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Strange Rock Carving

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posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:14 PM
reply to post by okbmd

There are lots of indian artifacts in the area (arrowheads, celts, pottery shards, that sort of thing) that are still turned up by the farmers' plows every spring. This ridge and the one adjacent to the west seem particularly artifact heavy.

The Shawnee used a strip running down through WV, Southwest VA, and into eastern Kentucky as hunting grounds, and the same area was claimed by the Cherokee. The last major battle between those two tribes over that territory was fought in 1769 on a mountainside near Tazewell, VA, which the locals still call "the War Gap". the name "Kentucky" is alleged to come from the Shawnee, and originally covered this entire swath of hunting grounds.

As near as I can tell, the Clinch River in Southwest VA was the de facto dividing line between the two tribes, with both claiming both sides of it, but only having real control of their respective sides. When Richard Henderson bought Kentucky from the Cherokees, one of the Cherokee "sellers" flat out told him that now that he'd bought it, his problem was going to be keeping it.

The Shawnee refused to settle there for the most part, because of an ancient legend that the Shawnee had wiped out an entire race of red-haired giants in the area called the "Azgens", and they maintained that the spirits of the Azgens were still pretty ticked off at them, and would allow no settlement, only allowing hunting to feed the women and children when hunger threatened. There was one Shawnee settlement in eastern KY named Eskippakithiki ("blue waters place") for about 20 years, but it never became a permanent settlement. Bulltown, in Braxton Co., WV is claimed to have been Shawnee, but was probably Delaware. It was erased by white settlers,who killed off all the inhabitants.

I mention this bit of history to explain why I don't really think most of the artifacts there are either Shawnee or Cherokee, but rather probably from an earlier tribe, such as the Conoy, or maybe even the Azgens. Most ancient legends have at least a grain of truth to build the legend on. This doesn't look like any of the Indian remains I've sen from that part of the world, but that by itself can't preclude a whole new design, or an individual initiative.

The paintings on the rock at Paint Lick Mountain (near the War Gap) are heavily weighted towards thunderbirds, sunrises or sunsets, and stick figures in canoes, interspersed with animals like turtles and beavers. I'm not as familiar with the WV petroglyphs, though. I've not seen anything like this on indian artifacts, so if that's the case, it would be pretty unique.

In sw VA, where I was raised, the geology is mostly karst - limestone and diorite. This rock LOOKs like some sort of diorite, of a grayish color with a bluish tinge. Not being familiar with the geology of this area, I can't say whether diorite is found in any appreciable quantities.

Slate always looked to me to be some sort of dense, compacted shale, with the layers cleaving tighter together. I've seen both blue and red forms of it back home, and this rock doesn't look like either one. The grain is coarser than slate, which DOES make pretty good whetstones.

I've tinkered with pecking and grinding (mostly limestone and diorite), and don't think this was made by that method. Pecking usually leaves a "U" shaped channel, and in this carving, in the outer circle in particular, the bottom corners, while somewhat rounded, have a sharper angle than I would expect if it had been pecked out.

as a side note, just imagine how frustrating it is to peck out a little celt, maybe 3 or 4 inches long, and be mighty nigh finished after 4 or 5 days of meticulous pecking, only to have one of the final finishing blows turn it into a handful of gravel right before your eyes.


posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:26 PM
reply to post by GideonHM

Whew ! Now , do you have anything worthwhile to contribute towards the actual content of this thread ?

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:37 PM
reply to post by GideonHM

Thanks for that! Is was beautifully written, and captured quite a bit of my own thought on the subject.

I think of myself as a pretty down to earth guy, and generally gravitate towards the simplest solution for anything, But over time I've seen things in those hills that I just couldn't explain without invoking metaphysics.

I have 3 sisters who all claim that I'm a "witch", but really, I'm not. I just look at things from a different angle, and so come to different conclusions from a logical extension of that view, which then happen more often than not. Nothing really 'mystical' about what I do, to my mind.

From a metaphysics approach, as I've mentioned earlier, I've been plagued by bursitis in my shoulders for about 10 months. It got so bad that I couldn't raise my arms above shoulder level to scratch my head in perplexity over this stone. After I brushed some of the debris off of the surface, it seems to have gone away, and hasn't come back yet to any great degree. Matter of fact, the day afterward, I was on a hillside cutting firewood and tossing 70 and 80 pound chunks of wood down the hill like they were matchsticks, which would have been impossible for me just 2 days before that.

Now, I didn't feel any sort of 'tingle' or 'power' come out of the rock, it just felt like a cold, hard rock, same as any other, but the fact is, the bursitis isn't bothering me anywhere NEAR as much as it was. I can't attribute it to any 'energy' from the rock, but it DOES seem a strange co-incidence to me.

Then again, co-incidences sometimes happen.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:38 PM
Double post. Computer burped. Sorry 'bout that.

[edit on 2010/4/1 by nenothtu]

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:38 PM
Triple post. Computer burped harder. See above.

Stupid machines!

[edit on 2010/4/1 by nenothtu]

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 01:39 PM
Get someone who knows how to use a metal detector and search the immediate area of the carving. A lot of times symbols like this indicate a nearby cache.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:39 PM
reply to post by okbmd

Take your banana and go back to the jungle.

You understood nothing of what was posted because you can't understand why someone would argue with the current issues we are facing as humans.

This tree of life represents everything our society is not. If you really think hard, you might understand why I posted what I posted.

You didn't post anything to the topic at all. That must make me stupid for questioning your reasoning from your perspective.

You need to evolve or you will be nothing more than a howler monkey in gym shorts thinking he is special. Evolution is what this outcropping is all about; the planet herself is evolving to a more pristine state and all you can do is think I am wasting valuable time and effort.

You do not decide any laws, rules, regulations, or behaviors FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF. Yet, by proving my point, I have to realize that your attention span probably shorted out, it was a long post.

If you can't take the time to reread the posts on ATS until you fully understand what is posted, then it is easy to see why you want people to ignore what I have to say.


Hush and you could learn. Don't act like a lower order life form and people will respect you, but I just don't see that happening.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:00 PM
reply to post by GideonHM

To the contrary, I have been contributing to this thread since it was started.

So, back at ya. If you had been following the thread, you would see that I have been an active part of it.

But then you come along , having contributed nothing so far , and use the post to vent your pent-up frustrations about the world , to the world.

Just what did your post actually do to help the thread in any way ?

This thread is about trying to figure out what the OP's carved rock is about, not your soapbox to tell everyone what mindless idiots they are .
I'm sure there is a thread in here somewhere that would be appropriate.

So, don't come at me with your un-resolved parental conflicts. I am a big boy, not some scared little child that you can intimidate. Sorry that you don't have gas money for your broom .

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:03 PM
reply to post by nenothtu

Thank you.

I hope your ailment continues to improve and I deeply recognize your sentiments.

Honestly, the truly toxic people on Earth won't be able to even look at that picture without being sick. Gaia is fighting back against all the abuses against not only her, but the good people who are only trying to make a decent living.

Gaia doesn't care if we build roads and work at fast food joints, but if that is all one looks for in life, then they are just a machine and lose their connection to the fact that WE ARE ANIMALS.

The difference between us and the great apes? Behavior ONLY. Monkeys and apes never achieve sophistication in our terms because they can never move beyond their animal behaviors. We have to transcend those behaviors in order to actually get somewhere in terms of society and enlightenment.

This magical appearing rock formation is a scientific proof of the living nature of the Earth. Every monkey like person will simply ignore my words and will go back to their junk food and punching old ladies at Christmas for the last action figure doll on the store shelf. For them, buying trinkets is all life has to offer, and they are literally becoming a sub-species.

After 40,000 years of devolution, they will literally regrow body hair and everything else that we consider to be lesser traits in the primates that led up to our current evolutionary state. Evolution goes up, and down.

If you weigh 350 pounds, sit on your ass all day watching TV, and tell everyone else how stupid they are, you will be marginalized. If a member of a society does not contribute to the overall well being of their social grouping, then social law necessitates expulsion. Not prison, you can't have an overweight psychotic slob thinking that their behaviors are equal to someone who is in Uganda trying to save starving people from their corrupt governments.

All behaviors are not equal, and a large grouping of people will just see this magical occurrence as an insult to their deeply ingrained, non-thoughtful, and destructive behaviors. The Earth will now begin to drive out socially destructive behaviors by flooding everything with the pure essence of life, and a lot of evil people are going to get really sick.

Just watch the coming events, and be glad that our mother can and will stick up for the little people. Then we can get the smart, socially conscious people to make the decisions that lead to a beautiful future. As opposed to the current strata of completely stupid morons killing everyone for a quick buck that just sticks them in prison.

You will see.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:11 PM
reply to post by okbmd

All you said was this:

"ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME".

Your evil is sealed and you will never harm another soul in your life again.
Contribute to a positive society, or get the hell out.

You are attacking people to destroy their faith. You will never again take advantage of the beautiful gifts that Gaia has to offer. She can see and feel you, now get your ducks in order or you will get very sick. You have no further connection.

So mote it be.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by GideonHM

So,do you weigh 350 pounds and set on your ass all day watching t.v. ? You certainly fit the part of telling everyone how stupid they are .

All of your mumbo-jumbo means absolutely nothing to me , so go ahead and take your little chants and spells to whatever level you feel that you must . All of that garners just as much respect from me as any other dogma that fails to prove itself .

You are off-topic in this thread .

Again, why not try to put forth something constructively related to the rock instead of trying to derail the thread ?

How do you suppose the rock made it's 'majical' appearance ?

Please do not try to blame the troubles of the world on the cheeseburger I had for lunch , while you impart your great wisdom and knowledge to all of us 'monkey-people'.

You really are quite amusing .

Abra-cadabra, I got a cold brew waitin' on me ...

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by okbmd

Great! Thank you for your input. I’m currently attempting to piece together the cultural aspects of early inhabitants. I had originally focused my research on the Shawnee however art work associated with this tribe does not fit the criteria of the carver ( post to follow) I have uncovered several similarities in the habits and beliefs of tribes associated with the area yet haven’t narrowed down a particular suspect. I will give you a sneak peek of something interesting. Hopefully your input will assist in identifying the artist. Back to digging.

“Indian maps made on skins or mats may be given to you, by individuals, but are not kept permanently among them. Sometimes in sand, hills designated by raising sand, rivers by hollows, etc.” (Jackson, v.1)
....William Clark

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:46 PM
reply to post by nenothtu
I’ve dug up about as much as seems possible on the Conoy ( included in following post) I think you may be onto something about this legend. I agree the Shawnee are not the carvers, however the research is has linked belief systems like the branches on the tree ( ironic) It’s all coming together as stemming from a parent source. I still think Phyllite is the best candidate but as I’m piecing together all this info to post, Ill further research Diorite. It’s the patina that seems inconsistent with Diorites properties but hey I’m not there, I’m working off really good pics. Identifying the rock will assist in identifying the carving method. Regardless of what the rock is, Iron Oxide is still our best bet in dating the piece. I’m still hoping somewhere out there is a dork (such as myself) with a good bit of time on their hands, who is willing to read through to that particular post and post the equations. I gather you’ve found nothing of interest in the cave or crevice. Im off to pull this all together Its 6:45 FL time I’m shootin to post by 10. Then we can all tear that apart as well

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 06:11 PM
Evidentiary support of Phylites maleability
Metmorphic Rock

Phyllite, a semi-soft grey stone, is sculptured into a large variety of utensils with the help of indigenous hand operated lathes to make bowls, cups and plates of various shapes and sizes..

[edit on 1-4-2010 by MsAmen]

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 07:49 PM
This is why ATS is such an awesome site. I would never have considered researching rock carvings like this until I stumbled across this thread. To me, the most charming thing about the whole affair is the mystery - the fact that what is unknown is drawing people together to discuss and reflect.

I would hasten to add that Gideon's posting is a wonderful example of hypocrisy. 'Peace and love, harmony with nature' and so forth seems to be the intended interpretation of his/her messages - therefore it is stunning to note how acidic and quite simply 'nasty' his/her perception of humanity really is. Judge not, lest ye be judged and all that.

So in closing, Star and Flag for the OP, and thanks to all genuine contributors for an extremely absorbing read.

PS - Gideon's idea of magical earth emanations would have been an interesting consideration, had they been presented with less hatred. Similar to what some believe about crop circles...

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 07:59 PM

Originally posted by nenothtu
The circle itself is the deepest part of the engraving, and has the squarest cut sides. Looking at the circle, the "tree" pattern appears to almost be an after thought.

Pounding with a hammer and chisel gets tiring after many hours.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:12 PM
reply to post by NoahTheSumerian

And here I was worried about being THAT guy at the party.

I would have thought Gaia would demand a bit more civility from her chosen.

If those truly are my only choices, I believe I' ll go with the apes.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:38 PM
reply to post by MsAmen

No, the crevice held nothing of interest. It seemed a good place to me to camp out, but nothing was inside it. The outer 5 to 8 feet would make a good camp site, and keep the rain off of one, with enough room to maneuver around and build a fire and whatnot. The inner 10 to 15 feet was too low, and would require crawling on your belly to get into. The roof was 12 to 18 inches off of the ground, tapering down towards the rear wall. There is a vein of water running down the rear wall, which dissipates into the floor back there. At the mouth of the crevice, there is a large rock (towards the carving, visible in the photos from the western hillside and the shot from upstream) that would provide good cover for anyone camping in the crevice, and wanting to watch out for approach from the mouth of the hollow.

To be honest, it just appears to be a good camping spot, with good defensive capabilities. There was no evidence of any camping in it, but there's no telling what may be buried under the dirt to indicate past camps there. Not far from this rock is a maze of rocks that has 'beds' hollowed out in it, and what appears to be a cooking area. I've never seen that particular maze, and only heard about it this evening. I probably won't get a chance to visit it on this trip.

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:42 PM
Im tempted to throw out the Native American carver theory( I have my reasons) and will be needing a few more hours to delve down a different path before posting the piece ( I have entirely too much time on my hands)

posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:43 PM
reply to post by prof-rabbit

Prof, I e-mailed the full res pictures of the carving to you, per your request, but got a server timeout error message. The server said it was going to try a couple more times before giving up, and I haven't heard any more form it. Did you get them?

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