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Will the Health Reform Really Help Americans?

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posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 06:36 AM
reply to post by David9176

Yet I pay "nothing" for the coverage for myself, my daughter or my husband up here. Not because we're poor or unable to afford it (well, we are, but that's beside the point)- but because the province provides it to us.

Mother in law gets it for "free", even though she makes six figures a year. her husband gets it. Father in law gets it. His Grandparents get it.

We pay taxes, not hefty once-monthly bills. Frankly, I like it that way.

When I moved up here from the states 7 years ago, I really worried about the healthcare. I was confused because of the BS that was fed to me in the states about "The Evils Of Universal Healthcare".

Would I have a bad doctor? A doctor that cared? Would I get proper medical treatment? If I went to the hospital, would I bleed to death before I saw a doctor? What if I had cancer? Oh, you know those cancer patients, they're just told they're gonna die and the treatment is minimal and too late!

What nonsense.

In the time I've been here, I've been to the emerg four times. I've had three stays in the hospital- two of those for more than three days. I've been in my family doctors' office hundreds of times. (Just to squelch this stupid rumour- we do get to choose our doctors, thanks.) I've given birth. I've gotten therapy.

I've paid for nothing but my taxes in all this time, save for the $100 for an ambulance I called for the night I mis-carried.

$100 in seven years.

I'll take that over the small mountain of medical debt I had when I left the US, thank you muchly.

Taxes? I'll take my 7.5-13.5% taxes (depending on your province) on my day-to-day items any time, over a monthly bill PLUS taxes.

If this was how Canada got their Universal health care, then you'll have to forgive me for being grateful to the sneaky bastard that slid it in there.

It's a shame it's not the SAME sneaky bastard doin' it in the us. This bill's full of so many loops it looks like a bad sweater.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 07:48 AM
reply to post by widdershins

the worst part of this bill guys is the new 16,000 new irs agents, obama and his brown civial service members as well are included in this health reform so let me get this straight going from home to college i will see not only the usual 6-9 cop cars, i will start seeing 1-2 irs agents knocking on peeps doors. As well as obamas civil service members preaching the name of obama. Not sure about you, but faill to see how this country can be any more obvious as a totalitarian police state

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:06 AM
reply to post by widdershins

I see your point, but the average American pays over forty percent of their income in taxes, not a mere 13.5 percent.

This bill is estimated to raise our taxes twenty percent to over 60

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:17 AM
I can only speak for myself and my family.

I will be helped, if you consider lightening my wallet to be a help.

I doubt that quality of my healthcare will increase.

Now I will wait for people to tell me that I should care about who all will be helped by the new program(s).

Spare me, I am not my brothers keeper.

I don't owe anyone health insurance. Or a car, TV, food, what have you.....

If any of you feel that YOU do, please feel free to open your own wallet and empty it yourself.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by butcherguy]

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:26 AM
reply to post by jam321

I agree with your statement that the Health Care Reform is here to stay, but I hope that the Republicans and Tea Part activist can at least make some strong changes to the bill.

I really feel the Health Care Reform that we need so badly shouldn't push employers to buy health insurance I mean for one thing there will be a huge amount of business making cuts to employee's pay checks and their overall employment to cover the bill. I mean I think an overall strong idea to start with would be to just expand the Medicaid services to cover all unemployed and expand it out to citizens making less than a certain amount throughout the whole nation.

But imagine business such as Mcdonalds that pays minimum wage taking a certain percent out of there employee's paychecks to cover there health insurance. I mean people making minimum wage really need every single cent they can get just survive in this economy.

I am 21 years old married with two kids an just starting my adult life and i've got a new fee that I belive i'll start paying for this year that I didn't even want, thats going to make me take more money away from my family. It's funny as soon as I get started out, our nation begins to flop.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 09:28 AM
if hcr is a reformation of health to you then you were not born in this generation or the next.all people in this current generation and the next still have to deal with the issues of insurance.the coverage of treatment is not universal; but the potential to be helped by means of a third party is now universal.

obama and the democrats shouldnt be blamed for the hcr bill. it is not based on a new platform but a revisioning of a prior one; and it is not universal healthcare: yet.

it will not help anyone now or in the generation that follows; maybe 2 generations removed from myself will it be anything that resembles universal care of health for all americans.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 09:38 AM
I personally think that this bill, regardless of how it is dressed up, is just another stepping stone to total control. Even as it is disguised to some for good purposes and others for bad, the good is a tactic to ultimately get it passed and accepted.

However, down the road we will see if it is expanded upon and used for more control, which it will be, that it's ultimate purpose was much more deceitful. In essence this bill is similar to a false flag with the emotional responses of individuals thus far. Following the hegelian dialect process, we have a problem (likely ultimately set up by the big dogs) and we have a reaction. But the solution implemented of recent is not a solution that will work and time will show that as we are fined, as our medical records are "entirely" available electronically and as other control tactics arise from this nonsense.

No matter how it is spiced up this bill is BS and will be used for further implementation of a controlled and fear ruled populace. Think about it...

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 09:45 AM
I have read some of it, and to me it looks like some sort of power grab.
and it sounds like they want to take choice out. tax the population. delay it's return. set limits on life. I stopped when I got to the microchip part and said well three striikes and I stand against any attempt at making it the law of this land.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:00 AM
This whole thing is just one big scam, just like everything that our government does.

Our current political system is nothing but a ruse, part of the the Hegelian dialectic. Republicans and Democrats pretend to be against each other, when in reality they are two sides of the same coin, which is why nothing ever really changes from one administration to the next. They are given their talking points and their action points by the money powers and they follow suit. Obama was told at the last Bilderberg meeting that not only was he going to be the next President, but that he was going to pass healthcare reform or else.

For instance, it was Nixon that started the healthcare scam in the 70's after meeting with the major insurance companies behind closed doors. It's on the infamous Nixon tapes. The very next day he announced wide sweeping healthcare reform that he knew would make the insurance industry rich, drive up health care costs, and screw over the American people. So it was Republicans that created this mess.

Mit Romney (republican) proposed the exact same plan that he had installed in his home state, when he ran for President in 08. In essance, the Obama plan is the Republican plan, yet now all of a sudden the Republicans pretend like they are against it?

This healthcare reform scam is designed for a few purposes: to create more Federal bureaucracy, create more taxes on the already over taxed American public, and to make the insurance industry that much more powerful and rich. Freedom and Liberty died a long time ago at the turn of the 20th century, with the progressive movements of Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson with WWI and WWII as the pretext. Every plank of the Communist Manifesto was used by Wilson and FDR in order to turn us into a socialist state, controlled by the world banking elites, and this is the final nail in America's coffin. That's why it was so ammusing, in an ironic sense, to see Palosi and crew referring to the founding Fathers of this country, while destroying the last bastion of freedom in this country.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:07 AM

Originally posted by AshleyD
1). Is there anything in this bill that caps the cost of premiums or deductible? For instance, let's say a family of four is forced to pay $700 a month for an insurance plan under this new bill. One of them becomes ill. But their deductible is $5,000. They can't afford it. So it seems they were forced to purchase insurance but will not be able to use that insurance because they can't afford the deductible.

if your income is below 400 percent of the poverty level, your out-of-pocket health expenses will be limited..


Also a t the bottom of this CBO document is the sliding scale summary of subsidies, limits etc.

CHART OF SUBSIDIES...scroll to the bottom

For a family of four making up to 88k Premiums will be capped to no more than 9.5% of income. Families of four making 60K capped at 8.69% of income. 30k capped at with the calculator.

Originally posted by AshleyD
2). A family of four in the lower income bracket receives credits to pay for an insurance plan. However, they have the same problem as the family above. They have a $5,000 deductible. Exactly how does this bill help them?.

By offering subsidies for the deductable as well...up to 3300 of the 5K depending on income....see the CBO report above...bottom of the document.

Originally posted by AshleyD
2). They have a $5,000 deductible. Exactly how does this bill help them?.

At this point it should be mentioned that the 5k deductable is just one option that this family has to choose from. The CBO numbers are based on the "silver" plan...there is a lower cost plan. There are also plans with lower deducatables and choosing those plans does not exclude someone from recieving subsidies. The CBO just assumes that most will choose the second to lowest cost plan.

Now I will be honest with you.

Your OP seems a near-rant, a luandry list with the intent of making a case rather than finding answers and if your intent is to simply complain or rip into the bill regardless of where the truth may be, then I have little interest in researching and providing answers to someone that might not care, but rather is coming from an ideological or emotional place.

Otherwise…I don’t want to spend time finding answers for the benefit of someone that might not actually want them.

If you have a sincere question in the OP that you have been unable to find answers to, please ask …pick an important one…and I will take the time to track down specifics for you.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:24 AM
reply to post by maybereal11

Subsidies in the form of tax breaks are not real subsidies. It's kind of like a thief stealing your wallet, but giving you a dollar out of it for some gum, and then asking you to be grateful for it. Now, isn't the thief doing you a favor? But it's actually worse than that.. The thief is actually giving you a dollar in order to buy into one of his pyramid schemes.. It's like Bernie Madoff giving you a dollar from the money that he already stole from you to invest it with him again. Only, in this particular instance the government is giving you a tax subsidie with a gun to your head, telling you that you must spend your money with these cronies. No where has this been done before in recent American history for any other industry. It's like the government putting a gun to your head and telling you that you must shop at Wal-mart and only Wal-mart. When you think about it, is there anything more Un American?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by HothSnake]

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:25 AM
reply to post by maybereal11
I would take what the cbo says with a grain of salt.

I will check my wallet when I want to know how much it has cost me.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:48 AM
In my opinion, the real issues about the health care bill that is being overlooked is, not that everyone has coverage or not. It's about one more thing that the gov. is getting away with to ultimately control the populace.
If they can ramrod a bill like this with out approval of the people, what else can they now do to take just a bit more from the people. Then ultimately total control. So I say it is freedom of choice to choose to have or not to have is the real issue.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:59 AM

Originally posted by HothSnake
reply to post by maybereal11

Subsidies in the form of tax breaks are not real subsidies. It's kind of like a thief stealing your wallet, but giving you a dollar out of it for some gum, and then asking you to be grateful for it. [edit on 31-3-2010 by HothSnake]

the subsidies are not in the form of tax breaks. least know the basics before your rant on a topic.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 12:07 PM
Great break down of the bill!

What I think the government eventually wants to do with the Health Care Bill is take over the Health Insurance industry completely. This will increase the government's overall size, status, and most importantly their revenue.

Everyone always asks how are we eventually going to pay for our debt burden Federal Budget? The Federal Budget is hugely inflated from the Stimulus Bills, the Bailout Bills, and idiotic budget deficits before and after this last financial crisis.

The taxes employed right now will not cut it and they can't raise them much higher, or that will really piss us off. So, they have decided that instead of going though the front door and taxing to get the money, they will simply go through our backdoors and windows to get it.

They planned that by passing the Health Care Bill it will bring them in a huge amount of revenue by forcing Americans to buy their insurance. This will insure that the government will not collapse if we do by helping them pay off Federal Budget deficits in a different way for a little while longer.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by tooo many pills]

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 12:18 PM
This insurance bill is nothing but a new tax on the American people that will actually lead to States having to trim medical costs and expenditures to provide the basics under it or face bankruptcy.

The Government itself will get the float on the cash (which is why it wanted this plan so desperately) but most Americans and Businesses are going to be far worse off with this new nationalized system of insurance than they were under the previous system.

The Government benefits from muscling in on the last lucrative segment of the economy which is healthcare.

The Insurance companies, drug companies and medical corporations will benefit from it, after all they wrote it to benefit them.

The American people as usual will be the big losers because they don’t ask high quality questions, demand real high quality answers or concern themselves with too much more than TV sound bites.

This healthcare plan is one of the final nails in the coffin of American sovereignty and Cap and Trade will be the one that seals that coffin shut for ever.

Government is out of control and does not serve the people but itself and the corporations it exists for.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 12:31 PM
reply to post by AshleyD

The best way to answer your question, In My Honest Opinion, the Health Reform will be costly yes, but at-least people will still have a bill and a country to complain about fixing.

Instead of shipping all the non-essential eaters to FEMA death camps, the health reform is going to allow people to die naturally, rather then treating them like chattle/cattle.

So, the reform may seem like your are pulling teeth, but in reality it is much much easier then what normally happens; Which you can see throughout history what happens when a city/country collapses.

I forgot to mention, I have insider knowledge on the funding part for the bill, I know where the money is coming from. The funding of the bill is prepaid for the next 10 years, that is straight from the horses mouth, so to say. So I know the people of America, the common hard working Joe will NOT have to pay for the whole bill.

Sure, Joe will have to pay for some of the health insurance, but not the whole dang bill.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 01:30 PM
This is going to do to the Unites States exactly what Nafta, and Cafta did. It will push more jobs right out of the country and unemployment will increase even more. There was a list of about 10 companies already that have voiced their concern over this and are threatening to leave the U.S.

Actually, these corporations probably want out anyway.
Does anyone else wonder if they are destroying the middle class just to help out wall street?

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 01:40 PM
It just seems the more I try to educate myself on this the more I am left feeling

I greatly appriciate everyone breaking this down and posting the great links.

I look at this with a different set of lenses. And it has me running scared.
Long story short I am currently surviving Kidney Cancer. And I am extremely lucky that my husbands job has great benefits (which we gladly pay for) and it was caught early. The only real form of treatment I had was the removal of my right Kidney, and follow up blood work and labs and chest xrays every 6 months. CT at my one year, (clean thank goodness) next one in 3 years. Pending all goes well.. I will be "released to my primary care doctor for labs and such every 6 months until I hit the 5 year mark.

From diagnosis to surgery moved so quickly, I was approved ASAP for surgery. My insurance was the one thing I didn't have to worry about.

I understand and agree with good medical access that is needed for everyone, and I do agree and think it is a wonderful thing that pre existing is something many will no longer have to fear and worry about..

But my fear is with this bill... What will happen to me in the future? Odds are I *should* be fine, but I do live with the very real fear that it could come back at any time. I didn't display any signs till a kidney stone landed me in the ER... and if it does come back, it is usually more aggressive and does not pop up in the one remaining kidney (usually) If this bill stays in play, I just don't see myself being as lucky with my coverage.

I never in a million years thought I would say this but... I am damn lucky to have had cancer in 2008 and not 2014.

posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 02:17 PM
In short, no.

In long, yeah probably.

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