Exclusive / Despite row, U.S. and Israel sign massive arms deal

Exclusive / Despite row, U.S. and Israel sign massive arms deal

www.haaretz.com

According to the deal, Israel will purchase three new Hercules C-130J airplanes. The deal for the three aircrafts, designed by Lockheed Martin, is worth roughly a quarter billion dollars. Each aircraft costs $70 million.

The aircrafts were manufactured specifically for Israeli needs, and include a large number of systems produced by Israel's defense industry.
Advertisement

The deal will be covered by American foreign assistance funds.

The Pentagon will issue a formal announ

(visit the link for the full news article)

So for the last week we saw alot of flip flopping regarding U.S. and Israeli ties, but behind closed doors YOU are paying for?

Give Israel the money so they can buy our planes?
Is this Obama's next form of a stimulus package?

The state that spies on the U.S. is being treated a million times better than the american middle class. But if America is a democracy shouldn't voters have a say in this?
This is quite alot of money here isn't it?

The aircrafts were manufactured specifically for Israeli needs

I think this means that this has been in the pipeline for quite some time now doesn't it?

What the hell is happening in Washington?
Almost 300 congressmen show slave-like support for Israel
Obama gives 30Billion dollars donation to Israel
Isn't that enough?
30BN? Israel has a very small population, where is all of this money going?

And now this?

America is an ally of Israel, fine!
But is Israel an ally of America?

Doesn't this just boil your blood?

What was with the whole puppet show the last 2 weeks or so?

www.haaretz.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by ModernAcademia

What the hell is happening in Washington?
Almost 300 congressmen show slave-like support for Israel
Obama gives 30Billion dollars donation to Israel
Isn't that enough?
30BN? Israel has a very small population, where is all of this money going?

And now this?

America is an ally of Israel, fine!
But is Israel an ally of America?

Doesn't this just boil your blood?

What was with the whole puppet show the last 2 weeks or so?

There's not much to say. Your questions imply the only logical response, "madness!". I have noticed though that just the simple fact of Obama taking a stand on illegal settlements and Jewish only building in Palestinian East Jerusalem, has gotten some people to actually think.

On a radio show I listen to, some people who I'm used to hearing as unthinkingly supporting the Jewish 'right' to do whatever they choose, there is actually some thought creeping in. Like maybe there is a possibility that some acts aren't quite legal no matter who does them, and maybe, just maybe, illegal acts should be opposed.

It's an opening for thought. POTUS is a big bully pulpit. If only all his positions were similar to mine, then maybe rational thought would have a chance to at least be heard.

I have a serious question and I'm not trying to imply racism here, so please don't go down that path.

But what's the problem that people here on ATS seem to have regarding Israel? Seems like whenever the U.S. makes a deal with them or when we enter into talks or negotiations or something we see a lot of heated posts here on ATS about how Israel are the "evil overlords". What's with all of that?

Funny, the U.S. aid to Israel is in the billions, so we are buying our own stuff.

Originally posted by sos37
Seems like whenever the U.S. makes a deal with them or when we enter into talks or negotiations or something we see a lot of heated posts here on ATS about how Israel are the "evil overlords". What's with all of that?

Well I think that's a very unfair analysis there bro.

Isn't america supposed to take care of americans first and foremost?
Isn't america a democracy? Where was the vote to give Israel these Billion Dollar items for free?

Tell me which other country on the face of this planet subsidizes everything that another state in another continent is doing?

Btw, the OP was more of a comment on the U.S. giving U.S. money away more than it was on Israel, but it was partially about Israel too yes but more about the U.S.

Plus theses jets will also be used for acts of war that most americans here would condemn.

I don't really have a problem with this as long as the Israelis leave them cargo ships and don't outfit them like the AC-130H Specter or the AC-130U Spooky.

Originally posted by sos37
I have a serious question and I'm not trying to imply racism here, so please don't go down that path.

But what's the problem that people here on ATS seem to have regarding Israel? Seems like whenever the U.S. makes a deal with them or when we enter into talks or negotiations or something we see a lot of heated posts here on ATS about how Israel are the "evil overlords". What's with all of that?

I don't know what is wrong with half the people on here.

Israel and Egypt both get about the same amount of aid.

Iraq and Afghanistan get more than Israel.

Pakistan gets about half of what Israel gets.

People fail to understand that the US has been making powerplays since we invaded Mexico in 1848. The countries we give aid to are client states involved in our power plays.

reply to post by sos37


To suggest that also suggests we should have supported Hitler.
At this point, there is virtually no difference between the alleged Holocaust and the present day Holocaust against the Palestinians. Maybe you don't understand that yet. Maybe you believe the Khazars are Hebrews.

reply to post by sos37

But what's the problem that people here on ATS seem to have regarding Israel? Seems like whenever the U.S. makes a deal with them or when we enter into talks or negotiations or something we see a lot of heated posts here on ATS about how Israel are the "evil overlords". What's with all of that?

I don't think the current OP subscribes to the "evil overlord" theory. There's all kinds of people on ATS. It's natural for people to try for some understandable framework to explain what they see happening. Some find it easiest with "the evil overlord" theory, because that's what it looks like to them.

Knowing the history helps. Knowing that there are no people of whom it is right and proper to consider "dogs without rights" helps. Setting foreign policy based on sound reasoning would help. Unfortunately, with regards to US policy toward the so-called Jewish state of Israel, superstition seems to have the greatest bearing. This is quite aggravating to people who don't particularly wish to be ruled by superstition. Doubly aggravating when they realize that they are not consulted at all about their personal opinions, and therefore they have no control in a matter which shows every potential of effecting their lives in a grave way.

Some people lash out from a deep gut level at what can only be seen as absurd, especially if that absurdity can end up killing them. I hope that answers the question of why.

Originally posted by TSawyer
reply to post by sos37

 

To suggest that also suggests we should have supported Hitler.
At this point, there is virtually no difference between the alleged Holocaust and the present day Holocaust against the Palestinians. Maybe you don't understand that yet. Maybe you believe the Khazars are Hebrews.

That is a load of nonsense.

If Israel treated the Palestinians like the Nazis treated Jews, the Palestinians would all be dead.

And the Khazar mess is just plain ignorant.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


That's not true. Egypt gets about two billion annually while Israel gets approximately three billion. The only reason that Egypt received so much aid is Israeli pressure. This has been a very effective strategy as Egypt is not hostile any longer to Israel... for the time being. Iraq and Afghanistan are not good examples. These countries are in the aftermath of wars and therefore not comparable situations.

Ontopic: I don't see the problem of this deal. It would be very radical to block all military sales to Israel and this is about cargo aircrafts, not about offensive weaponry. If I am not mistaken, Obama has blocked sales of offensive weapons such as AH-64s.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Israel and Egypt both get about the same amount of aid.

Pshhhhh
Egypt gets about 30% of what Israel gets off the Oslo Bribe ALONE!
that does NOT include the 30BN Obama is giving Israel that he decided to give just recently and the constant burts of free weaponwry.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
You are WAY OFF!


Iraq and Afghanistan get more than Israel.

Untrue and Untrue

I think again you are ONLY thinking of the Oslo Accord

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
People fail to understand that the US has been making powerplays since we invaded Mexico in 1848. The countries we give aid to are client states involved in our power plays.

Powerplays?
So sending billions and billions of Dollars to Israel which they use to 360 back into the U.S. through Aipac in order to keep a stranglehold on U.S. congressmen and senators is what you call a powerplay?

Wow!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well, again, please don't take my question as criticism of your post. It wasn't intended as such.

Originally posted by TSawyer
reply to post by sos37

 

To suggest that also suggests we should have supported Hitler.
At this point, there is virtually no difference between the alleged Holocaust and the present day Holocaust against the Palestinians. Maybe you don't understand that yet. Maybe you believe the Khazars are Hebrews.

Wait, to suggest what? I'm not criticising Israel at all or the OP. I firmly believe in history, that the holocaust was real, that allied soldiers liberated scores of abused prisoners from death camps during WWII. And at no time will I ever post that anyone should have supported Hitler, Moussolini, etc. - those were madmen bent on enforcing their own twisted agendas and exterminating anyone who resisted.

But anytime someone makes a post on ATS regarding any type of negotiation or deal, we're bound to see a few posts where people imply that Israel is an evil nation and the U.S. kow-tows to them. I'm wondering what drives that. Is it the "take care of America first" philosophy? If so, I can understand the point of view, though if one were to be upset about ties with U.S. and Israel it seems that they would also be upset with ties the U.S. had with any foreign nation. Should we be a xenophobic nation? I don't think so - especially right now. I think the U.S. needs all the friends it can get considering what might be coming.


[edit on 29-3-2010 by sos37]

Obama's form of transparency is worse than politicians that just outright lie in my opinion! At least they don't pretend they are on your side!

What Obama giveth with one hand he taketh back two-fold with the other!

I have said that in other threads regarding different topics concerning Obama's decisions, and once again it still holds true.

On one hand, he:

-- threatens to abstain from the UN vote concerning East Jerusalem
-- walks out on Netahanyu as a show that he is serious regarding settlements
-- slaps Israel upside the head for the announcement of settlements at the end of Biden's visit
-- claims we are allies of Israel but will not tolerate their obstruction to the peace process which is paramount to a stable Middle East
-- cancels / delays shipment of Bunker Busters to Israel as punishment for violating the no settlements agreement

On the other hand:

-- he uses taxpayer funds to send $250 million worth of aircraft to Israel


We should all start writing letters to the White House that simply reads:

Dear Mr. President:

Remember me?

I am an American and I need your help. Perhaps you have forgotten that I hired you to take care of me and continue to pay your salary despite the fact that you have left me out in the cold, with no job, no home, and in dire need of food, money, and employment.

Do you think that you could spare some time for me?
I would appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Your Employer
a.k.a. An American Citizen

[edit on 29-3-2010 by lpowell0627]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


So you don't think were using Israel?

We have used Israel since day one. Iran was our big "ally" in the region until the Shah fell.

Once Iraq is firmly on its feet, we will have another client state to project influence through. Iraq's military is already larger than Israel's and continuing to grow. We will fund, train, and supply Iraq until it is just as powerful as it was under Saddam.

Originally posted by sos37
though if one were to be upset about ties with U.S. and Israel it seems that they would also be upset with ties the U.S. had with any foreign nation. Should we be a xenophobic nation?

This is extremism.
Involve yourself in the business of foreign nations or be xenophobic.
That's your choice, either one extreme or the other extreme.

I don't get that, what about just sensible foreign policies?
How about sensible non-interventionism, no more isolationist embargoes, be friends with everyone, no propping up govts., no destabalizing countries refusing to be puppets and just set examples of democracy rather than invade for the purpose of democracy?

I mean where's the middle ground there bud?

reply to post by sos37

But what's the problem that people here on ATS seem to have regarding Israel? Seems like whenever the U.S. makes a deal with them or when we enter into talks or negotiations or something we see a lot of heated posts here on ATS about how Israel are the "evil overlords". What's with all of that?

It has nothing to do with racism, at least not on my side.

Why is the US donating so much money to Israel while there are so many problems at home? Why do schoold get closed down due to budgetcuts while 30 Billion will flow to Israel over the next 10 years?

Maybe you should ask the government why Israel is so "special"...

BTW, let's not overlook the extreme profit for Lockheed Martin here. Surely they have a spoon in the pot, stirring up the soup in their favour.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I don't know what is wrong with half the people on here.

Israel and Egypt both get about the same amount of aid.

Iraq and Afghanistan get more than Israel.

Pakistan gets about half of what Israel gets.

People fail to understand that the US has been making powerplays since we invaded Mexico in 1848. The countries we give aid to are client states involved in our power plays.

Iraq and afganistan get more money? the United states caused the mess in the two countries and now is paying the costs, so how can you compare a country having to spend money on two wars and occupation

to Israel which unlike Egypt (i will give you pakistan as it and india seem to love to split a country in 2) has more UN resolutions against it then any other country, which also likes to laugh at UN laws but use it when it favers it.

might be one reason why people are more hard on that state