zero percent of this evidence shows up with et life. then we can say humans are all there is in creation.

and then this:

No need to. I've had 5 or 6 superb sightings with one resulting in a video with an ascending passenger jet for reference. Next!

doesnt even make sense.
in what way does this go with your point? from my pov it entirely contradicts what your saying in your previous posts.
please elaborate further on what exactly it is your trying to say.

I don't condtradict myself. It's reading comprehension at fault.

I don't have a problem with the reality of UFOs. I have a problem with the reality of aliens. I have a problem with people who want to believe that there is other life in addition to us but who cannot provide any evidence for this other life except to quote Drake who works magic with numbers always ending in zero. Is the above difficult to comprehend?

reply to post by The Shrike


okay i see now. thank you for clearing that up.

im not going to argue any longer with you. you obviously dont want to think outside the box. i dont blame you. it can be scary outside of the box.
i wish you a happy easter.

Originally posted by wartooth420
reply to post by The Shrike

 

okay i see now. thank you for clearing that up.

im not going to argue any longer with you. you obviously dont want to think outside the box. i dont blame you. it can be scary outside of the box.
i wish you a happy easter.

Let's part as friends but be aware that I'm an atheist and easter is meaningless to me. But thanks for the wish.

But the question is: Are most UFO/Alien skeptics really unbiased and fair in their skepticism?

You show them a picture of a UFO = The skeptics immediately say it's fake.

You get the picture analyzed and prove it's not fake = The skeptics say it's a visual anomaly.

You tell them you saw one with your own eyes = The skeptics says you are either drunk or crazy.

Many UFO/Alien skeptics are more about wanting to ignore evidence than anything else.

Now when it comes to intelligent life on other planets in the universe, The Drake's equation pretty much makes it a mathematical certainty. Some things are common sense and don't need hard evidence. Modern science says many star systems are hundreds of light years away, but there is no hard evidence. It's simply calculations, and their distance is accepted as hard factual science. So no, you don't always have to have physical evidence when something is a matter of common sense and obvious by mathematical calculations.

How do you think Bill Nye (skeptic who appeared on Larry King Live) would treat someone like Travis Walton in a discussion? Nye would probably be very condescending to Mr. Walton and immediately say Mr. Walton imagined his whole abduction. Nye is hardly fair and unbiased.

Unfortunately, these are the kind of UFO/Alien skeptics that exist. They don't want to listen to anyone or see any video or photos of UFOs. Their main argument is that they want to be able to see a UFO live up-close and in-person, and only then they will believe. With that kind of attitude, how can skeptics believe in astronomy? Doesn't make sense. And these are the reasons I think that many skeptics are probably just trying to antagonize.




[edit on 5-4-2010 by Viper2]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by wartooth420

how about this. you find me facts and files that give logical proof that extraterrestrials dont exist.

How about, no, it doesn't work that way.

How about, YES, it DOES work that way.

Well lets break this down so we can deal with seperate modes of thought ...
First, most scientificaly aware people understand that the probability of there being NO other intelligent life in the universe is pretty damned low. Even the most hardened skeptics are often well aware and prepared to admit this . However, many of them believe (not without good reason it has to be said) that these beings live so far away, that even with FTL (as we mere humans understand it) it would take an improbable length of time for them to reach us, so while being receptive to the idea of the EXISTANCE of another race, they merely refute the idea that they have ever been in a position to visit here. These are genuine skeptics, who base thier opinions on what can be observed using the tools of rationality and science, allowing none of thier own fears and weaknesses to alter thier assumptions.
On the other hand, there are other modes of thought on the so called skeptic side. These are persons you could show a UFO to , who would claim even when the evidence of thier own eyes was against them, that the UFO or other proof, was nothing more than a figment of your imagination, ball lightning , a blimp or weather balloon, swamp gas, or some other such idiocy. These are not skeptics, or debunkers. These are what you call close minded stubborn xenophobes. Scared of what they cannot comprehend, terrified of changing thier drasticaly limited veiw of the wider universe, and our meaning as a race within it. They are ignorance personified. They are given ammunition however.
The ammunition so helpfully supplied to these maniacs, and cosmic nazis, come from folks who have a cultists veiw of the subject of extraterrestrial life. Those who assemble in great numbers to hear liars and hoaxers speak of galactic politics, and those who shout loudly and yet say nothing of worth, but some how say it in a way which makes the ignorant masses beg for more, and plough thier hard earned money into sham after sham , lie after lie. This bunch are an unclassifiable quantity because thier ways and lies are so varied that to lump them all under one heading is idiocy. Thier malignancy deserves labeling and surveying under the multitude of names and movements which comprise its whole.
Last but not least , you have reasonable folks, who hear and see , and make up thier minds for themselves. They will not run to be indoctrinated by either the state, or the hippy cultists either. They merely wish to know the truth, without claiming to know either way. Me personaly ? I fall closer to this mark than the others. I suspect that there is other life out there. I suspect that it has visited here, but thats about as far as I can go. I will not say Im certain of it, because I would be basing my certainty on unfirm ground. Its not a heresy to want more hard evidence before making a stand. In a world as backward and corrupting as the one we inhabit, one must be sure of his facts before announcing his position unto the world,lest he be caught up on a wave of hysteria, and sucked into the many flavoured lunacy which many others before have been swallowed by.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Well lets break this down so we can deal with seperate modes of thought ...
First, most scientificaly aware people understand that the probability of there being NO other intelligent life in the universe is pretty damned low. Even the most hardened skeptics are often well aware and prepared to admit this . However, many of them believe (not without good reason it has to be said) that these beings live so far away, that even with FTL (as we mere humans understand it) it would take an improbable length of time for them to reach us, so while being receptive to the idea of the EXISTANCE of another race, they merely refute the idea that they have ever been in a position to visit here. These are genuine skeptics, who base thier opinions on what can be observed using the tools of rationality and science, allowing none of thier own fears and weaknesses to alter thier assumptions.
On the other hand, there are other modes of thought on the so called skeptic side. These are persons you could show a UFO to , who would claim even when the evidence of thier own eyes was against them, that the UFO or other proof, was nothing more than a figment of your imagination, ball lightning , a blimp or weather balloon, swamp gas, or some other such idiocy. These are not skeptics, or debunkers. These are what you call close minded stubborn xenophobes. Scared of what they cannot comprehend, terrified of changing thier drasticaly limited veiw of the wider universe, and our meaning as a race within it. They are ignorance personified. They are given ammunition however.
The ammunition so helpfully supplied to these maniacs, and cosmic nazis, come from folks who have a cultists veiw of the subject of extraterrestrial life. Those who assemble in great numbers to hear liars and hoaxers speak of galactic politics, and those who shout loudly and yet say nothing of worth, but some how say it in a way which makes the ignorant masses beg for more, and plough thier hard earned money into sham after sham , lie after lie. This bunch are an unclassifiable quantity because thier ways and lies are so varied that to lump them all under one heading is idiocy. Thier malignancy deserves labeling and surveying under the multitude of names and movements which comprise its whole.
Last but not least , you have reasonable folks, who hear and see , and make up thier minds for themselves. They will not run to be indoctrinated by either the state, or the hippy cultists either. They merely wish to know the truth, without claiming to know either way. Me personaly ? I fall closer to this mark than the others. I suspect that there is other life out there. I suspect that it has visited here, but thats about as far as I can go. I will not say Im certain of it, because I would be basing my certainty on unfirm ground. Its not a heresy to want more hard evidence before making a stand. In a world as backward and corrupting as the one we inhabit, one must be sure of his facts before announcing his position unto the world,lest he be caught up on a wave of hysteria, and sucked into the many flavoured lunacy which many others before have been swallowed by.

When it comes to UFO/Aliens, I agree that there are probably many hoaxers out there, but there are probably many honest people also.

There are some of the UFO/Alien stories that I think are legitimate:

I believe the Roswell crash was probably an ET craft because I believe the stories of civilians who saw the wreckage and ET bodies.

I believe the Travis Walton abduction case because all seven witnesses passed lie detector tests.

I believe The WOW Signal was probably from ET lifeforms, because almost everything else was ruled out.

I believe the Betty and Barney Hill abduction story.

And finally I believe the people in the 2001 Disclosure Project (other than Steven Greer).

Yeah it's sad, there are too many dbags in the world who don't get it! Don't get affected by them, is all i can say. There are always closed-minded ppl.

How could there not be ETs, if the Universe is, pretty much, infinite in size? The amount of earth-like planets in the Milky Way alone, would boggle the mind. So there's a good chance there is life on those.

People have been brainwashed by Religion and Education too much. Who knows why they don't want us to know??

Is it because we are controlled by aliens (as in the David Icke "reptilian theory") or is the world just stupid and backward?

Check this link out as well

It's not that they don't believe in it. If you would ask the avarage person if they believe in 'ET' then they would say yes. If you would say 'do you believe ET visits earth' then most would say no or not sure.

What you have to understand is that most people either don't care wether aliens visit earth or they are not ready to accept possible presence of ET.

I would guess that about 99% of all cases handled here at ATS are fake, hoaxes, misinterpretation, mental cases or fairytales. What you have to understand is that there is no such thing as a UFO highway that happens to go right next to earth. If you look to the abundance of cases you have to say 'they are most likely not real' and so it is. For the general population this is even stronger. While I still accept 1% of the cases here as plauisble, those same cses will make the average Joe raise an eyebrow and say 'i don't know' and they continue to do business as daily.
I respond the same in most cases, aliens visiting earth? that doesn't stop my rent or my need to eat or the fact that I still have to work for my money.

I would bet my wager that even here on ATS most people are like me, just people debating over it for fun or mild interest. The actual amount of tin foil hat users that the general public fears are relative small and we should consider that most people here are merely enthuesiasts. That we are dealing with enthuesiast is obvisous, many of the so called 'proclaimed alien' or their technology are directly taken from hollywood productions. For instance, the stargates from stargate. Face it, even here on ATS we are not serious about aliens, we are mostly fun loving people with mild interest or SF lovers who want their fantasy to be real.

Originally posted by Viper2

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by wartooth420

how about this. you find me facts and files that give logical proof that extraterrestrials dont exist.

How about, no, it doesn't work that way.

How about, YES, it DOES work that way.

how about no, you are asking for people to prove something doesn't exist. you can't prove something doesn't exist, things that don't exist don't leave evidence.

you have to prove your claims, that is how a logical debate works.

Originally posted by demongoat

Originally posted by Viper2

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by wartooth420

how about this. you find me facts and files that give logical proof that extraterrestrials dont exist.

How about, no, it doesn't work that way.

How about, YES, it DOES work that way.

how about no, you are asking for people to prove something doesn't exist. you can't prove something doesn't exist, things that don't exist don't leave evidence.

you have to prove your claims, that is how a logical debate works.

Except where logic is missing as in the belief system for only believers accept that there is other life somewhere. This thread is not for the logical thinker.

reply to post by TheNewAeon2012


is that site not finished? lol. i went to alot of the sections on it. and they just contain a random photo.

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Show me a lifeform

Here is one example, this example is still being debated but it is only a matter of time before "a life form" is discovered and verified.

martian bacteria may have lived in the martian meteorite ALH 84001

www.lpi.usra.edu...

It is still hotly debated. A rock found on earth with possible bacteria on it is hardly conclusive. It would be cool if it turned out to be genuine Martian bacteria though.

Originally posted by wartooth420
let me rephrase something you said: "To date, no evidence has been RELEASED of life existing anywhere other than on this planet."
incase you didnt know, the governments of the world have been known to lie. so when these scientists do find life(which id bet anything in my possesion they have) the government will do everything in its power to cover it up.

eyewitness accounts, ancient texts, files, photos and documents, are more than skeptics have to disprove extraterrestrial life.

tell me, what exactly are YOUR beliefs? not just on this subject. but in general. whats your biew on the universe?

Sorry, but a belief that governments lie about aliens is not positive evidence of anything except your ability to reach for anything in an absence of evidence.

Let's get this clear. Skeptics are not here to disprove extraterrestrial life. Skeptics demand to be shown positive, tangible evidence. Your interpretation of ancient texts, photos, documents and eyewitness accounts add up to nothing in the way of tangible, positive evidence. They only appear to be evidence to you due to your confirmation bias. And again, I have no responsibility to disprove your beliefs; you have the responsibility to prove yours.

To answer your question I'll say I believe it's possible that life could exist elsewhere and that we should continue the search for it. Other than that, I have no illusions about alien life elsewhere and my contentions are based on the current scientific evidence available on the matter, which is absolutely none.

People do believe in ETs.
Look at the giant bug in "Alien".
So does Velikovsky.
Bugs from Venus and Jupiter and plants from Saturn.
Cosmic contact was a big thing in the pre A.D.
Beings transferred by tractor ether waves atmosphere to
atmosphere as angels moved the planets.
Thats all done with now.



[edit on 4/7/2010 by TeslaandLyne]

People who do not believe in extra-terrestrial life... those would be the knuckle dragging flat earthers who cannot see past the end of their nose.

I can go with their contention that Earth has never been visited. (Although I do not believe it for a second) but to say that there is no other intelligent life in a universe that is so big and has so many galaxies that it is totally beyond our capability to comprehend the numbers is just so beyond stupid that there are no adjectives in the English language to describe it.

Originally posted by The Shrike
This thread is not for the logical thinker.

So why are you here?

On the third page one of your posts includes the following phrase:

the bottom line is that we are all there is in "creation" and we are our own evidence.

Alas, this is a positive claim ("we are all there is") and therefore you bear a burden of proof regarding that claim. No hiding for you here. Positive claims need to be supported with evidence, otherwise you're just practicing pseudoskepticism.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by jclmavg]

Originally posted by wartooth420
i could care less if people dont share my beliefs. but when people refer to me and other people who believe in extraterrestrial life, as "schitzophrenic paranoid nutjobs". that is when something has been said.

You've made this claim several times, along with others, telling us what skeptics are supposedly saying. But can you demonstrate this is the case? Show us actual evidence of this; not just random, cynical posts, but something to show this is a widespread attitude.

Originally posted by wartooth420
incase you didnt know, the governments of the world have been known to lie. so when these scientists do find life(which id bet anything in my possesion they have) the government will do everything in its power to cover it up.

You are relying on special pleading here and trying to turn an absence of evidence into evidence.

Wartooth, I am very curious; why does it matter what any skeptic thinks? How does it affect you?


[edit on 7-4-2010 by DoomsdayRex]