Will the Health Reform Really Help Americans?

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posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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The same benefit of the health reform keeps getting repeated over and over again: Insurance companies can no longer deny people for pre-existing conditions. Most of us would agree this is a good thing. But I have some questions about other things we don't seem to be hearing a lot about.

1). Is there anything in this bill that caps the cost of premiums or deductible? For instance, let's say a family of four is forced to pay $700 a month for an insurance plan under this new bill. One of them becomes ill. But their deductible is $5,000. They can't afford it. So it seems they were forced to purchase insurance but will not be able to use that insurance because they can't afford the deductible.

2). A family of four in the lower income bracket receives credits to pay for an insurance plan. However, they have the same problem as the family above. They have a $5,000 deductible. Exactly how does this bill help them?

3). Businesses under this plan will be required to provide their employees with insurance. Of course, this will probably result in a spike in unemployment when companies have to lay off employees in order to afford the new tax increases and forced insurance plans. So we'll have uninsured and unemployed people. But beyond that, what is to stop these companies from buying the cheapest plans possible and leaving the employees with a $10,000 deductible?

 


The health reform bill that just passed is very similar to health care in Massachusetts on which the national bill was modeled. In other words, it seems this plan has already been tested on a small scale but has some severe problems.

Examples.

1). IT'S NOT ECONOMICALLY SUSTAINABLE


BOSTON – The Massachusetts treasurer said Tuesday that Congress will “threaten to wipe out the American economy within four years” if it adopts a health-care overhaul modeled after the Bay State’s.

Treasurer Timothy P. Cahill – a former Democrat running as an independent for governor – said the local plan enacted in 2006 has succeeded only because of huge subsidies and favorable regulatory changes from the federal government.

“Who, exactly, is going to bail out the federal government if this plan goes national?” he asked.


Mass.-type health care could wipe out economy, state Treasurer Timothy Cahill says

2). SOME CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THEIR DEDUCTIBLES OR USE THEIR INSURANCE


Although far more Massachusetts residents have health insurance coverage than residents nationwide, a significant portion of Bay Staters are still struggling to pay for needed healthcare, a new survey shows...

Thirteen percent of residents with insurance said they were unable to pay for some health services in the past year. The same percentage of insured people said they did not fill at least one prescription because it was too expensive or their insurance copayment was too high. The numbers rise to 14 percent if both insured and uninsured residents are considered.

with 97 percent of Massachusetts adults reporting they have some sort of insurance, according to the survey. Yet for some that did not translate into getting needed care.


Medical costs still burden many despite insurance


It showed that 21% of the total population–and even 12% of children–forgo necessary medical care because they cannot afford it. Of the 21% forgoing care, most (something like 18 or 19%) have health insurance–but it is health insurance they can’t afford to use.


Gruber Doesn’t Reveal that 21% of MA Residents Can’t Afford Health Care




People with robust health insurance are putting off doctors’ appointments and skimping on prescriptions because they can’t afford the increasing costs of copayments and deductibles, according to managers of patient-assistance hot lines in Massachusetts.


 


So, exactly how is this bill really supposed to help the common man and not just the insurance companies?

1). Is there a cap on premiums/deductibles?

2). What prevents companies from buying their employees cheap plans that come with a $5K-10K deductible and extremely high co-pays?

3). How will the problems that are taking place in Massachusetts be different on a national scale?

Does anyone have any insight on these questions/issues?

IMO, it seems like all this bill really did was raise taxes, pass crazy legislation that forces citizens to purchase something against their will (or out of their budget) or face fines, benefits the insurance companies when they accept their payments from their clients but won't have to pay out when clients can't afford deductibles and co-pays, etc.

The only good thing about it is the fact we can't be denied for pre-existing conditions. But nothing was done to include tort reform, nothing was done to regulate the crazy costs of medical care itself ($75 for an aspirin at the hospital for example), inflated prescription medicine costs from pharmaceutical companies, to ensure people would be able to afford to actually use their insurance once they were forced to purchase it, etc. Or was there? Honest question.




posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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eventually the gov't will realize this is just making things worse and amend it or something. i thoughtthis bill was a good until i read this
great thread



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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Thanks Ashley, this are the same questions that I have been trying for figure out and have people understand what it all means.

Already we know that Insurances will not and never be regulated as the two proposed bills to do that were not added to the health care Reform this two bills are now stand alone bills that neither the two parties in charge in congress wants to touch.

Antitrust enforcement in the health care industry did not make the cut for the final heath care overhaul package unveiled Thursday. But an amendment to make Medicare have a bigger role in the health care Reform did, so those paying taxes are to be now facing no only mandatory private insurance but also any additional taxes to cover the new and bigger Medicare monster

The excise tax will result in employers switching to plans with higher co-pays and fewer covered services.

No because they are to hurt the tax payer and the people, but because they are to hurt the private insurance industry.

The Irony . . .

Got mandatory health care?

But can you afford to use it?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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Healthcare implementation broken down by year


Within the first year:

* Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.

* Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

* Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

* Uninsured adults with pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.


www.telegraph.co.uk...

Fact sheet


Myth 1: This is a universal health care bill.

Fact: The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance. According to the Congressional Budget Office:


* Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million

* Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million


Myth 2: Insurance companies hate this bill.

Fact: This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.
The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint vice president. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%.


www.huffingtonpost.com...

Possible employer loophole


Under H.R. 3590, a $750 penalty on employers per full time worker not covered if the employer has 50 employees and at least one of their employees qualifies for a premium subsidy in the exchange. H.R 4872 increases the penalty to $2,000 but exempts the first 30 employees from the penalty calculation.


rsmmcgladrey.com...

It will help some Americans. It is not perfect by no means and I predict that with each implementation, the flaws will begin to show.

BTW, Might want to keep an eye on this guy.


Aside from the secretary of health and human services, the presidential appointee with the most power over the future of the American health-care system is the director of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Medicare and Medicaid are the country's largest insurers, and reforms and ideas that begin in their shops often spread through the rest of the system. That's a big part of the theory behind the independent commission empowered to reform Medicare: Good ideas that work in Medicare will quickly migrate to the private insurance market.

But CMS has been leaderless for the past year. That was a bit weird, because it's an important job entering a critical time. The Obama administration, however, is finally announcing its choice for the position, and Don Berwick, head of the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, is getting the nod.


voices.washingtonpost.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Well another problem also that Massachusetts faces, private doctors and health care practitioners can opt out of giving treatment to people under certain insurances, just because you can not be deny by the private insurance it doesn't mean that you will find a doctor that will fall under the HCR.

This bring an issue of Shortage of practitioners.

Now what will happen at a national level can become another problem that could many people face while looking for doctors under the HCR.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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so wtf is obama and the democrats thinking with this bill?
i used to be a democrat until this happened but now i realized that either party is #ed up

and now i remember something i learned in jr high
george washington said to avoid political parties
i think i see what he meant now



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 



so wtf is obama and the democrats thinking with this bill?
i used to be a democrat until this happened but now i realized that either party is #ed up


Yep, Dems for, reps against.

Don't buy the hype. Reps wanted this to pass just as much as dems.

For one, they can use the issue against the dems. Furthermore, reps can add their own touch to the bill once, or if, they regain Congress.

Healthcare reform is here to stay.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Notice what happened to Insurance stocks after the bill was signed?

thinkprogress.org...
money.cnn.com...

Savy investors saw this coming a mile away! For real news read the WSJ.
I made a few bucks day trading, so I guess the HCB helped this American.











[edit on 30-3-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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edited for content


[edit on 30-3-2010 by David9176]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 




Within the first year:

* Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.

* Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

* Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

* Uninsured adults with pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.


Yup. But notice that once again, the 'benefits' that keep getting pressed into our noses don't answer the question as to how people will afford to use their insurance.

In other words, let's say an insurance company has to insure a cancer patient or a parent with three children under the age of 26. Great, so they got the benefit of the pre-existing condition reform and the age extension.

But let's say that person has a deductible worth thousands for the treatment and an unaffordable co-pay for prescription that they can't pay.

What good does it do them to not be denied for having cancer or being able to cover their children if they can't use it anyways.



Myth 1: This is a universal health care bill. Fact: The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance.


I think most Americans understand it but those from countries that offer universal health care seem to be missing that point. It's not socialized medicine.


Myth 2: Insurance companies hate this bill. Fact: This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.


I definitely think insurance companies are going to profit off this bill more than anyone.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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if healthcare stays and none can pay for it...then what?
all the poor are going to be in prison and with so many people in prison taxes will go up to pay for their healthcare and food then suddenly the middle class cant afford it and they go to jail and taxes go up more then the rich go to jail and taxes go up and then the uber rich go to jail eventually even politicians go to jail then everyone is in jail and their al locked up then americans die of starvation cause nobody is there to feed them and then america pretty much ceases to exist

i think that was extremely overdramatic but am i wrong for the most part? am i even in the ballpark?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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Oops.

[edit on 3/30/2010 by AshleyD]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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The biggest disappointment of this bill is that it failed to hold people accountable for their own health. I mean, I DO NOT want to pay the medical bills for someone that doesn't give a damn about their own health and so they overeat, never exercise, and smoke, etc. You have to have a good driving record in order to get affordable auto insurance, and I think the same should be true for health insurance. If you don't care enough to keep yourself fit and healthy through a little preventive care every day, then why should I give a damn about your health?

I'd get behind this socialist health care thang if it was made mandatory that everyone exercise intensely for an hour a day, you must maintain proper body weight for your height and frame (or rather, you must keep your body fat within an acceptable percentage), and you couldn't smoke, couldn't engage in risky sexual conduct that would result in STDs, etc.

Who would want to be part of an automobile insurance plan that included a bunch of drunkalcoholics that like to drink and drive?

This whole health reform thang just happened to damn fast without anyone stopping to analyze the ultimate outcome of all this a few years down the road.

Seriously, we could cut health care cost by so damn much if everyone only REALLY cared about their health and took really good care of themselves. But, americans are the worst of the worst on this planet when it comes to taking care of their health, we are at the top of the list with the greatest percentage of obese couch potatoes, and I sure don't want to pay for that, and I'm NOT GOING TO! I do not want to be part of any collective health care plan that involves americans, good gawd no, not until THEY start caring about their health themselves.

I recommend everyone flip uncle sham the finger on this one.

And, Americans, prove to me that you REALLY DO care about your health .. try to match the obese statistic of a country such as South Korea! Until that day happens, I'll know which among you all don't really give a damn about your health just by looking at ya. Oh, and stay the hell out of McDonalds, ha. You eat there and that's proof you couldn't care any less about your health .. so why should I?

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Divinorumus]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I no doubt see your point. I have always said that this bill has not one single guarantee that premiums will go down or that healthcare costs will be reduced.

About the only guarantees are the taxes and fines.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Perhaps the Public option will come under the Umbrella of Medicare.

If the President plans to have Medicare by 2017 the biggest insurer of all then this will become the Public option.


The 16 million additional people expected to join state Medicaid rolls will mostly be poor, childless adults. Through 2017, the federal government will provide a 100 percent subsidy to cover such people who live in states being forced to expand Medicaid.

But after 2017, Washington will decrease that subsidy, meaning that states will have to pick up some of the costs. By 2020, the federal subsidy will be about 90 percent.


A venture this big with an already underfunded Medicare will only spell trouble for states are are already having budget problems.


Under the new health care reform plan, 16 million more people are expected to join state Medicaid rolls. Recognizing the costs involved, lawmakers have tried to cushion the financial impact on states. But many governors believe the expansion of Medicaid will still be too costly for them.


We all know from where the money is going to come to pay for all this, the tax payer, more taxes and more burden of debt.

www.allvoices.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


"Supposedly" there is an amendment in the bill that was added by Bernie Sanders that would enable States to have a public option on their own...using Federal Funds.

I can't provide proof right now on this however. Sanders has been a huge Single payer advocate and was unhappy with the bill.

This similar to how Canada ended up with universal healthcare.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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Impact of Health Care Reform on Premiums
The impact of health reform on health insurance premiums will vary significantly by market, due to the fact that the new and existing rules differ between the individual, small employer and large employer markets. There will also be differences between individual states. Please click on the state below to see information specific to the impact health reform will have on premiums in that state.


www.wellpoint.com...

Let's not forget the impact state mandates have on health insurance.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


Well, that sound good but that is why some states will be winners with the extended Medicare coverage and some will lose.


Eleven states, plus the District of Columbia, could come out as winners. They’re so-called expansion states, which already cover childless adults to some extent. They could gain because the federal government will absorb an increasing amount of their obligations.


See is already states that offer more coverage to Medicare, but remember that even a public option by state will bring and increase of local taxes to the citizens.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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so is it the common man's destiny to simply die out? or will their be a happy ending to this issue?



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by ashanu90
eventually the gov't will realize this is just making things worse and amend it or something. i thought this bill was a good until i read this
great thread

Don't count on the government amending anything. Their agenda has been met. The object was to drastically increase our taxes to impoverish America. Once impoverished, America will not be as able to resist the take over for the North America Union or a takeover by the UN that Obama seems to be promising. The banking cartel, the same one that supported Hitler and manipulated us into the cold war, that wants to dominate the middle east oil resources and is espousing depopulation, that same banking cartel that has invented the Democrat/Republican paradigm, has America by the throat. Our legislators are sold out to them. Even Kucinich capitulated. No legislator besides Ron Paul and Oklahoma's two senators should be returned to office. Any legislator who still believes in the people should do something drastic, like throwing a shoe at the President, if they want to be reelected. Impeachment procedings would be acceptable. The republicans are equally culpable. They were allowed to vote against the healthcare bill for form only. If there were enough votes to stop it, some Republican's arm would have been twisted to pass it. Our legislative branch doesn't belong to the people any more. Our government doesn't belong to the people. If we don't do something soon, we will find out soon what Nazis really look like.





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