Do you think HADES/HELL/etc is real? Or a made-up thing?

reply to post by Solasis


Kind of just semantics at this point. Older civilizations had mathematics as well, with no zero, still mathematics in my book.

Most of them had an underworld, a term than can be replaced with today's hell.

Pred...

I know there are a lot of things and stories in the bible that are hard to fathom and they don't always jibe with my sense of right and wrong..
The new testament is what I take as factual, although, not completely literally, since many things are described by using parables, or comparisons to other things. and some things are very difficult to even understand at all...
But, I will restate my reason for believing it's words is because of the determination and strong words used by the 12 disciples in describing what they witnessed and testified to be true..
Those guys are totally worth it to believe what they say.

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by Solasis

 

Kind of just semantics at this point. Older civilizations had mathematics as well, with no zero, still mathematics in my book.

Most of them had an underworld, a term than can be replaced with today's hell.

Pred...

Math? Tell me more....ok?

I am a LSS MBB (ASQ certified)

Ever heard of that?

reply to post by OldThinker


I was just saying about math, The egyptians never had a zero, as in nothing, 0 wasn't invented until the Indians took over because the christians burned down Alexandria where all of our knowledge was held.

I was just saying because they never understood the value of nothing does not make it not-math.

I am not 100% sure, heard but never learned of it, doesn't the end stand for master black belt? six sigma?

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187


Yep, very good!

here's a bit more: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Really looking forward to your take sometime on the Campolo links:

Good night!

Thx for great dialog!

reply to post by OldThinker


That was a long response, and while I value verses from the bible, it is my view that one must take in the grand messages in toto, rather than one liners in order to gain any wisdom from the bible. Trying to gain any greater understanding from the bible by examining a single verse is akin to hoping to have a little fun by running one line of code from the source of a video game. A single line of code can't be run to any effect, whatsoever. The emergence of the video-game from all lines of code is synonymous with the emergence of wisdom from everything that you are shown in your life; The bible being just a single component of that.

One of the most epic works on the subject of Hell is Dante's Inferno. Dante's Inferno is allegorical, but quite clearly suggests that our walk through our lives here on Earth is our struggle through Hell.

It is my view that this is an education and we are in the process of perfecting our souls by being forced to face the consequences of our choices, where sin is a corrupting choice that causes pain to others and perverts what it touches. The concept of hell is the concept of self mutilation through sin and eternal damnation is akin to being stuck in a cycle of self mutilation through the inability to desire not to commit such corrupting actions. We do not live singular short lives and be judged for all time; that is an allegory. We are our own judges and we embark on this journey willingly; This journey is one with a system of spiritual counterbalances and we must face our own choices karmaticly while we are alive.

When we die, the game may go on, who is to say. The bible certainly seems to indicate that there is more to this process than the period of life. But the bible should not be interpreted too literally, it is written with words that are to be listened with your spirit and not your mind. Only a fool would read the words as words to be interpreted by his or her intellect.

In EA's cinematic epic animation Dante's Inferno, Lucifer says, "Earth is just another form of Hell and men are it's demons."

I see no reason to believe that this is not the case, and in fact am certain that it is, insofar as the purpose of Earth is to burn the desire to sin from your soul.

Which is what we are here to do.

Originally posted by AkoMakolet
.....But the bible should not be interpreted too literally, it is written with words that are to be listened with your spirit and not your mind. ....

www.youtube.com...

3 minutes....

[edit on 29-3-2010 by OldThinker]

imo:

near death experiences are the brain, and likely, subconscious (perhaps conscious) issues within the brain creating dreams. most of us don't question the reality of our dreams. why is hard to imagine that in the stress of a death, there wouldn't be similar phenomena, especially dealing with aspects of morbidity (loved ones, heaven, hell)?

hell doesn't exist. neither does heaven. it's all made up.

Originally posted by Hadrian

hell doesn't exist. neither does heaven. it's all made up.

this ole wakefield grad says, maybe so...

Good night, its late here...you know

reply to post by OldThinker


Etymology on the word "Hell"

hell Look up hell at Dictionary.com
O.E. hel, helle "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions," from P.Gmc. *khaljo (cf. O.Fris. helle, O.N. hel, Ger. Hölle, Goth. halja "hell") "the underworld," lit. "concealed place," from PIE *kel- "to cover, conceal, save" (see cell). The English word may be in part from O.N. Hel (from P.Gmc. *khalija "one who covers up or hides something"), in Norse mythology Loki's daughter, who rules over the evil dead in Niflheim, the lowest of all worlds (nifl "mist"). Transfer of a pagan concept and word to a Christian idiom, used in the KJV for O.T. Heb. Sheol and N.T. Gk. Hades, Gehenna. Used figuratively for "any bad experience" since at least late 14c. As an expression of disgust, etc., first recorded 1670s. Hell-raiser is from 1914 (to raise hell is from 1896); Expression Hell in a handbasket is c.1941, perhaps a revision of earlier heaven in a handbasket (c.1913), with a sense of "easy passage" to whichever destination. Hell or high water is apparently a variation of between the devil and the deep blue sea. To wish someone would go to hell is in Shakespeare (1596). Snowball's chance in hell "no chance" is from 1931; till hell freezes over "never" is from 1919. To ride hell for leather is from 1889, originally with reference to riding on horseback. Hell on wheels is from 1843.

Diving deeper into "cell".

cell Look up cell at Dictionary.com
early 12c., "small room," from L. cella "small room, store room, hut," related to L. celare "to hide, conceal," from PIE base *kel- "conceal" (cf. Skt. cala "hut, house, hall;" Gk. kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" L. clam "secret;" O.Ir. cuile "cellar," celim "hide," M.Ir. cul "defense, shelter;" Goth. hulistr "covering," O.E. heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Goth. huljan "cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," O.E. hol "cave," holu "husk, pod"). Earliest sense is for monastic rooms, then prison rooms (1722). Used in 14c., figuratively, of brain "compartments;" used in biology 17c. of various cavities, but not in modern sense of "basic structure of living organisms" until 1845. Meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cell body is from 1878; cell division from 1882; cell membrane from 1870 (but cellular membrane is 1773); cell wall from c.1848.

Note that Gehenna is the base of Genesis which is it's Greek rendering. The modern equivalent of Genesis is Generations which is what "Genesis" is all about.

When Christ on the cross told the thief that asked to be remembered upon "entering his kingdom", the Christ replied..."Today you shall be with me in paradise" Christ was speaking of Genesis. These men, having no children were the "end of the line", because it is only by children that your name is preserved upon the earth, and the end of the line is also the beginning of the line....a line that goes forever in perpetual motion

When death had come and the consumption of the blood, again, these men were "the end of the line", the life retained in the blood having no where to be saved by way of descendants was thus scattered to the wind disassembling every generation retained in the blood (you are a house of many generations and the home in which they dwell) that had been gathered must then become strangers in all the nations till gathered again and this process never never ends.

This is when a spirit goes out of a man and wonders, then coming to it's home takes with it 7 more wicked then itself. Jesus spoke of what he knew, and no one listened, even today, no one hears believing in fairy tails which will not benefit them. Men seek death, believing it to be heaven not considering the work of God presently, nor the miracle of their life, but heaping up vanity and surely they are rewarded.

Think I'm joking? Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom, the rich man was not. In the body, out of the body.

To dwell in the house of the lord is to remain in the body. Death claims every man, only life goes forward if you will send it.

The best description of this process is "Shoots and ladders"

Helter Skelter

This is the burden of Cain, of Esau, of Jesus for they are one in the same, because it is a curse to know you must begin again, an unbearable curse to remember rather to be born again through your children, yet all will fail and all will fall short. God does not change and is always throwing open the gates of "Hell" till death is consumed.

Peace

Originally posted by OldThinker
There are over 162 references in the New Testament which warn of Hell.

Hell is
living forever
but knowing that
someone else has it
just slightly better than you.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by AkoMakolet
.....But the bible should not be interpreted too literally, it is written with words that are to be listened with your spirit and not your mind. ....

www.youtube.com...

3 minutes....

[edit on 29-3-2010 by OldThinker]

Wow! Great video. I added it to my favorite list. Terrific.

What's your point?

Originally posted by Hadrian
imo:

hell doesn't exist. neither does heaven. it's all made up.

Upside down, insight out and backwards.

This place is made up and your life is the dream.

Edit to add: Take a trip down the rabbit hole, with a paper from a tenured professor of Oxford University. Enjoy the ride! I'll throw you the next breadcrumb if you follow that one...

[edit on 30-3-2010 by AkoMakolet]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
According to the bible, "hell" is just a fiery pit. The word "heaven" means "sky". The gods ascended and descended the heavens (the sky) in their fiery chariots, pillars and clouds (i.e. ships).

kind of reminds me of ufos and spaceships and the likes
wierd huh?

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by OldThinker
There are over 162 references in the New Testament which warn of Hell.

Hell is
living forever
but knowing that
someone else has it
just slightly better than you.

David Grouchy

"Hello Matter, Hello Farther, I am here at camp light bearer"

peace

Originally posted by antideceit
I know there are a lot of things and stories in the bible that are hard to fathom and they don't always jibe with my sense of right and wrong..
The new testament is what I take as factual, although, not completely literally, since many things are described by using parables, or comparisons to other things. and some things are very difficult to even understand at all...
But, I will restate my reason for believing it's words is because of the determination and strong words used by the 12 disciples in describing what they witnessed and testified to be true..
Those guys are totally worth it to believe what they say.

People on the outside understand it (the bible) in parables and always will. It is dualistic to such and they pick and choose which is literal and which is allegorical, but if you are to know the truth, the two must become one otherwise you are in paradox and a paradox will never be understood through a parable, but will fractilize into in finite. No paradox exists if you see things through others eyes as well as your own. We perceive we are separate just as a cell splits from the first taking on different jobs, giving more diverse jobs upon it's split, yet all carry one instruction and do not differ in function.

No man has witnessed and testified to you any truth for if you saw the truth, you would see the eyes in your head are true witness and that your mouth is true testimony. The writing of books has no end, all hung on a tree, but what you say will speak of you and what you perform will confirm truth.

Two must be gathered in sole purpose of bringing forth the third who dwells between the cherubim. "For where ever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there in your midst" "Faith without works is dead" The faithful working of man, brings forth the son of man for god created them Male and Female and what God has brought together, let no man make asunder.

When you have become two, you will become four who will become eight, who are sixteen because they are thirty two, while being sixty four......forever and ever and ever. Spread out your tent, and increase the hems of your garments...emmanuel

Peace

reply to post by OldThinker


Dear OldThinker

After all these years here on earth I still can not really understand the idea of Hell.

Satan or what ever you would like to call him is the opposite of God but was created by God. The leader of the fallen angles.

So he gathers up evil sprits and tortures them for eternity.

This is what the Christians would have you believe.

It doesn’t seam so logical to me.

Why would Satan do this to his followers???

OK so it is not Satan it is God doing it?? Mighty vindictive do you not think??

Anyway if you go by the TEN COMANDMENTS Hell is going to be very full.

Heaven is going to be very empty.

Where would all the Popes in history be I wonder???

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
It's a real place.

According to whom?

The pope?

I would love to get my hands on some of the original documents the Bible is based on... too bad the Vatican thinks that's a bad idea.

I wonder why..... ????

Hell is definately real. I've seen and felt the demons who come from there and they are definately real!

Originally posted by sparkofdivine
I'm not going to convince anyone of my viewpoint, that heaven and hell exist. but I feel the need to correct something about the concept of hell that many Christians and non-Christans alike seem to not understand.

Hell is being separated from God. A person experiences hell because he or she REJECTS GOD.

God IS all loving and all powerful; God does not just punish those for eternity who have been rebellious or made poor choices. People THEMSELVES choose to reject God, and in so doing, separate themselves from God's eternal love after death.

God is not a pouty child who says "Fine! You didn't do what I said, now burn forever!"

People sadly misunderstand the concept of hell, and even what it means to have a "personal relationship" with Jesus.

When I started to devote myself to studying the Bible, and trying to discern its wisdom, but most importantly attempting to "listen for God", I became a new person. No, not suddenly checking my scientific mind at the door, but having a transformation in my heart. I no longer feel the need to compare my level of success to others for a sense of well being; I don't desire to watch stand-up comedy with tons of profanity; I have no desire to get drunk to have a good time.

I'm only posting my personal experience because it is saddens me that some people use Hell to scare them towards Jesus, when what I WISH would draw them toward Him is seeing a person leading a life of integrity/compassion/helping others--if more people saw the Christians that Jesus intended, so many more lives could be changed for the better.

No doubt that some here will ask me, "How do YOU know anything that you posted about hell is true?"

Well, I don't. It's only my perception I thought I would express in the hopes that it would resonate with others.

While you sound like you claim to be a believer and follower of God, as well as a believer in the Bible - at the same time, you openly reject what is written in the Bible regarding Hell.

While God is a loving God, He is also a just God - and He doesn't lie. Therefore what is written in His Bible should be accepted, in its entirety, including the mention, and descriptions, of Hell.

Some so called "Christians" claim to believe in God, yet reject what He has to say about Hell and the Lake of Fire.

It appears, to me, that you are one of those believers who want to accept all the good parts of the Bible, and God, but reject any "bad/scary" parts that speak of being held accountable.

Hell exists - the Bible makes that very clear.