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Death Panels: Now the media talking openingly & chuckling (video)

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posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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article:

"People on the right, they're simultaneously screaming, 'They're going to send all the old people to death panels,' and 'It's not going to save any money,'" NYT Reporter Paul Krugman said.
Another panelist interjected, "Death panels would save money," to which Krugman responded:


The advisory panel which has the ability to make more or less binding judgments on saying this particular expensive treatment actually doesn't do any good medically and so we are not going to pay for it. That is actually going to save quite a lot of money. We don't know how much yet. The CBO gives it very little credit but, but most, most of the health care economists I talk to think that's going be a really, uh a really major cost saving.


Source: www.wnd.com...

Wow, after he says this statement, watch the woman in the red outfit. I think she didn't like it [as in "You just let the cat out of the bag] but the rest sure did. So much for the MSM-as if you didn't know already.

Disgusting is the best word I can describe what is taking place to the citizens or the US-and most of them don't realize it yet. Those in Washington know exactly what the heck is going on. GET THEM OUT ASAP.











[edit on 3/30/2010 by anon72]




posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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theres no link to the source... id like to watch it!

thanks



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by bredd77
 


It''s there now.

Must have been a little too mad to have included it. My bad. Enjoy



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


Um, I think you are not understanding what is right in front of you.



"...this particular expensive treatment actually doesn't do any good medically and so we are not going to pay for it. That is actually going to save quite a lot of money...that's going be a really, uh a really major cost saving."


Anyway, you'd prefer a panel of insurance company bureaucrats deciding what is or is not covered, knowing that insurance companies exist solely to make a profit??!! Are you mad?

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. I thought conservatives were all for rationality and common-sense. Why would a conservative want the government to pay for expensive treatments that don't work? Stop spreading lies, paranoia, and disinformation.

[edit on 3/30/2010 by skunknuts]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by skunknuts
 


The first talking point was-

There will be no death panels. That is a Republican lie.



Now the talking point is-

Well, the insurance companies have them, just now it will be government controlled.



Classic obfuscation and denial.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


No, no you don't get to do that. It was the use of the BS term 'death panel' that obfuscated us away from a rational discussion about reforming healthcare. Again:

I thought conservatives were all for rationality and common-sense. Why would a conservative want the government to pay for expensive treatments that don't work? Stop spreading lies, paranoia, and disinformation.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by skunknuts
 


Um, how so? Read it in context, watch the video. Do the panels exist in teh HCR or not? Was Palin right or not?

And to answer you question about who I would like to decide these matters etc? Yes, at least with an Ins. Co. a person/family has the right to challenge any decisons made by a private company by complaining to the Gov't Regulators who THEN can determine if a violation of the insurance policy occurred and force the company to comply (or pay damages in the event the person passed away).

With the POTUS plan, the Gov't now becomes the big ugly insurance company and there are no avenues of recourse for adverse decisions and/or settlements.

And, no I am not mad. I rather ask you that question: Are you mad for entrusting the Gov't to run the death panels and being the last stop-no recourse or appeals?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by skunknuts
 


Um, how so? Read it in context, watch the video. Do the panels exist in teh HCR or not? Was Palin right or not?

And to answer you question about who I would like to decide these matters etc? Yes, at least with an Ins. Co. a person/family has the right to challenge any decisons made by a private company by complaining to the Gov't Regulators who THEN can determine if a violation of the insurance policy occurred and force the company to comply (or pay damages in the event the person passed away).

With the POTUS plan, the Gov't now becomes the big ugly insurance company and there are no avenues of recourse for adverse decisions and/or settlements.

And, no I am not mad. I rather ask you that question: Are you mad for entrusting the Gov't to run the death panels and being the last stop-no recourse or appeals?



Dude, look at your jumbled logic. So, the ultimate safeguard in your for profit provided healthcare universe is a government panel of regulators that rules on a treatment's validity? Can you see how twisted the argument you have just made is? It's not worth your integrity to try to hide the fact that Palin is completely full of it.

Meanwhile, it is proven that insurance companies will delay, hopefully
until the patient gives up, or worse. Yes, I trust my government over a for profit insurance company. In other words, if I could CHOOSE to join Medicare, I would.

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. Checkmate

[edit on 3/30/2010 by skunknuts]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by skunknuts
 


There are too many assumptions with this "board".

First I would like to know what kind of medical education they would have had and whether these "board" members are currently practicing and what their specialty would be.

Because my first question is why have the test available if it doesnt work? If my doctor is requesting a certain test it usually follows he has ordered this test to prove or pisprove certain conditions.

Why would I want a bunch of beaurocrats choosing whether or not ihe test is worth it... and to what is the "worth" being based on.

If there is no liability clause, they are not responsible if they make the wrong decision.

Where is the culpability?


Casing

edited for spelling / clarity



[edit on 30-3-2010 by Casing]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by skunknuts
 



So, the ultimate safeguard in your for profit provided healthcare universe is a government panel of regulators that rules on a treatment's validity? Can you see how twisted the argument you have just made is? It's not worth your integrity to try to hide the fact that Palin is completely full of it.


I didn't say a panel of regulators. I said regulators-investigators etc. Yes, that is the way it is now and it works pretty darn good (except a few cases-I agree).

And, they don't judge on the treatment validity-they rule on if the purchased policy owned covers what the health problem is etc as agreed to when purchased (by free choice mind you). They would determine if the CONTRACT between the two parties was adhered to and then rule accordingly. Its a private contract-the Gov't becomes the arbitrator-if needed. Please explain how a system of Insurance has been running for close to 200 years in the US is twisted?

Worth my integity about Palin? Full of it? You still didn't answyer the question of: Was Sarah Palin correct about panels that determine if a person dies/receives care-or not? about time you start looking at the POTUS to see who is full of it.

Look, we disagree. You aren't going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. If I may suggest (and I don't mean this disrespectfully) do a little research on the history of Insurance , what insurance is and how disputes are handled (and ). More people need to learn what inusrance is/means. I can tell you now, what Obama is pushing is not insurance-it is control.

Lets not contiue the arguement/discussion here. I think our two points are well articulated. U2U me if you wish.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


See, that's it exactly. I don't see what 'insurance' has to do with healthcare provision. We all need healthcare, that is a fact. Trying to twist that fact is why the US pays more than twice per capita for healthcare, with embarrassingly poor outcomes compared to our peer countries (as well as other countries that have no right outperforming us).

Best,
Skunknuts



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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First off, sorry I refuse to accept anything as valid from WND. I realize for some of you it might actually seem fun, like riding a jet ski or boinkin' a porker. Truth is you just wouldn't want your friends to catch you doing it.

And for serious seconds, am I the only one who finds it odd that the suggestion is now being made that the insurance companies are now going to run "Death Panels?" It would seem to me they have a vested financial interest to keep you alive in order to keep sucking the high premiums. Businesses don't seem to last very long if their goal is to kill off their customers.

It was a lie when the half-term, fancy pageant-walking Governor spewed it and it is a lie now. There are no Death Panels. Geez, you people make Birthers seem intelligent.


[edit on 30-3-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 




"odd that the suggestion is now being made that the insurance companies are now going to run "Death Panels?" It would seem to me they have a vested financial interest to keep you alive in order to keep sucking the high premiums. Businesses don't seem to last very long if their goal is to kill off their customers.


Bingo-that is what needed to be said-Great point.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by kinda kurious
 




"odd that the suggestion is now being made that the insurance companies are now going to run "Death Panels?" It would seem to me they have a vested financial interest to keep you alive in order to keep sucking the high premiums. Businesses don't seem to last very long if their goal is to kill off their customers.


Bingo-that is what needed to be said-Great point.



He's not agreeing with you, and that quote does not support your position.

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. At the time one becomes significantly sick and in need of treatment, it does make sense to kill them off (or drop them as they do now). That's, again, why the whole notion of 'insurance' is currently being perverted.



[edit on 3/30/2010 by skunknuts]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:11 PM
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They are call End of life assistance for those that are beyond medical help, it doesn't matter if they are young or very old.

They have been around for a long time, now they are made into a big deal because the HCR.

Still the government is no deciding about anything, private insurance companies will as the usually do.

My grandfather lived to be over 100, he was send home to die after his prostate cancer and his age were no longer acceptable for treatment.

He lived for over 25 years with prostate cancer.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by skunknuts
reply to post by anon72
 


Um, I think you are not understanding what is right in front of you.



"...this particular expensive treatment actually doesn't do any good medically and so we are not going to pay for it. That is actually going to save quite a lot of money...that's going be a really, uh a really major cost saving."





Anyway, you'd prefer a panel of insurance company bureaucrats deciding what is or is not covered, knowing that insurance companies exist solely to make a profit??!! Are you mad?

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. I thought conservatives were all for rationality and common-sense. Why would a conservative want the government to pay for expensive treatments that don't work? Stop spreading lies, paranoia, and disinformation.

[edit on 3/30/2010 by skunknuts]


Its called a free market. We need health care reform but we don’t need gov't controlled health care. We should be able to shut down insurance companies that do not adhere to contracts without going to our leaders, simply by not buying their product.

We need reform that takes the monetary incentive away from our gov't to allow this debacle to continue, but you cannot fix this problem by replacing one set of slime bag crooks with a bigger set of slime bag crooks that have more control and big guns.

You must have failed to recognize the utter failure of our gov't to do anything within a budget or execute legislation that is in our best interest. What have they done well lately? Last 10 years, last 50?

The whole point of the "death panels" topic is that once the gov't has totally squandered all the money they were supposed to be saving with their streamlined program, what are they going to do? Cut spending on what is deemed to be untreatable disease, then the less productive members of society, then those who disagree, next up political dissident.

Don’t think it can happen, well maybe you would benefit from some history lessons. These types of things have happened.

Final point, with our lovely leaders in control, they will control what new treatments are tested, determine by the rules they make up what is and is not treatable and what drugs are made. Do you really want them in control of that? Sure maybe you do now since your boo is in office but what about when the next repub gets in office? By then it may be too late.

They already allow the FDA to ignore natural cures, allow them to kill more people in the US than anything else with their drugs and are working on removing vitamins from your grocery store shelf. Do you want them to remove the middle man (that is free market opportunity) all together so you can have "free health care".

HUH? did you say you trust these goons? They don’t care about you and if your agreement with them is substantiated because your boo is in office, wait a while and don’t bother repenting when some dumb repub is lining his pockets with back door deals as a result of this, it will be too late.

The whole lot of them is crooked and if you cant see it it, I am willing to bet you have not read enough history.

I can see it now, well sir you are going to have to stop competing in MMA fights its not good for you, and oh by the way that beer you had last week, well be deducting your account for $500.00 for failure to adhere to our 1 beer a month policy



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


The insurance companies will not exist. It will be the Guberment who decides if you are worth treatment.

They will be disolved once they are no longer able to line our politicians pockets.

Third line just cuz im sick of this crap.

Damn would you people please please go read some books about history?

For crying out loud you are on a conspircy site and you cant see the power grab?



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by skunknuts
 


Do you not understand that the bill forces every person to join a health care provider by force? Can you not comprehend this? That shatters your entire arguement. DO you actually believe anything you are saying.

you think health-care insurance is bad? Ok thats fine.

Now that you have established that. Lets have government make everyone join a private health care company! Sir i know its not your fault. Its not. People double speak all the time and youa re picking up on it.

I fail to see how having everyone join a bad health care company that is for profit will improve the situation.

The gov has the power to regulate insurance as it is right now. Why are you forcing people to join something that you agree is a bad thing?

Idk if you noticed but gov is not providing any care or health they are getting in the middle and telling the insurance companies and hospitals how to do it.

The men who destroyed the economy and you think it is a great idea to make them the middle man? Are you even alive?

Here is what i love. You let gov take over health care when they have a 14trillion dollar debt in our name? you are asking for a flat out disaster.

It is simply and only ideologically In correct to hand that power over to an entity that has ran up such debt.

Sir let me tell you something. When its all said and done you are going to wish barrack never signed that bill.

When you are lying in your bed suffering and the gov decides you are to ill for health care. or there is a financial disaster and the money you paid for health care is squandered on wars and whatever. I hope you have the gull to place the blame squarely where it belongs.

There is a reason why medicare and Medicaid is broke pal they rob from it and put ious in the pile. They rack up debt on the ious and you are stuck trying to prop up the system like we are now.

If you are going to be a citizen, at least don't be naive of the robbery that is going on around you.

Oh ya take ur tin and prop up ur banks and medicare. Im done with you.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by skunknuts
reply to post by endisnighe
 


No, no you don't get to do that. It was the use of the BS term 'death panel' that obfuscated us away from a rational discussion about reforming healthcare. Again:

I thought conservatives were all for rationality and common-sense. Why would a conservative want the government to pay for expensive treatments that don't work? Stop spreading lies, paranoia, and disinformation.


They can't, their whole belief system is built on a lie. They can't admit they have been duped by the right, so they have to stand their ground and stomp their feet and insist that there are death panels. Poor pitiful souls



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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This is what I don't understand.

First of all, there are no death panels. Funny, for all those comparing Obama to Hitler, it is those same ppl using propoganda that Reichsminister Goebbels would be proud of. So who are the Nazis here?

Secondly, if there were death panels, why is it ok for insurance companies to decide who gets coverage in the name of profit margins rather than Government?

You're all mad.



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