It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Sell-off in US Treasuries Raises Sovereign Debt Fears

page: 4
53
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I agree. How could I not agree?




posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


While writing I was thinking more of credit than chocolate. Candy is candy.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sarkazmon
Anybody who believes that the economic mess is the fault of only one side of the coin doesn't deserve the time of day.


I think that pretty much sums up my feelings on where politics belongs when it come to the economy.

Lets leave both liberal and conservative mudslinging out of this.

As was already mentioned, the moneyed class is not interested in labels or red or blue party favours (unless they can be used to manipulate us).

They only care about the colours of money - gold and silver (and real estate).

.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555
We are now reaching that point again. The only way to dig out of all this money printing and drunken spending by the Progressives is to let the inflation Genie out of the bottle. Soon you will start to hear regular reports of the interest rates going up. Prices on all goods and services will start to climb quickly. What your dollar would buy today, it will take two to buy tomorrow. You might think you have enough, but if prices double and your income does not go up at all, do you?


You obviously have no idea about what the hell your talking about as it has been proven again and again that republican governments spend TWICE or more of what democrats do. This is NOT some "national security" secret so go dig up the data and believe it.

To make matters worse republicans HATE regulating big business, refuse asian tariffs, start wars based on false-flag operations, spend more on military than social welfare, impeach presidents for BS reasons, think very little of the enviroment, etc. I could go on for days criticising republicans if I really wanted to...



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:54 PM
link   
If the Dem party and the Repub party ceased to exist tomorrow, would be a day to rejoice.

One party spends on social programs like money grows at the Federal Reserve.
One party spends on defense programs.....................................

Neither party goes after the problem. The Federal Reserve and the Multi National Mega Corps that are monopolizing every aspect of production.

Hmmmmm, which party should we be attacking?

Slavery from party A is no different than slavery from party B. With the slave master the Federal Reserve etc etc etc pulling the strings of both.

Give up on the two party paradigm folks.

If there is a member of your party that has stated these things about the Federal Reserve, than they are not part of the problem.

If they never have, they are part of the problem.

Slavery by any other name, is still slavery.

I was meant to be free, as you were, When will you scream for freedom from the slave masters? Or will you continue to be part of the problem?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:59 PM
link   
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


What?

Did you really just post that right after my post to leave political left/right bickering out of it?

.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 06:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Gools
 


I wasn't really interested in a political argument of right vs left but Blaine9155 was wrongfully accussing democrats for a page and a half so naturally I got a little mad....



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 06:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


I am sorry but you always make such a easy target. Lets see I am fine but everything else around me is falling. Hmm and also I cant leave the country with my money and assets because of new laws.



Seriously do you need me to draw you a picture or what? It will not matter what you have or if you are debt free it will matter how much survival skills you have. Money means nothing when it is worth nothing.


Spot on, Truth spot on. I totally forgot about the new laws in regard to money and assets being transferred and/or bought oversees by American citizens. There's a reason why those laws have been strengthened, it's because they know that during an economic calamity people of said country try to get their money out of the country. They want to stop that happening in the US because its a self fulfilling bad dream for the economy. Economy doing bad ergo people do a runner on the bank, they pull their money out and the banks are slowly becoming insolvent. An insolvent bank makes other financial entities insolvent also. And without that money being left in the banking system, it makes the govt. insolvent. They are doing everything they can to keep money and repatriate money into the US, it's because the country is broke and the creditors (for now) and the US are playing extend and pretend.

Here's something else that needs to be asked. What countries have enough money to keep lending billions and billions of dollars to us instead of using those billions to make their country better or enriched? Thats all they do, is to make a few hundred billion in a year and then take half or more to be invested in T-bonds for a pittance in interest. Everybody is coming to the realization that it's approaching the time for this beast to be put to bed. For our economy to be done with so a new one can be formed. I feel sorry for the US because once our economy implodes and the western banking system too, we will be an impoverished 3rd world nation with enclaves of the rich and powerful (You know, like almost all third world countries). And all those promises SS, Medicare, State Federal and private pensions won't be honored. People will go nuts and laws will be inacted in order to keep some semblence of control, but it won't work.

We are going down the path of other empires in history, and I believe that the ones in the know are tuned to it but like with everything they can't control or stop it. It would be like being on the bridge of the Titanic and seeing the iceberg 100 feet in front of the ship, you couldn't manouver fast enough to get out of the way. The people and the machinations of this country are the ship. There is no way to convince people or make people take the severe austerity measures, so the only smart thing for the people in the know is to let the bands keep playing and the people keep playing and find you an exit off the ship to ride out the sinking.

original.antiwar.com...

[edit on 30-3-2010 by hoghead cheese]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 07:03 PM
link   
There is hope my friends. There is hope.

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain."

Currency and debt are just imaginary things. Look into your areas for places that are implementing gold and silver trade. They are springing up everywhere. You know the reason why you have been seeing all of the commercials all the debt elimination etc etc etc.

There is hope. Do NOT despair.

Just imagine, if you did not have to pay Income taxes, SS taxes, Medicare Taxes. Just imagine if everyone that needed these things were offered a bailout. Just imagine if the property you rent through property taxes, was given to you through allodial title and you never had to pay property taxes again. Just imagine if all debts private and public were wiped from the slate. Imagine that fiat money was to be abolished and only true, commodity based currency that could not be manipulated was the law of the day. Just imagine if you were not arrested for statutes that are not Constitutional. Just imagine if the corporate stranglehold on the world was removed?

I have a dream.

Would this inspire you?

[edit on 3/30/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 07:14 PM
link   
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Here we go again. People making assumptions. I'm not a Republican and Progressives have no Party either. Take your blinders off and you will see that I'm equally critical of both parties and in particular progressives regardless of Party.

If you don't think that hyper-inflation is right around the corner, you have a huge surprise coming shortly. I can hear the printing presses whirring to life the moment the interest rates start to climb. One fuels the other. It does not matter who is in power. The only reason I mentioned Carter is he was in fact in power when this happened last time and he is in fact a hard core Progressive. I doubt many in the Democratic Party agree with him much.

Since Independents now outnumber the R's and the D's, you would be wise to assume you are talking to an Independent unless they say otherwise.

The phone number for the GOP is 202.863.8500. Perhaps you can find a Republican there to flame? Go for it!

Afterward, name one time in recorded history any nation spent itself into prosperity? Just one time? Show one example where a Progressive system succeeded? Just one?

Whenever I run into a person stuck on the Donkey / Elephant Merry-Go-Round, I send them HERE for a dose of reality.

We The People (the United States of America) are broke. There is no more money and our creditors are getting ready to cancel our credit cards. This is for real. It's not opinion.

Link One.
LINK TWO

I chose MSNBC and NPR for your benefit.

I don't think they will downgrade the US credit rating right away, but they are trying to warn us.

When nobody is willing to finance our debt any longer, it leaves one option. You print money fast, lowering its value so you can make the interest payments, pay obligations and not default, then you raise interest rates quickly to fend off inflation, but it never works.

Unfunded Liabilities are over 108 Trillion. Total Debt is approaching 56 Trillion. Just to pay one citizens monthly share would equal more than the average citizen earns per month. Borrowing more is the right answer


You can rob from the successful to support the un-successful for only so long. Eventually, there are no more rich to steal from. Then the house of cards comes crashing down around us. The USSR would be the best contemporary example. Venezuela will fail shortly I assure you. It always leads to a Dictatorial Government and a two class system. Are you one of the Elite, guaranteed your position? If not, you should study history IMO.

Obama is not going to let you or I live in his place on Martha's Vineyard (metaphor) when he is done. He might let us eat out of his dumpster and deduct it from his taxes, if he pays any.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 07:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Gools
 


I wasn't really interested in a political argument of right vs left but Blaine9155 was wrongfully accussing democrats for a page and a half so naturally I got a little mad....


Again while I was typing


Stop it already. I never blamed the Democrats or the Republicans but if you wish, I blame them both equally. They both spend like drunken sailors and use entitlements to buy votes. They both sell out to Progressives to buy their votes.

You simply can not discuss this topic without discussing the players in the game.

Would it surprise you to know that I consider JFK, MLK, Reagan and Ghandi to be four of the greatest men in modern history. 3 Democrats and 1 Republican.

I think the problem is you have fallen into the trap of thinking there are only two sides to a coin, when in fact there are many facets to each side and the edge.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 07:26 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


Pssst? What are you on? Got one for everybody



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Shhhh, I had an epiphany in more ways than one.


Order through chaos, but who's order will prevail?

Everyone knows the move toward less government and less corruption has almost come to a head. We are not the only ones monitoring the actions of our government.

There are solutions postulated by many people. The government has individuals in it. They are not all evil and corrupt.

In my eyes there are as many good in our world as bad. The bad does not always win. Sometimes the good prevails and everyone knows, one cannot always contain chaos. One can only push it the way you want it to go. I use to run one job site where at times there was over 500 people on site. It was definition of chaos. If someone purposefully tried to mess up the direction, than I would have to counter act those actions. The more actions, the more reactions, etc etc etc.

We are nearing the critical mass of chaos in the world. Who's order will it be pushed toward?

That is the million gold coin question.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:28 PM
link   
Unless there is a war, or some other major catastrophe, we are doomed. There isn't enough time for elections to cure what ails us. The elites are doing exactly what they have been planning for a long time. The middle class is rapidly dissapearing. very soon, it will be 5% of the population, with 99% of the money.

if you can get out of debt and ride it out, you might stand a chance. As far as I'm concerned, it's batten down the hatches, and wait for the riots to begin. It's coming folks, as soon as some of the states run out of unemployment money, and cut off other entitlements. Why do you think the government keeps extending benefits?? They know that;s the only thing keeping the citizens from going balistic.

Reality will come about soon enough, then the fun wuill start. just wait till people try to get their money out of the bank, and the banks are closed when they get there. It's coming folks. get it while you can, cause it won't be there much longer.

if you think the government is going to let $35 trillion dollars in private 401k's sit there and not take it, you deserve what you get. You have been warned.
Lastly, don't listen to what the government says, watch what they do. Actions speaks louder than words. Just keep telling yourself, "the government is here to help us".



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

You still haven't explained what the OP meant when he/she said "Get out of debt now... if you remember the late 70's early 80's you'll know what I mean" is referring to. That's what I asked him.



Can't speak for the OP, but I can relate what happened.

That was a horrible time in our history under a rabid Progressive President named Carter at the worst possible time.

As is always the case throughout history, Progressives when they get some power take actions that destroy economies. We had good little Progressives running around telling us all that we were being robbed by the big oil companies and consumer advocates coming out of the woodwork. Buying and spending tanked and companies went belly up overnight.

I was working for various Oil Companies and Industrial Construction and Mining outfits. These companies were pressured by lying politicians like Carter and publicity hounds like Nader to keep prices artificially low. So low that they could not pay for new drilling or development of new products which is a suicide mission.

On top of that, Progressive policies always lead to deep debt, unemployment as the companies run out of disposable cash and a devaluation of the dollar. As the debt is piling up, there comes a point were the only way out is inflation to bring the value of the dollar down.

We are now reaching that point again. The only way to dig out of all this money printing and drunken spending by the Progressives is to let the inflation Genie out of the bottle. Soon you will start to hear regular reports of the interest rates going up. Prices on all goods and services will start to climb quickly. What your dollar would buy today, it will take two to buy tomorrow. You might think you have enough, but if prices double and your income does not go up at all, do you?



I understand... all valid points. Of course, a wise man builds his house upon the rock.

That sounds like a nice platitude, but I am a hard core self-reliance, ala emerson proponent. That said, I'm not a survivalist, I do leverage capitalism to help create the reality I desire. I started a company in 2003 with some partners, I still took full time positions elsewhere because I was wagering two bets... one on my startup, and the other on the startup I was working at. Well that one got bought, twice, and both times I was compensated nicely, which allowed me to wipe out the debt from my divorce.

Then 2009 rolled around and I was laid off from the new company. Meanwhile, my other company that I owned had been growing organically, and I just stepped into it... because it had grown to be able to sustain my salary.

Ours is a growth industry like you couldn't believe, well you probably would. We also pretty much own our market. We're not going anywhere... as a matter of fact, the worse it gets, the more people knock on our doors.

But the key point here, is that uncertainty exists... and we are the only ones responsible for our existence...

I wish everyone well on this next class in the school of self-reliance.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:21 PM
link   
Just read your post - agreed with your point of view, but here are a couple of points where I have a slightly different view.


Originally posted by Maxmars

Hopefully the geniuses in the Fed and the rest of monetary manipulation gang can come up with a recipe that won't utterly destroy what remains of our nation.



Ok - I think the plan is to destroy the nation (and the global financial system) , it is basically too perfect to be accident - it has all the marks of careful planning.

If you don't have hard assets - real estate, precious metals - then you should think about it quickly. If you can, then real estate in the right locations is worth looking at now - some places are still set to slide another 20% though IMO.




Perhaps this will be the tipping point, when the people decide with finality, that monetary policy is the domain of our government, and not private enterprise steeped in secrecy.



Monetary policy should NOT be the domain of government, or any other institution for that matter - monetary 'policy' should be driven by market forces, acting on money that is not centrally controlled - specifically gold money, or even locally issued gold certificates (if 100% reserves, and ample cross auditing is done).

Monetary policy should not exist - money supply should be basically fixed, and interest rates should be whatever the lenders need them to be to attract deposits and make attractive loans.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 01:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Amagnon
 




Monetary policy should NOT be the domain of government


ALL, read, ALL, currencies exist via Government Order, ie, Fiat (Command).. there has never been a single currency except substance that has existed outside the controls of Government.

Gold, is a Fiat Currency .. the Government will dictate supply, which dictates buying power, which influences inflation/deflation. Without perpetual growth of material ownership, a vicious cycle of inflation/deflation occurs under Gold/Silver currencies, as has been the economic model for many centuries. For all the Feds faults, there have actually been far fewer periods of economic recession/depression. However, as I have outlined in my own posts on the 3rd page, Economic control OUTSIDE Government, yet Sanctioned BY government is and of its self the ultimate method of corruption .. yes, monetary policy away from uneducated politicians IS A GOOD THING. However, to have our monetary policy dictated by an elite crew of bankers and lawyers who never face political repercussion for their actions invites corruption on the notion they can do no wrong.. ultimately under a Republic the best method of doing such a thing is to have singularly the Treasury handle ALL financial matters, regarding everything the Federal Reserve does.. yes, it's outside political sphere of influence, yet not detached from direct government oversight and accountability. "Local" gold/silver backed currencies proved a complete and utter disaster prior, during, and briefly after the civil war..

Essentially.. it's not our method of generating the value of our currency that is the problem.. it's WHO we let place it's value.. and more importantly, the clandestine nature of our financial masters. If we used the same form of currency we have today, perhaps bringing back Gold Convertibility, (even though we own no gold) just without the Federal Reserve and the Keynesian Logic, we would be far better off. Would wouldn't have such extreme Boom Bust cycles anyways.. but people do love those boom years..



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 02:48 AM
link   
This may not be the right thread for this,but back after the bailouts started,I began looking into the IMF and the WTO,and did not like the connections I was making.

Those "austerity" measures they can make and the demands of a country to pay back debts by curtailing all social spending,etc...it could be just around the corner.

I don't have my notes handy,but it's something to watch,IMO.

New World Order,here we come....



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 04:07 AM
link   
reply to post by On the Edge
 


The IMF is directly funded by the United States.. the IMF could never loan to the US then demand repayment.. well actually I guess that's the same cycle the Fed Reserve uses.. lol .. but still, it wouldn't make much sense. Congress could shut the IMF down any time they wanted. It's one reason I thought it was funny when we had all those threads about a IMF One World Currency .. because their loans are in a special IMF Currency.. which really is a combination of the Euro, Pound, Dollar and Yen. So don't go worrying to much.. in order for us to drastically curtail spending countries are going to have to stop buying our debt.

Oh wait, what was the title of the thread?



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 05:44 AM
link   
I guess this is what I was trying to say!



...most Americans didn't create those debts! WHY should we pay? Because the looting of America demands it! Because the bankers have so much power, thats why! The obvious endgame is that after assuming so much debt, not only would all social programs be put on hold indefinitely, eventually the US would eventually default on the deficit, forcing the US into IMF austerity programs.

Programs like Social Security and Medicare typically are eliminated in these national default situations.

Is the goal to force the US into the same kinds of IMF austerity programs that have caused riots in so many other nations?

Certainly, the US, which has been at the lead in pushing for these measures elsewhere, would not be able to escape having its own medicine applied to it.

Inquiring minds want to know.

en.wikipedia.org...

"In economics, austerity is when a national government reduces its spending in order to pay back creditors. Austerity is usually required when a government's fiscal deficit spending is felt to be unsustainable.

Development projects, welfare programs and other social spending are common areas of spending for cuts. In many countries, austerity measures have been associated with short-term standard of living declines until economic conditions improved once fiscal balance was achieved (such as in the United Kingdom under Margaret Thatcher, Canada under Jean Chrétien, and Spain under González).

Private banks, or institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), may require that a country pursues an 'austerity policy' if it wants to re-finance loans that are about to come due. The government may be asked to stop issuing subsidies or to otherwise reduce public spending. When the IMF requires such a policy, the terms are known as 'IMF conditionalities'.

Austerity programs are frequently controversial, as they impact the poorest segments of the population and often lead to a wider separation between the rich and poor. In many situations, austerity programs are imposed on countries that were previously under dictatorial regimes, leading to criticism that populations are forced to repay the debts of their oppressors.
mydd.com...



new topics

top topics



 
53
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join