That's my King! Do you know him?

Yeshua, Ani ohev otcha...... My King...

I strongly disagree!

reply to post by oliveoil

Naa sayers, Religion answers the two most important questions that science can never answer. -By whom the universe was made. - and for what purpose. how can we know how to use anything correctly if we dont know what its purpose is?

You must be kidding me... please tell me this is a joke.

Why does it have to be 'whom', why does it have to be someone? Because the Bible says so?

What purpose does the Bible give? For a so called 'God' to have servants to worship 'him' and who will bow down to him... & if they do not, they will succumb to eternal damnation in hell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If 'God' really gave me a choice or so called 'free will', I would rather he did not create me. Because I need more than a human written book full of threats to keep me in line to believe in an all mighty all loving God.

The way I see it, God would not want me to believe with blind faith. And if he wanted me to believe in him, he would show me why.

I'm sorry, but I will not be a pawn in the power struggle between God and Satan (if they even exist in the way the bible portrays them) - who are competing for the most followers.

If the cost is eternal damnation, then so be it. But somehow, I don't think things will turn out that way.

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by DisappearCompletely

 

Well, I am at work so I can't view that video, please sum it up. What are the basic arguments? Is he speaking of "benefical" mutation? Please give me the core arguments, because I'm sure I have an answer.

No, he's covering a wide variety of topics that IDers try to use to discredit evolution in a technical fashion and also destroys intelligent design's claim as science. Do yourself a favour and watch the video. Oh yeah, and he's a devout catholic as well as one of the top biologists in the US.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Naa sayers,
Religion answers the two most important questions that science can never answer.
-By whom the universe was made.
- and for what purpose.
how can we know how to use anything correctly if we dont know what its purpose is?

Yeah, still waiting on proof for that though. Why do you think science will never answer these questions? People would have thought that flying in airplanes or going to the moon was an absurd idea based on heresy and magic 2,000 years ago and now we take it for granted.

Luke 18:18-19

A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

- JC

reply to post by DisappearCompletely


Ok, well without seeing the video and based on your post, I can already completely disprove what this "scientist" is claiming. First of all just because an ape has less chromosomes then humans, does not an anyway shape or form prove that we evolved from them. He is extrapolating (read: interpreting) this evidence to fit his own PRE-conceived beliefs. So again, his "empirical evidence" leads to a FAITH BASED conclusion.

Now, you (as in you personally) show me how less chromozomes in apes directly and apsolutely means that humans evolved from apes. I bet that you can't do it, and I am 100% confident that neither can your Pasto... I mean scientist.

Empirical evidence of evolution would be to SEE an ape over time evolve into a human. Not to come to SECONDARY conclusions based on unrelated biological fact.

Once again, please bring me some non-faith based evidence.

Originally posted by trueperspective

Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by trueperspective

 

I don't want to derail this thread or anything, but if the OP doesn't mind I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for you to elaborate and let me obliterate your claims....

Wow...what a lovely Christian way! So understanding, forgiving, loving, patient and kind. It's great that you guys are constantly mirroring the way of your God.

Reading through these forums, it's an experience on it's own to see the true colors of Christianity. I never knew sarcasm was one of the traits your God loves to see..I'm sure he'd be proud to see how his flock represent him and his ideologies.

Yes you are right, however when it comes to mockery of my God there is license to be bold and be ready to give a defense for the hope that is in me. I do not consider it arrogant to stand firm and be bold for my Savior. God has chosen the foolsih things of this world to make fools of the proud and "wise" of this world

Sadly I believe it was your "king" who denied you that very license when he taught you yo "turn the other cheek" and "judge not lest ye be judged".
You've judged and now so have we.

reply to post by OldThinker




I do admit....


I did actually really like "The passion of the Christ"

reply to post by damwel


well, I know that it a great tactic to use the Bibles teachings against those that claim it all the while mocking the one who gave it, but unfortuntely you are wrong, and you neither know the word nor how to divide it. Judging is far different then defending.

I challenge you to find one place in Scripture where a believer did not stand for his/her faith. Just for a reference I will show you some.

Here's what Stephen concluded after giving a weighty apologetic for Christ. Doesn't sound like he "turned the other check" does it.

You can stand on the word of God or be crushed by it. Satan used the Scripture also to try and condemn the people of God. You are no different then your father I see.

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53 you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”

reply to post by DisappearCompletely


You should just get out of this thread, you are not going to get anywhere with this...unless you have a hammer and a chisel to break the concrete blindfold these people wear. You are wasting your energy here, as you can see- your opposition does not supply any proof of their claims either so this would go on forever.

They have accepted something as their truth and have stopped searching for any alternative explanation other than what they were taught since childhood.
To them, it feels right- to us it doesn't & I don't even agree with evolution completely... I have my own beliefs but none of them are concrete, the more I learn the better. There is so much mystery in this world, and if I was religious I could kiss learning about them with an open mind goodbye. I know, because I've been there.

You must understand, it is their right to believe what they want. And just as we dislike them trying to convert people to their belief (even by force or war, or murder)... is it neither our right to try and 'convert' them to our belief.

You can give them the information and participate in healthy debate- but there is a point where one must cut their losses and move on to better things. You cannot make them believe it.

You know the saying- You can lead a horse to water....

reply to post by trueperspective

but unfortuntely you are wrong, and you neither know the word nor how to divide it.

Who are you exactly to make that statement with complete accuracy?

I have a strong feeling that he/she probably knows as much as you do about the word. And it is probably the reason they did not follow it.

EDIT-

Satan used the Scripture also to try and condemn the people of God. You are no different then your father I see.

Now you are calling this person, whom you know nothing about- a child of Satan?

You do not have the right to make such judgments. And I can see the hate in you for writing that sentence. No true person of God would say such a thing.

I was told the same thing once, that I would burn in hell for reading anything other than the bible. And that was the last straw for me...from that moment I was done with Christians. Good job!

[edit on 23/01/2010 by jinx880101]

reply to post by jinx880101


i am a begger, a wretched man. I am nobody and I do not speak for myself. If you find offense in my words, know that they also were offended at my King Jesus to the point of putting Him to death.

I will not apologize at the "Rock of Offense" and "The stone of stumbling" If you can understand, understand.

reply to post by trueperspective


Can't believe people actually starred your post.

Evolution has been studied and observed both in lab conditions and in the field. And you even aped Kirk Cameron bringing in a creature similar to the famed CROCODUCK, which is just as absurd an idea as your duck lizard. Kirk Cameron, is that you?

Evolution does not permit for one family to suddenly shift into another family, evolution takes millions of years and whatever something evolves into would have more in common with its ancestors than with something that is an entirely different kind of animal. That's the basis for evolution, genetic and physical traits that are closer related to certain sets of animals would denote a common ancestry, just as our genetic closeness with Chimps denotes that at one time there was a common ancestor.

Evolution has already found many many many transitional forms which fit even the strictest definition of transitional however Archeopteryx, found in Darwin's lifetime, is still the best and most obvious proof of evolution.

So while evolution has wracked up enough proof to become just as scientifically sound a theory as, say, Germ Theory, magical creation ex nihilo has not and cannot produce any evidence to support itself.

Your second point proves nothing. Studying the past can be done by studying what is STILL HERE LEFT OVER FROM THE PAST. We've got millions of species running around on this planet and we've found that they physically and genetically related to each other and that the only conclusion supported by the evidence is that they evolved to be that way through genetic variation and beneficial mutation.

We've detected the background radiation of the Big Bang, this is an infinitely better look at the Universe than slapping a "GOD DID IT" sticker on it. You see science actually looks for evidence to back up its claims and when enough evidence is piled up to prove something YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT ON FAITH.

The only element of science I can see that is based on faith in the slightest is the belief in Dark Matter and Dark Energy, but EVEN those have been detected by gravitational effects and given a name because of those effects.

Science is evidence based
Faith is ignorance based


Edit to Add: In an on-going attempt to not derail threads I ask that any replying to this post please send me a U2U instead so we can continue the discussion there. Out of respect for ATS and for OT the OP

Second Edit: Dear trueperspective, you apparently didn't even read all the way through my post the first time. I have forwarded a U2U to you in response to your below response. Do not further derail the thread.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

reply to post by trueperspective


You might want to read my edit...

I have nothing more to say to you after what you wrote (my last quote taken from your post)....

You have lost all respect from me.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


How do you know evolution takes millions of years??????

HAS ANYONE LIVED THAT LONG TO SEE IT????
Where is the empirical evidence that you boast of??
Where is the direct, indisputable evidence that evolution MUST be the answer and that there is no GOD. You are drawing secondary conclusions.

For example, Science can empirically show that a "species" of animal can "evolve" when introduced into a new environment, then they jump all the way to concluding that a "family" (example: Canis lupis) can evolve over millions of years into another "family" of animal.

That is drawing a non-emipirical conclusion based on unrelated empirical study. Science does this swith-a-roo all the time.

Accept your faith and be happy. I am happy with mine!

Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by trueperspective

 

You might want to read my edit...

I have nothing more to say to you after what you wrote (my last quote taken from your post)....

You have lost all respect from me.

Ya know, I have learned over the years that Christians are in a lose-lose situation anyway. If I am nice to you and don't try to persuade you of the truth you will be punished in Hell. If I say the truth, whcih Jesus PROMISED would offend, you will hate me and "lose respect" for me.

I will give you a parable.

Let's say a bunch of your friends liked to snort coc aine all day every day. You like it to and you enjoy there company. Then another friend that you have known for a long time, but does not share your affinity for drugs, pleads with you to stop the drugs. That friend tells you to leave your other friends and that you can do better.

Which is the better friend??

Religion was created to control the public. To make them fear in doing harmful things and things they consider morally wrong. And it works....

Originally posted by Reign02
Religion was created to control the public. To make them fear in doing harmful things and things they consider morally wrong. And it works....

And what was secular science created for?

reply to post by jinx880101

Originally posted by jinx880101
I was told the same thing once, that I would burn in hell for reading anything other than the bible. And that was the last straw for me...from that moment I was done with Christians. Good job!

Hi

First of all, I just want to make it clear, that I’m not defending, what was said by the other poster…

I sense you have had a very bad religious experience in the past, I don’t know what it is/was and it’s not my place to ask…I just wanted to say that you shouldn’t let other peoples actions/words put you off, from believing in God. Men’s doctrines maybe wrong but God/Father is real. Whoever said you “would burn in hell for reading anything other than the bible” does not know God/Father.


- JC