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What did you expect? Idea's about sustainability

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posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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What did you expect when you gave the government the power to attempt to solve complex social problems through propagating violence? That's like saying, "Nazi's are bad, so lets round 'em up by the trainload, put them in special camps, and systematically kill them in poison showers".

There is a widely held belief that humanity needs to be controlled because it is in the interest of freedom, progress, and justice. That humanity is a cruel creature, and without being controlled, will consume itself and bring tremendous harm to itself. Then, in order to maintain control, gives the power to a group of people so that they can alleviate societies ills.

Does anyone see the problem with this?
Premise: Humanity needs to be controlled because we are capable of great evil.
Conclusion: Give all the power and control of violence to a select group of humans, from the very pool of humans that require controlling.


_____________________________________________________________________________
This being said, it is no wonder that the government can only sustain itself and the stability of society as long as it does not kill its host. With this in mind, the parasite of government grows as it takes away freedoms, and as it grows it requires more resources while simultaneously impairing the ability for society to create resources. At some point, the host can no longer sustain its parasite.

This is the story of mankind. Peoples lives are wasted away serving some Feudal Lord until the people cannot live under such circumstances. At which point, they revolt and put into existence another system for control. This time, the system has different goals, enemies, and leaders, but the same results are imminent.



The US is undergoing the process of destroying the host. The government is taking much of the resources from society at a level that is completely unsustainable. Add to this the borrowing against future generations and counterfeit currency that is inflation.

In 1922, Germany was undergoing an accelerated host deconstruction. LINK It led to riots, hyperinflation, assassination, and eventually the priming for National Socialism and the Nazi party. This entire process is so eloquently called "The Road to Serfdom".

Hyperinflation is the father of chaos and can only happen in situations where the government has devalued its own currency so much that it loses its entire value. The US is actively pursuing this in what seems to be an end itself. The government not only causes inflation, but uses inflation as a revenue generator when our taxes aren't enough to pay for its malfeasance.

Inflation itself is when the amount of units of currency goes up or inflates. This makes prices go up accordingly. Only the government can inflate currency when it has a monopoly over the issuance of it. Side Note: Governments like inflation because their debts lose value, hence why they cause it. Deflation on the other hand, is the bane of government. Deflation only benefits the people as the value of their labor would increase.



So I say to the statist... What did you expect? Do you think the DMV would still be open if a private company offered the same services? Hell no. It only exists because competition is not allowed. That's why it is so inefficient, costly, and unsustainable. Now we want the government to have greater control over the health and wellness of the country. Why? Why health care? Why not farming too? Farming is more important that health care anyway. Why not allow the government to control that, since it is so important? THIS IS WHY

What did you expect by ignoring history?
What did you expect when bowing like a lowly peasant to tyranny?
What did you expect when you allow the government to leverage your life and the lives of your children for the sake of promoting more violence and funding inefficient programs?

Keep voting, see if it helps. Fall right into the false dichotomy that is politics in the US. Keep believing that the Republicans and Democrats are vastly different. Keep believing in repeatedly failed egalitarian wet dreams. Keep killing for democracy and some perverse sense of pride for that which you have no control. Keep being a patriot, and for God's sake don't ask too many questions. Watch Fox and MSNBC and regurgitate the talking points like a good subject. Sing songs about your love for a country that rapes, steals, and kills in the name of peace.
Keep being ignorant, and deny logic.

Who in their right mind thinks this is sustainable? That is insanity, stupidity, and ignorance. Reality is about to hit us in the coming generations, and your grandchildren may have to make a living killing people in the thunderdome.

When repeatedly warned of the empirically proven outcomes of your actions, how can you expect to deny a reality? Lemmings




posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Oh!! I liked this a lot!!

A great perspective, thanks for this.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by DINSTAAR

This is the story of mankind. Peoples lives are wasted away serving some Feudal Lord until the people cannot live under such circumstances. At which point, they revolt and put into existence another system for control. This time, the system has different goals, enemies, and leaders, but the same results are imminent.



And bearing in mind that this repetition will occur again, the new system that will rise to replace this one is, in fact, the new world order that people think they are fighting against. It will most likely come through the morphing of religions as they have merged into interfaith groups and renamed themselves under various umbrellas.




Originally posted by DINSTAAR
Do you think the DMV would still be open if a private company offered the same services? Hell no. It only exists because competition is not allowed.



Update. You can now obtain your drivers license at triple A offices.



Originally posted by DINSTAAR
When repeatedly warned of the empirically proven outcomes of your actions, how can you expect to deny a reality? Lemmings


So you have outlined much of what has been constantly repeated---reiterating the problems we all know, but still offer no solution to break the cycle. What are your ideas to side step it, Lemming?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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I don't believe a society can be sustainable. There's some strong belief in individual freedom being the be-all-end-all of societal harmony. This belief prefers to ignore failures of the system that others face, the idea that the only one who matters is the individual, society be damned.

I strongly believe that every generation is greater than the last, the greatest generation is the one not born yet. We can take ideas and reshape them and, hopefully, make them better. Planes don't fly on linen cloth and we build more products with aluminum. Apollo 9 astronaut Michael Collins once remarked how his five year old wasn't terribly impressed with him flying to the moon, while his father could hardly believe it.

You make mention of the control of farming the Chinese government had, well, do you realize the amount of control the American government has over farming? The policies over the late seventies and the eighties? More corn is grown for processing than is made to eat.

As Alethea mentioned, you bring up a lot of the fallacies in the current system but offer no solution. It's like giving a homeless man a wall-mounted piece of art because you think it's beauty must be shared.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 




And bearing in mind that this repetition will occur again, the new system that will rise to replace this one is, in fact, the new world order that people think they are fighting against. It will most likely come through the morphing of religions as they have merged into interfaith groups and renamed themselves under various umbrellas.


There is already a unified religion. Its called Statism.



Update. You can now obtain your drivers license at triple A offices.


At some AAA offices you can, but the primary functions of the DMV will never be fully implemented in the private sector. The issuance of drivers licenses is still tightly regulated such that a competitive market is not possible. Also, keep in mind that AAA is a lobby group as well as roadside assistance. I am sure some level of political backscratching went on if they were given the ability to issue drivers licenses.



So you have outlined much of what has been constantly repeated---reiterating the problems we all know, but still offer no solution to break the cycle. What are your ideas to side step it, Lemming?


hmmm..... "still offer no solution"? I have offered a solution many times. Even if I had no solution, why would you continue running toward the cliff? Obviously, the first thing to do is stop running toward the blasted cliff.

To be quick, the solution would be to stop doing things that have empirically proven to be flawed, and embrace freedom as an end itself rather than stability. Government actions in order to ensure stability do just the opposite, and stability is the preferred and natural state of humanity. Stability, which the government claims to provide, is actually a side effect of freedom. Only in situations of state monopolistic control over force do we get wars, genocides, and poorly planned economies.

Just look at recessions and depressions in the past. Government controls or intervention literally caused them to happen in the first place and actions taken by the government to end the recession, make it longer. Everything the government creates is a worse product and costs more than if it were created by individuals in the market.

I could get into the details of how to change the world, but I and many others have done so previously, and it would take all night. I suggest reading anything by Murray Rothbard, F.A. Hayek, or on a more minarchist perspective, Ron Paul.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:47 AM
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very good post

S&F

kinda boggles the mind free
of the cobwebs that have been
looming in there recently.
Thanks for the post.
I enjoyed it



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by links234
 




As Alethea mentioned, you bring up a lot of the fallacies in the current system but offer no solution. It's like giving a homeless man a wall-mounted piece of art because you think it's beauty must be shared.


It is an absolutely ridiculous notion that no solutions have been presented. Maybe not in detail in this thread, but the ideas have been presented for decades. Stop acting like they don't exist.

When the central planning is itself the problem, the solution is to stop central planning.

This statement like a psych patient asking for a solution for him cutting his wrist. The solution is for the patient to stop harming himself. Simply stop. People have gotten so dependent on centralized planning that they cannot see a bright future without it. Like if the government stops planning, society itself will not function. We would all be barefoot if the government didn't produce and distribute shoes.




I don't believe a society can be sustainable. There's some strong belief in individual freedom being the be-all-end-all of societal harmony. This belief prefers to ignore failures of the system that others face, the idea that the only one who matters is the individual, society be damned.


Egalitarian ideas, when implemented by force of government, do not work and lead to great human atrocities. The idea that 'society' is damned if the individual is empowered is propaganda of the highest order. To focus on society as a whole is to dehumanize the people and marginalize morals in favor of some 'greater good' methodology that is just poorly disguised tyranny. I hope your children like MARCHING



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


In accordance with the Eugenics movement which is in the process of being reborn and effected by the consumate selfishness of the NWO globalists who wish to enjoy an earth made new, the Georgia Guidestones display for all who can read (in several languages) that the goal of the NWO is to reduce the Earth's population from 6.7 billion to 500,000,000 over the next 5-10 years.

After all...it's all about the Earth and a sustainable society.

Text of Georgia Guidestones:

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.


2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.


3. Unite humanity with a living new language.


4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.


5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.


6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.


7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.


8. Balance personal rights with social duties.


9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.


10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.







[edit on 30-3-2010 by sarahross777]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:27 AM
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Then there's British Prime Minister Gordon Brown's "Green Leader", Jonathan Porritt who in order to build a sustainable society is advocating for England's population of approx. 62 million to be reduced in half by 2035-2050.

"Green Leader Calls for Halving U.K. Population"

petemurphy.wordpress.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by sarahross777
 


Interesting post. I think what is most telling about the Guidestone is its language. The usage of the word 'guide' is quite contradictory. That's like saying we were guiding Iraq when we bombs the hell out of it and killed thousands of innocents.

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

Maintain is a scary word. That is exactly what I am talking about when I say group-think or egalitarian ideology is dehumanizing. To say that to control population is called maintaining is the words of a sociopath.

2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.

Reminds me of "The Road to Serfdom" where all your aspects of life, including fitness, health, and wellness are centrally planned.


I don't know exactly what to make of the Guidestone, and I don't know exactly what to think about a macro multinational group of puppet masters pulling the strings with the intention of implementing the Stone's ideas. I do, however, know economics and that freedom precipitates innovation, human progress, and enlightenment.

I am sure we are headed toward a fascistic super state. Centralization seems to be the end people think they need.


This is how we will become.
Soon, because making grocery lists is a good thing, the government will mail you grocery lists and then people will wonder how they ever got groceries without these grocery lists. In fact, they will probably rewrite history and say that people always got grocery lists from government.



After all...it's all about the Earth and a sustainable society that benefits the Fuedal Lords at the expense of the individual.


I fixed some spelling in your comment. Maybe I added a few letters. I dunno.


edit:



Then there's British Prime Minister Gordon Brown's "Green Leader", Jonathan Porritt who in order to build a sustainable society is advocating for England's population of approx. 62 million to be reduced in half by 2035-2050.


What the UK should do is send all their smart people to the US. That way, no one can oppose such an idea. They can all move to Wyoming because there is a lot of room there. I am sure we'd have 'em. We could sure use a few more intelligent people here.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by DINSTAAR]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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The following is the true face of today's UN Environmental Sustainability Movement:

"The Ruling Elite’s Agenda for Global Population Reduction!"

socioecohistory.wordpress.com...

Few people seem to realize this. Most cannot accept that there is a Illuminati Satanic ruling elite that wants to bring global population down massively. What is this manufactured A/H1N1 swine flu about? You guessed it! Paul J. Watson provides the evidence:

The World’s Elite Are Discussing Population Reduction
As was reported only last month by the London Times, a “secret billionaire club” meeting in early May which took place in New York and was attended by David Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Bill Gates and others was focused around “how their wealth could be used to slow the growth of the world’s population”.

We questioned establishment media spin which portrayed the attendees as kind-hearted and concerned philanthropists by pointing out that Ted Turner has publicly advocated shocking population reduction programs that would cull the human population by a staggering 95%.

He has also called for a Communist-style one child policy to be mandated by governments in the west. In China, the one child policy is enforced by means of taxes on each subsequent child, allied to an intimidation program which includes secret police and “family planning” authorities kidnapping pregnant women from their homes and performing forced abortions.

Of course, Turner completely fails to follow his own rules on how everyone else should live their lives, having five children and owning no less than 2 million acres of land.

In the third world, Turner has contributed literally billions to population reduction, namely through United Nations programs, leading the way for the likes of Bill & Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet (Gates’ father has long been a leading board member of Planned Parenthood and a top eugenicist).

The notion that these elitists merely want to slow population growth in order to improve health is a complete misnomer. Slowing the growth of the world’s population while also improving its health are two irreconcilable concepts to the elite. Stabilizing world population is a natural byproduct of higher living standards, as has been proven by the stabilization of the white population in the west. Elitists like David Rockefeller have no interest in “slowing the growth of world population” by natural methods, their agenda is firmly rooted in the pseudo-science of eugenics, which is all about “culling” the surplus population via draconian methods.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


"Maintain is a scary word. That is exactly what I am talking about when I say group-think or egalitarian ideology is dehumanizing. To say that to control population is called maintaining is the words of a sociopath." [my emphasis].

Amen to that, Brother.

Look at how the COMMUNIST regimes of Stalin and Mao Tse Tung resulted in the deaths of 20 and 50-70 MILLION people, respectively.

Why do people in the Western developed nations think that given a conducive political climate (as we have today) such a fate CANNOT befall them too?

I would venture to guess that Karl henrich Marx and his Marxist PROGRESSIVE sociopolitical ideas were known to both Stalin and Mao Tse Tung, just as these same ideas as known to today's American President and his administration.

THIS is why American small businesses will not add workers to their payrolls. Everyone is at their core very unsettled.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


Have you heard about who our "masters" will be?

It is being said that the conservative segment of the American populace is so disappointed in the left's ability to respect the Constitution, that when given a Presidential candidate for the 2012 elestion who is the literal antithesis of Obama and his minions [a "trusted" individual from the ranks of the military, Petraeus?], they jump at the chance an install a personality who is even more dictatorial than Obama.

Here's what must be also understood. The CIA as you are likely aware began perfoming operations domestically and not just in foreign lands. I have included a couple of articles that by their very title should clue ANYONE in on what kind of madness we are rather likely to face in the not so distant future.

"How Was The CIA Formed?"
By absorbing the Nazi war criminal infrastructure

by Jared Israel
23 December 2003

emperors-clothes.com...



"Documents reveal CIA recruited five of Eichmann's associates"

Haaretz | February 5, 2005
By Yossi Melman

www.infowars.com...


The American foreign intelligence service known as the CIA was formed along side MI-5 and following its inception underwent Nazification of thought and process and has since been turned inward in its purview.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 03:39 AM
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Build a tower to see it fall.
Chase freedom to become lost.
The way to understanding is traveled.
It certainly has left a path in the wild.
Disconnection reveals our lack.
Communion heals our lack.
Expiration reveals our lack.
Gracious judgment heals our lack.




It's all about who you know. The problem is not whether or not there should be leaders, only an idiot thinks all men to be equal in gifts, rather, the problem is not knowing your leader. Where the disconnection begins between Shepherd and Sheep, also begins the downward cycle. Where communion joins Shepherd and Sheep, also begins the upward cycle.

I come from a place where the the Shepherd gives strength to the Sheep who are weak. The Shepherd raises Them up to be strong. I come from a place where the Sheep know that They were provided for by the Shepherd, despite the riches that They have been clothed in.

Anyway... most people just look like hamsters in a wheel to me. False Shepherds and Lost Sheep. I wish I could help them more. The False Shepherds destroy rather than build up, and the Sheep become rotten rather than ready for slaughter.

For the Sheep who are made ready for slaughter, they are sat at the table and the Shepherd calls them Shepherds. The Shepherd has no need to eat, but gives to those who have utterances of Charity within them, and makes perfect those who have utterances of Order within them.


I have stopped looking for a perfect kingdom in this realm. My home is not here. However, as any rational person, I intend to make myself as much at home as possible for the duration of my visit.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by sarahross777
reply to post by DINSTAAR
 

I would venture to guess that Karl henrich Marx and his Marxist PROGRESSIVE sociopolitical ideas were known to both Stalin and Mao Tse Tung, just as these same ideas as known to today's American President and his administration.


Are you suggesting that communism would have existed without Marx? Anyone who takes a modern day course in intro sociology knows who Marx is, as would anyone who takes a intro course to political studies.

A spectre is haunting North America...


It is being said that the conservative segment of the American populace is so disappointed in the left's ability to respect the Constitution, that when given a Presidential candidate for the 2012 elestion who is the literal antithesis of Obama and his minions [a "trusted" individual from the ranks of the military, Petraeus?], they jump at the chance an install a personality who is even more dictatorial than Obama.


I mentioned in a different thread that this is how Hitler came to power, disenfranchisement with the leftists in Germany led to the popular election of the extreme-right candidate.


...the Georgia Guidestones display for all who can read (in several languages) that the goal of the NWO is to reduce the Earth's population from 6.7 billion to 500,000,000 over the next 5-10 years.


You do realize the guidestone was erected 20 years ago, don't you? The concepts behind the ideas are almost 400 years old.


Egalitarian ideas, when implemented by force of government, do not work and lead to great human atrocities. The idea that 'society' is damned if the individual is empowered is propaganda of the highest order. To focus on society as a whole is to dehumanize the people and marginalize morals in favor of some 'greater good' methodology that is just poorly disguised tyranny. I hope your children like MARCHING


I daresay your whole point in writing this is to espouse some great ideal in individual freedoms, which you've yet to mention directly, only to chastise any idea of progress of society. Let me tell you now, freedom for one does NOT equate to freedom for all.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by links234
 





I daresay your whole point in writing this is to espouse some great ideal in individual freedoms, which you've yet to mention directly, only to chastise any idea of progress of society.


So this idiotic, self-serving, unsustainable course with which we seal our very destruction is an 'idea of progress'. When the system collapses, I will be neither surprised nor ill prepared.

Modern ideas of social justice, and egalitarian ideas have repeatedly proven to work in the opposite fashion than intended.



Let me tell you now, freedom for one does NOT equate to freedom for all.


The old idea that man can only be free if freedoms are taken away.

This is like when Bush said that we are going to save the free market, by destroying it.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


So the idea of slavery and women not voting is ok with you? Those are rather egalitarian ideas. Even the concept the United States is built upon is egalitarian, are you advocating the abolishment of the constitution and the bill of rights because it's words are too egalitarian?

It's a big, not oft used, word. Careful where you throw it around and how you associate it.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by links234
 




So the idea of slavery and women not voting is ok with you?


You have successfully beaten the straw man.



Those are rather egalitarian ideas.


Obviously when I say egalitarian, I mean social egalitarianism and any and all use of force to make people seem 'equal'. Redistribution of wealth and social justice are what I am concerned about. Refrain from feigning confusion when you know exactly what I am talking about in order to bring up irrelevant arguments that further my very point that its impossible to logically defend the statist position.

When the state tries to make people 'equal' by way of theft and coercion, the outcome tends to be opposite the intention and makes people more unequal.



Even the concept the United States is built upon is egalitarian, are you advocating the abolishment of the constitution and the bill of rights because it's words are too egalitarian?


Not in this particular thread, but I have repeatedly been outspoken against the constitution in the past. It has proven to be ineffective at controlling the tyranny of government. The constitution, as a document, does not grant people rights. To equate the constitution with human rights is utterly ridiculous.

Back to the idea of slavery. I am a slave three months out of the year to a corrupt system that uses my very funds to kill, maim, and enslave more people.

Just because we are free-range chickens doesn't mean we are free. Eventually we will be consumed by our masters.



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