The Myth of Pedophile Priests

I think this book would be more popular, if they just didn't look so much like pedlers.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/59a91254efff.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Kapyong

Originally posted by FortAnthem
The Church did not do anything ethically filthy.

Church authorities covered-up the systematic rape and torture of 1000s of children.

But hey - that's OK with FortAnthem.

Who goes out of his way to condone and excuse the repeated and systematic rape and torture of children, and it's cover up.

All fine - according to FortAnthem.

Really? That's what you're taking from this? I usually enjoy your posts and threads (in particular the CoN thread), but you might want to reevaluate your conclusions from FortAnthems posts.

On a side note, I'm usually at the vanguard when defending the Church on CiR, but I have never and will never condone or forgive the actions of the perpetrators or those involved with the cover-up.

That being said, what FortAnthem discusses is true. There is a lack of proportional condemnation and investigation in analogous scandals. What is the motivation for this? For the record, I don't think that there should be LESS coverage of the Church scandals, I think that there should be MORE coverage of other scandals.

If you take a look at sex scandals and deliberate and systematic cover-ups by an institutional hierarchy, the public school system here in the U.S. is comparable or worse than that of the Church and yet it garners far less attention. Unless it's an attractive woman preying on teenage boys, it's in the news one day and gone the next.

I chalk it up to two factors:

1) The msm does not like the Catholic Church or any other institution that proposes objective moral standards. I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's just a conflicting worldview that leads to hostility and a penchant for looking for the wost in the other party.

2) Other organizations, such as the school systems, don't purport to be a conduit to God and the direct spiritual descendants from the Apostles. The hubris of someone who abuses children to make that claim is mind blowing.

Eric

[edit on 27-4-2010 by EricD]

Most of the abuse has been of teenagers, not children. That's the first misconception that the media portrays. Read here:

www.psychwww.com...

Secondly, this is a dated issue. Most of this abuse took place 30-40 years ago, before modern medical standards recognized that child abusers cannot be rehabilitated by psychotherapy. That was the common medical thought at the time - We know this now to be true. You can't apply 2010 medical and psychological thought to decisions made in the 1970's.

In recent years, the Church has done an exemplary job of taking proactive action to screen priests as potential child abusers. Psychological tests, criminal background checks, training in maintaining professional boundaries and impulse control, etc. Things have changed in this regard for the better.

You want to know why the Church is being singled out for attack? Read what former NYC Mayor Ed Koch had to say in defense of the Pope:

www.lifesitenews.com...

Great, great article, and it explains exactly where these attacks are coming from and why.

The pedophile scandals aren't the worst thing, COVERING IT UP, and just transferring priests IS!

The Catholic church is soooo afraid of admitting fault (just look at how long it took them to "forgive" Galileo) because they believe it'll harm their power.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
The pedophile scandals aren't the worst thing, COVERING IT UP, and just transferring priests IS!

The Catholic church is soooo afraid of admitting fault (just look at how long it took them to "forgive" Galileo) because they believe it'll harm their power.

The Church and the Pope have admitted culpability and fault.

I'm not sure what that means though, as there is really nothing that can be done that can make this right. The best that we can hope for is that it never happens again.

I know that there are many people on ATS that don't believe in God or don't believe in traditional Christianity, but I think that everyone has to agree that if you DO believe in Christianity, taking actions that not only abuse a child physically and mentally but may also drive them away from a desire to find God is unbelievably heinous.

I'm a Catholic, but I would be hard pressed to object to the death penalty for those involved with these abuses.

Eric

The Catholic church is also the largest Christian organization in the world. Large number of people + small percentage of criminals = still a significant number of criminals.

If taken as a whole, I am not a Catholic, but I would be greatly surprised if the percentages were any greater than for any other religious organization. There are just so MANY Catholics.

The pedophile scandals aren't the worst thing, COVERING IT UP, and just transferring priests IS!

He that is without sin, cast the first stone, right?

You have to take these allegations in historical context. Doctors didn't know how to treat child abusers at the time - They thought that they could be rehabilitated through psychotherapy and then released out into the public. That was mainstream medical opinion in the 60's and 70's. We now know that this was a terrible mistake. We know a lot more about these issues today than we did then - just as we know now more about autism, alcoholism, etc.

You simply cannot apply 2010 medical opinions to past decades. It wasn't that long ago when doctors were on TV preaching that cigarettes were healthy. Remember those days?

Also, it's not paedophilia. The correct term would be ephebophilia. From Dr. Plante who I quote earlier:

".....80% of all priests who in fact abuse minors have sexually engaged with adolescent boys not prepubescent children. Thus, the teenager is more at risk than the young alter boy or girls of any age. Technically, the vast majority of priest sex offenders are not pedophiles at all but are ephebophiles."

Many of the spurious allegations being made now are from incidents alleged to have taken place 30-40 years ago. The accused priests aren't even alive to defend themselves against false accusations.

Ask yourself, why is the Catholic Church being singled out? I think former NYC Mayor Ed Koch - a conservative Jew - makes an excellent case for the origin of these attacks.

People are missing the point...

Yes, adults abusing children is bad. Yes, it happens in all societies/religions/groups/etc. Is the % of pedophile Christian priests higher than the % of pedophile Hindu priests? WHO CARES??

Since we know it happens everywhere, the focus should be on prevention and then how to handle such cases. And THIS is where the Catholic church committed its biggest crime imo. They grossly neglected to report those priests to civil authorities, and what's more, they further chose to just transfer those priests to new locations instead of kicking them out. So a priest who touched 4 year old boys in Namibia would get caught, send a letter that he's prayed and made up for his sins, and the church would just transfer him to Brazil. Some of the priests got transferred like this several times!!!

That's the real crime of the church. It obviously can't control all its members, but it CAN act morally if things go wrong. They grossly neglected that, and by doing so, showed their real face...people preaching about morals, yet they themselves are pissing on morals.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Oh, sorry...they abused teenage boys, and not children. Alright then

And those cases aren't that old, and cases keep on resurfacing. It's been proven that the church engaged in tons of transfers of child molesting priests.

I don't get your comparison with medicine, it doesn't compare whatsoever. Yeah, we made medical mistakes in the past because of a lack of knowledge. Handling child abuse cases isn't something you need to develop scientific knowledge for. You either do the right thing and report it, or you do the wrong thing, cover it up, and transfer the priest somewhere else. The church chose option 2 and incredibly high % of the time. Doesn't matter if those case are 1, 5, or 20 years old...if they've been covered up, the church should come out and tell people. I would like to know if my priest is a child molester who's been transferred 4-5 times after each incident.

Obviously if you're following the church blindly (the church's favorite kind of people), you won't really care about that but rather shut your eyes and ears and sing "lalalalalalalala, I can't hear you".

Oh, and you're "Jew conspiracy theory"...original

So every time someone accuses the church of anything, it's either the Jews, Muslims, or Atheists who conspire against them?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by MrXYZ]

Originally posted by MrXYZ
People are missing the point...


That's the real crime of the church. It obviously can't control all its members, but it CAN act morally if things go wrong. They grossly neglected that, and by doing so, showed their real face...people preaching about morals, yet they themselves are pissing on morals.

Those crimes are crimes of the past. The Church acted badly in the past when it thought pedophelia was curable. Today, the Church is doing everything in it's power to prosecute those involved (the ones who are still alive anyway) and is working hard to prevent anthing like this from happening in the future.

Prelate: Church Has No Hiding Place for Pedophiles

The Church's Strict Patrol Against Pedophilia

Oh, sorry...they abused teenage boys, and not children. Alright then

Listen, on this forum, I have heard all kinds of nasty accusations against the Catholic Church - Posters calling all priests child rapists, etc.

My point is simple: The media is on a witch hunt, distorting and exaggerating the facts surrounding this issue - even in the very words that they choose to describe the crime.

And those cases aren't that old, and cases keep on resurfacing.

The case that came into the media's attention just recently - the case in Minnesota - involved a dead priest, and accusations from over 20 years ago.

Most of these cases are 30-40 years ago. They only resurface because you have a witch hunt media on the attack to destroy the Catholic Church. To again quote Dr. Plante:

"Almost all the cases coming to light today are cases from 30 and 40 years ago."

He continues:

"Almost all the cases coming to light today are cases from 30 and 40 years ago. We did not know much about pedophilia and sexual abuse in general back then. In fact, the vast majority of the research on sexual abuse of minors didn't emerge until the early 1980's. So, it appeared reasonable at the time to treat these men and then return them to their priestly duties. In hindsight, this was a tragic mistake. It has been estimated that 40 years ago about 23% of male psychotherapists have been sexually involved with their clients. Of course this is no longer true today. Forty years ago we thought that autism was caused by cold and withholding mothers referred to as the "ice box mother." We can't take what we know in 2010 and apply it to problems and decisions made in the 1960's and 1970's.

Furthermore, 40 years ago, most priests entered seminary during high school, did not participate in a comprehensive psychological evaluation prior to admission, and had no training in sexuality, maintaining professional boundaries, and impulse control. Advice regarding dealing with sexual impulses included cold showers and prayer. Today, most applicants to the priesthood are much older (generally in their late 20's or 30's). They often have had satisfying and appropriate intimate relationships before entering the seminary. They have completed a psychological evaluation that specifically examines risk factors for sexual problems. They now get good training in sexuality and issues related to managing sexual impulses. It is not surprising that the majority of the sex-offending priests that we hear about in the press are older. In fact, our research indicates that the average age of these men are 53."

It's an issue from 30-40 years ago. Read the article.

Oh, and you're "Jew conspiracy theory"...original So every time someone accuses the church of anything, it's either the Jews, Muslims, or Atheists who conspire against them?

No, now you're putting words in my mouth. (Pretty disgusting of you to accuse me of anti-semitism - Nothing could be further from the truth.)

I posted an article about former NYC Mayor Ed Koch - a conservative Jew - that actually defends the Pope. Perhaps you should read the link again:

www.lifesitenews.com...

Koch believes that there is a definite agenda by the liberal media to defame the Pope and the Church - all because they disagree with the Church's opinions on abortion, homosexuality, women in the priesthood, etc.

Koch says this:

“Many of those in the media who are pounding on the Church and the pope today clearly do it with delight, and some with malice,” writes Koch. “The reason, I believe, for the constant assaults is that there are many in the media, and some Catholics as well as many in the public, who object to and are incensed by positions the Church holds, including opposition to all abortions, opposition to gay sex and same-sex marriage, retention of celibacy rules for priests, exclusion of women from the clergy, opposition to birth control measures involving condoms and prescription drugs and opposition to civil divorce.”

Read the article.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by CookieMonster09]

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


My point is simple: The media is on a witch hunt, distorting and exaggerating the facts surrounding this issue - even in the very words that they choose to describe the crime.

And those cases aren't that old, and cases keep on resurfacing.

The case that came into the media's attention just recently - the case in Minnesota - involved a dead priest, and accusations from over 20 years ago.

Most of these cases are 30-40 years ago. They only resurface because you have a witch hunt media on the attack to destroy the Catholic Church. To again quote Dr. Plante:

"Almost all the cases coming to light today are cases from 30 and 40 years ago."

The tactic of dragging up old cases to keep the scandal fresh in the public mind is an old tactic developed by the Nazis to smear the Church.

Media-Driven Moral Panic: An Old Nazi Trick