Do you think HADES/HELL/etc is real? Or a made-up thing?

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
It's a real place.

According to whom?

The pope?

I would love to get my hands on some of the original documents the Bible is based on... too bad the Vatican thinks that's a bad idea.

I wonder why..... ????

No, not according to the Pope - who, by the way, is just a "man" who oversees a very large "church organization" - who is also neither God, nor Jesus Christ.

According to the Authorized 1611 King James Bible.

You can read about Hell at THIS link.

Satan is working very hard to deceive us into believing that there is no such place as hell - he knows if he can create doubt, there are people out there that will buy into the idea that we can continue going against God's Laws without any worries of ever being held accountable.

Either the teachings have been corrupted from their original words or the deity we believe is God has a very evil/cruel side. Nobody knows for sure, but to demonstrate how ridiculous this idea of Hell is, I will give you an example.

Imagine I create video game where I am given Godlike powers. I can create anything and everything I want as quickly and accurately as I want. There is no limit to what I can create and there is no creation that does not come from me. (Every single character of code that is created in this game has derived from the code I have created. It is impossible for anything to be out of my control because everything in this game comes from me and my code).

Now imagine I start to create beings. Eventually I create a very complex and intricate world where the number of variables are astounding - not to me, but to the creations within my world. I eventually create Angels that are given extra power above all other creations in this world. I eventually find out that one of the Angels has created a place where he can tempt creations below him to enter. In this place creations are tortured and tormented for eternity. I can pretend the place does not exist, but that would mean I the creator am lying to myself. (In actuality I could make myself pretend I don't know, but what would this make me?)

Now, even if I did not have the foresight to see one of my Angels creating this place of perpetual suffering, I am aware that it exists. I am certain that many of my own creations are destined to a perpetual life of torture but I tell them that all they need to do is believe in me and follow my teachings to be spared from this place.

If Hell does exist as a physical location, then God KNOWS that the majority of his creations are destined to a life of perpetual suffering from which they cannot escape. That he allows this place to continue to exist, to continue to allow one of his fallen Angels to tempt people to this place knowing the consequences for their souls suggests that God is not a loving, righteous God.

I believe Heaven and Hell are made up by organized religion as a form of control. It’s a proven fact that man wrote the bible. And it’s also proven to be similar to several other religions.
It’s also accepted that energy can't be destroyed only changed. There is Energy in your body. Where does it go when you die?
Your body is a just a vessel for this energy. When the body gets old and wears out the energy moves on to bigger better things.

It’s a different plain of existence we cannot comprehend. Anyone that says they know where we go is not right in the head.

If there are all powerful beings like gods they would not care or take any interest in us. We would be like germs to them.

Do what makes you happy. This part of life is the first step in existence. have fun with it.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Darkice19]

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Darkice19]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
No, not according to the Pope - who, by the way, is just a "man" who oversees a very large "church organization" - who is also neither God, nor Jesus Christ.

According to the Authorized 1611 King James Bible.

You can read about Hell at THIS link.

Satan is working very hard to deceive us into believing that there is no such place as hell - he knows if he can create doubt, there are people out there that will buy into the idea that we can continue going against God's Laws without any worries of ever being held accountable.

Would this suggest that Satan has grown beyond God's control then? God's very laws are the ones that allowed Satan to come into existence and cause pain and suffering for billions of God's creations. Why does God allow Satan to exist? Why does God need a fallen Angel to create a place of perpetual torment in order to make people fear him and follow his teachings?

[edit on 30/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Dark Ghost



We're in agreement

It's the only conclusion to be reached, isn't it ?

It was a relief, to be honest, to finally reach that conclusion after all those confused and disillusioned years

As I used to say (a very simple example) -- if I build a car or bake a cake which is deemed 'faulty' -- who's responsible, me or the car/cake ?

And if I as a mere mortal can appreciate that, then surely a God worth knowing would do so also

So, as far as I'm concerned, either there exists no 'Hell'

or the God of this world is not my God

That's not to say there aren't different levels or dimensions, because most of us have at least heard about 'unhappy spirits' and some of us have witnessed them

But perhaps the spirits deem themselves worthy of 'exclusion from the light' or of at least a period of afterlife suffering, rather than being condemned to hellish regions 'by God' ?

So much we don't know. Religion attempts to fill in the gaps -- and gets carried away with its own insane imaginings sometimes


.



[edit on 30-3-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Dark Ghost quote:

Would this suggest that Satan has grown beyond God's control then? God's very laws are the ones that allowed Satan to come into existence and cause pain and suffering for billions of God's creations. Why does God allow Satan to exist? Why does God need a fallen Angel to create a place of perpetual torment in order to make people fear him and follow his teachings?

Or, as I asked the 7th Day Adventists who banged on the door and presumed to preach to me when I was busy,

'We're told that God exhorts us to forgive, forgive a thousand times if need be. So why doesn't God forgive the Debil instead of making us suffer like children stuck in the middle of an ugly divorce ' ?

This little boy claims he's seen 'Hell'

www.youtube.com...

Heaven or Hell is a perceptual thing.
Here on Earth you can find both.
One man's Heaven is another man's Hell.
A sado-masochist would find a torture dimension to be very fulfilling.
Punishment for them would have to be a pleasure dimension.
An afterlife yes quite possibly, but Heaven or Hell, i don't think so.

reply to post by OldThinker


Always a joy to run into you again OT.

Yes I believe hell does exist. Does God send us there? No the choices we make decide that. Who do we follow and what or who is our God or gods. Do we put power, money and greed ahead of our fellow man and our families and even God. It's all about choices we make.

I stay opened minded on things that I can not prove or people can not prove to me. But I ask and ponder finally things happen where I'm lead to the answer.

I use to be on the fence about Hell was there or was there not. I'd heard both sides of the issue. So I wondered and thought and asked.

One night something happened I was shown something. The reasons I was gave made no sense to me at that time. The memory is still very strong of that experience.

Christmas time came close and I was looking for gifts to give to people. One was my mother the other my best friend. Being in her 70's my mother is hard to buy for. I was at the story and looking hopelessly around for something she might like. The thought came to me to buy her a book. So I went along to the book section of the store. As I came across the inspirational section this voice said to me that one. The title of the book was 23 minutes in hell.

I bought the book and kept looking at it. So I picked it up and read it. I wasn't sure what to think about this book. Was this man actually telling the truth or was he just trying to sell his book and make some money. I continued to read. He then described something in that book and I knew he had to of experienced what he claimed to of by his discription of being lifted up above the earth. His discription of that process is one you would of had to experience to of been able to write it acruate.

I was not taken to hell like him but I was shown something that was happening on earth and explained the why's about it.

The next time I was at the store I was told to get the book for my best friend. I'm thinking geez my mom and her are going to think I'm trying to tell them they are going to hell. My friend doesn't have lots of money so I didn't want her to in return give a gift back so I wrapped it and gave it to someone else to give to her with no name on it. Later that day she came up so excited telling me she got the book. Apparently she had heard of this man and his book at church and was wanting the book so she could read it. I gave her a hug and said "isn't it strange how God works."

God leads us to the answers if we ask for one.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by napayshni57]

Would this suggest that Satan has grown beyond God's control then? God's very laws are the ones that allowed Satan to come into existence and cause pain and suffering for billions of God's creations. Why does God allow Satan to exist? Why does God need a fallen Angel to create a place of perpetual torment in order to make people fear him and follow his teachings?

[edit on 30/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

===================================================

Ok, first - (and I mean this with all due respect, but it's the only way I know how to make this point) - look in the mirror, and you should see you, a human being, correct?

Alright, now - the Bible tells us that God's ways are not our ways - meaning, there are probably a gazillionbillion things that *we* (human beings) have no clue about. Our brains are *human* brains - and that means that our brains have a limited capacity of knowledge, and ability to grasp or learn things.

We are talking about the God that created our Planet Earth, the universe, the Heavens, hell, and probably a gazillionbillion other "things/species" out there. Are we going to understand Him, His creations, or His decision? No - we try, because we are stubborn *humans* - but God did right in allowing us only so much knowledge. The proof of that is - look at the lit'l knowledge we have now, and we have taken that and managed to rip our entire world to shreds. I think He knew what would have happened had He opened up our minds any further to new things and more knowledge.

Keep in mind, God didn't create satan. God created an angel - yes, satan used to be an angel of light, a good angel. But HE chose to be evil and was eternally judged by God for his choice.

Now, ions later, if God chooses to use satan to fulfill His divine plan for us/mankind here on Earth - I have no problems with that. Look at what we've managed to screw up thus far - I think we owe it to Him?

God allows satan to "exist" in order to "use" him to fulfill His plans for us on Earth. Satan knows he is a dead man walking, and he also knows that his time here is short, and it's all coming down to the wire. That is why you see all the talk now about the satanic influences within our music - satan knows the way to get the kids is through music. I.e. Lady Gaga, Madonna, Manson, Ozzy, JayZ, Beyonce, etc.

The more satan runs "to and fro" creating doubt in our minds, the more crime increases, suicides especially teens and pre teens, etc. satan has been given a death sentence, he knows this - and please don't think he is going to show up dressed in all red, carrying a pitchfork and sporting horns. No, he shows up as a "light", a good "light" - and the masses buy it hook line and sinker.

God also created hell/death, and the lake of fire - and the lake of fire is due to the evil of satan, and mankind. The Bible doesn't specify exactly what satan did to become eternally judged for damnation - but the Bible tells us very clearly what to do and what not to do if we don't want the same fate as satan.

While there is nothing wrong with not understanding God's ways, I don't question why He does the things He does - He is the Creator, and as much as we would all like to think that *we*, vanity filled and prideful *mankind*, knows everything there is to know - the fact is, we do not.

If the Bible tells us there is a lake of fire, then you can bet your last dollar that there is such a place.

reply to post by OldThinker


I saw that movie.. I believe you can go to TBN and it is still available in their video section. I believe its called from hell and back.

Do I believe in hell. Absolutely! There is a literal hell created for Satan and his angels and was never intended for man. Since the fall though we are all headed that way unless we repent and get "born again". I know sounds crazy and many will refute this idea. Problem is, It isnt anything I can convincingly argue. You have to come by it through revelation knoweledge. In order to do that you first have to believe in God and that he is a rewarder of those who desperately seek him.

Hell is real. I wish I could PROVE it by showing you or doing it mathematically but I can not. My prayer is all will come into this knowledge, but alas the bible says few do.

This link will take you to a 9 part video series about a man named Ronald Reagan (no, not that one) - who died and God showed him hell - and it changed his life immediately.

Very interesting testimony.

Ronald Reagan

If anyone has noticed, these recounts of people dying and being shown either Heaven or hell are increasing as time goes along.

I have a feeling there will be more and more of these come to light - as another
one of God's signs -the Bible says the signs will increase, and I do feel this is one of them.

Edit to add:

The 9 videos recount numerous people, not just Ronald Reagan - doctors, heart specialists, etc. also interviewed.

The MD that speaks on these videos says that a Clinical Death is one that occurs when the body/heart/brain stops for under 4-6 minutes.

A "Biological Death" occurs when death exceeds more than 4 - 6 minutes.





[edit on 30-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

Here's another one, previously a gang member, that had a car accident, died and was allowed to see hell - and now he goes around speaking to teens about drugs and alcohol, Heaven and hell.

Another interesting testimony -

reply to post by nomorecruelty


In brief, what you're preaching to others is what's been preached to you. You've swallowed it and now you're expelling it. In one end, out the other

You obviously regard yourself as a passive, unthinking parrot ?

You say you don't question

And you appear to feel others shouldn't question either

Because in your world, in one end and out the other is considered 'good' and 'pious' ?

Has it occurred to you that not everyone is prepared to be a human parrot ? NOt everyone is prepared to put their brain on ice for the duration ?

I expect more from any God I worship than for him/she/it to expect me to be a non-questioning human parrot

Can't you understand that the authoritarian religious mode is no longer working ? And for some, it never did work

This isn't the Middle Ages. People expect a lot of a God these days. They aren't prepared to accept jealousy, revenge, threats, favouritism, contradiction or insanity in a god. In fact, it makes you wonder why they ever did. Maybe they were of the human-parrot variety ? And of course, the church held a lot more power back-then and was prone to tearing out fingernails, burning children and other insane, sexually-perverted tortures. The Church isn't so powerful these days though, is it ? My, how the mighty have fallen. Lucky they have people like you working for them, still deluded, still preaching blind obedience, 'just because'

My God is NOTHING like the God of the Old Testament. Nothing

My God is a genius without parallel ... beyond comprehension

My God is the embodiment of enlightenment and is far, far removed from fanatics who cling to stuff written piecemeal, plagiarised, distorted, etc. by a thousand or more vested interests over thousands of years of ignorance and fear and lust for power over the masses

My God does not hide behind the 'one size fits all Free-will disclaimer' any time someone points out the illogic and discrepancies

If God created me as a conscious act, then God is responsible for all my foibles. My God would not dream of blaming me or passing the buck on a Satan which itself is a creation of the fear-mongers

This 'personal God, Special-planet, Sun revolves 'round Earth, Heaven/Hell divisiveness' is out of time

It's a big space out there, or 'in here', as the case may be

Organised religion has made profit from the 'isolationist' message it's preached. Just as it's profited financially and power & control-wise from it's claimed monopoly on the God & Afterlife Industry

Look around. Millions have died in the past decade in Iraq alone. Do you believe God is in favour of that ? If so, what sort of God would he/she/it be ? Suffering defines this planet. The place is soaked in blood. And that's not because we're 'evil', or 'greedy'. It's because we're animals of the most predatory kind. It's in our genes. And we didn't install those genes and I strongly doubt any 'god' did, either

Maybe we were seeded. Maybe we blew here from someplace else.

Evolution hasn't even scratched us. We're up to teh same tricks as the cave-men. Only the clothing and hair-styles have changed. We're mad dogs, dangerous -- go to a department store during the sales and see it for yourself

We can't help what we are. It's what we are. Telling us to change our ways makes as much sense as expecting lions and alligators to change their ways

Maybe God regards us as we'd regard a tank filled with sharks --- fondly, compassionately, yet with a bit of a wrinkle of the nose. We are the human zoo: breeding, fighting, competing, snarling and at the same time ashamed of ourselves for being as our Creator created us --- and denying what we are and aspiring to what the clergy claims are God's expectations of us

Well hey, if the Creator wanted us to change, don't you think he/she/it would have done something to effect a change by now ? And that change would require to be programmed into our DNA, because we have as much chance of changing our human nature as we have of willing our noses to disappear

Yet some try to explain it all away with the notion of a 'Debil' who was expelled for being naughty and now works to make us naughty too. And others suppress their natural intelligence and try to believe that

Most of the creatures on this planet exist by killing something else. You noticed that ? Do you have an explanation for it ? Do you think it's a 'peaceful model' ? If you were provided the oportunity to create a world, would you design a world where most things exist by killing something else ?

This world is a rough neighbourhood. Would you knowingly send your children to such a world ? How would you expect them to survive it ? Would you judge them if they adapted to their environment ? Would you blame them for adapting -- bearing in mind that intelligence is defined as 'the ability to adapt' ? Because that's what humans have done ... adapt to their environment

So who's responsible for the situation -- the one which created the environment AND those who exist in it --- or those who fight to survive that environment ?

Would I like a Disneyland environment where Bambi is safe and everything lives in harmony ? You bet. And I'll also bet I have lots of company

But we weren't provided a Disney environment, were we ? Instead, we struggle with despair, torment, depression and hopelessness caused by what we experience and see around us 24/7

Not the clergy though. By and large, they're spared the necessity to get out and find a job, pay their bills, deal with the true reality. Instead they reside in their inner sanctums, catered to by house-keepers, their food and lodgings provided, their pensions secure, all cover for each other and professing to tell the real world how to comport itself and laying blame left and right

I have no fear of meeting 'God'. I'm confident he/she/it understands why I feel and speak as I do

The Biblical Jesus Christ didn't mince words and didn't mind getting physical when he believed the situation warranted some tough-love

And the Biblical God was no master of restraint, huh --- slaying entire cities, tossing plagues and pestilence at entire nations, etc.

You believe a God like that wants mealy-mouthed humans who wring their hands and fall on their knees ! ?

Or did that God never exists, outside the imaginations, fears, lust for power etc. of the thousands who manufactured the Bible --- and those who peddle the propaganda to this day in order to render millions obedient and afraid ? Yes ... that's what I think, too

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Here's another one, previously a gang member, that had a car accident, died and was allowed to see hell - and now he goes around speaking to teens about drugs and alcohol, Heaven and hell.

Another interesting testimony -

I don't believe it

In fact, I regard tales like that as being exactly like the 'buyer testimonies' which accompany advertisements ... usually shonky advertisements

such as: ' Buy our belly-shrinker now. It WORKS ! Read here what dozens of satisfied customers have to say .... '

followed by half a dozen 'real people' (except their real address and phone number is never included) such as ' Sally from Oregon who writes, ' Belly-shrinker really worked for me in only three days ! '

I have just been watching a docu on youtube about this and it makes sense to me that hell is real .also ive had NDE and one was dark but not burning just dark .any way heres the link 1 to 29.
well worth a watch maybe do some people good if they listen .Because after all everyone wants a good life except the very few.

www.youtube.com.../a/5FB07E43275AE7D9/0/CHoW_W6jsw0


www.youtube.com...

wont embed but will take you to freecdtracts page

ITS called hell is real.



[edit on 3/30/2010 by dashar]

"While you sound like you claim to be a believer and follower of God, as well as a believer in the Bible - at the same time, you openly reject what is written in the Bible regarding Hell.

While God is a loving God, He is also a just God - and He doesn't lie. Therefore what is written in His Bible should be accepted, in its entirety, including the mention, and descriptions, of Hell.

Some so called "Christians" claim to believe in God, yet reject what He has to say about Hell and the Lake of Fire.

It appears, to me, that you are one of those believers who want to accept all the good parts of the Bible, and God, but reject any "bad/scary" parts that speak of being held accountable.

Hell exists - the Bible makes that very clear. "


Hmmm... NoMoreCruelty are you responding to my post? I do believe that Hell exists.

Do I accept ALL parts of the Bible, IE, am I a fundamentalist? No. I believe that some accounts in the Bible are allegorical/metaphorical. For example, I have a hard time believing Jonah was in the belly of a fish for 3 days. However, I do NOT discount the timeless message of Jonah's story.

In the same way, I have a hard time believing the story of Adam and Eve being the two progenitors of the entire human race (from a genetic/reproductive stance alone). HOWEVER, I absolutely understand what God is trying to teach with this account of Adam and Eve.

In this same manner, I find "burning in an eternal lake of fire" hard to visualize, but I have no doubt that those who reject God, themselves choose to enter into spiritual darkness after their death.

Getting back to the original question in this thread, do I believe in hell? Yes!

Will hell be solely a place of infinite burning? I don't know. Yes, the Bible states it clearly. However, I don't feel I am leading other Christians or non-believers astray by my previous posts...if you choose to reject God, he will reject you, it's that simple. God is NOT the one who does the condemning--people, by their own actions, reject God and Jesus' teachings/warnings.

Heaven and hell are both stories that have been made up down thru out the ages and they have been built upon with the same good/bad adage as all other things pertaining to religions. They are all power ploys put into place by "man" to control other men. They make most of the population into scared little sheep that need to huddle into a "flock".

These stories are so ridiculous I can hardly believe anyone listens to them.

Try and be rational for a moment. MAN CREATED GOD IN "AN" IMAGE.

If this "god" you talk about is so loving and caring and forgiving, why doesn't he just forgive this satan character and be done with the mess he created.

It's called "DIVERSION" and it has worked well on most of the masses.

Ask your brain (or god) to tell you what the truth is and it will enlighten you. No need for a book or another person telling you what you need to think. You do have to make your conscious egotistical brain shut up long enough to get an answer though. I think it's called "the still small voice".
lol

Worshiping jesus and the christian god on a throne is right up there with worshiping RA or Zeus or Allah.

I have actually taken it upon myself to become god's accountant and handle all his money for him. He seems to have a very hard time taking care of it himself; hence, that is the reason every religion and religious leader is always wanting money from the masses. I suppose ole god can't manifest it for them quick enough.

Standing outside the box and looking at the worlds religions of today is akin to reading about how the Aztecs used to use so many people for sacrifices so they could appease their gods need for blood. So amny people telling me what god wants....amazing...

Think about it from an "unemotional" standpoint for 1 minute a day and you will be able to "snatch the pebble from the hand grasshopper".....lol

peas

I believe hell is real.

you say a loving God could never damn people eternally?

think of it this way. if you are married and your wife loves you, wouldn't she be mad if u cheated on her with another woman?

do you think God views it any differently? or do you think she would say "well, as long as you pleased her to the best of your ability and did what she wanted you to do, im ok with it"?

the former is much more logical. we cannot stop him from loving us, but if we choose another path besides the narrow path, he honors our choice and lets us sleep in the bed we made.

as for taking the bible as fact, you infact can. why do you dismiss what it says so quickly? humans are very good at lying to ourselves, and decieving ourselves. dismissing the book with "ahh, well, i don't think any of that stuff could have happened" is illogical, belief does not effect absolute truth.

why did christianity take off so quickly? how could men have made it up when the truth was a hike a few miles long that ended at an empty grave? who could dismiss miracles so easily when the man who had one leg and begged at the corner of the street every day now has two?

if one of your friends told you that down the street a man who died at the cross was up and about? would you laugh at him? would you laugh when 500 others have seen the same? or would you walk down the street and find out for yourself?

the human condition is best expressed when a man said "father i believe, forgive my unbelief!"

Not a one of you has the courage to address what I have said. How interesting.